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FPS limiters and Track-IR performance


bandit648

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nahhh 59 is crap imho....60 is the way to go

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This is how I fixed the jittery trackir on my comp. These settings may or may not work for you, but seeing most of you guys have tried so many ways to fix the problem, you might as well try one more..

 

Graphics.lua=default

 

Nvidia Control Panel:

GSYNC selected only for fullscreen mode

 

NVCP (program settings for dcs.exe)

Pre-rendered frames ahead = 1

Display = G-SYNC

VSYNC = Use application setting

Power mode = Maximum power

Refresh rate = Maximum available (=144 on my Asus ROG PG279Q)

 

In-game settings:

Disable Aero Interface = unchecked

VSYNC = unchecked

Fullscreen = checked

 

CPU affinity (set with Process Lasso)

DCS.exe

Single threaded performance mode (=disable HT cores)

I/O priority = high

 

Trackir.exe = all cores used / no changes

---

Do NOT left alt+enter after entering the cockpit. This is not necessary anymore and was fixed some time ago.

 

There is a super easy way to confirm whether you need to alt+enter or not:

If you have a keyboard with sound volume control wheel, roll it up or down a bit after entering the cockpit. If you see a volume indicator/bar pop up on your screen -> alt+enter to enter true fullscreen.

 

With my settings, the game has launched in true fullscreen mode (in-cockpit) for some time now. But this was not the case for years, so ED did something to fix this. Ofcourse, if you alt-tab while gaming, you have to alt+enter after getting back to cockpit. Again, volume indicator is your friend. If you don't see it, you are 100% in fullscreen mode.


Edited by cabzi

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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I'll chime in

 

I pursued this issue in 2016 -

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=174828

https://forums.naturalpoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=13991

 

I have opened tickets with ED and NaturalPoint, both of which ended up with one side pointing the finger at the other, or in the case of NaturalPoint, throwing it in the too hard basket.

 

After many months of independent testing, I strangely (not really) arrived at the same conclusion as Goa (and others). In fact, reading this thread for the first time today, made me chuckle, somewhat painfully, as we are all clearly in the same boat. The problem is repeatable, the "fixes" are the same, and now with more people buying fast monitors, we are getting more discussion.

 

I will say this though - despite the problem being repeatable in all TrackIR games, it seems to align itself with how a given game integrates their view system, in that I get a similar but different stutter depending on the game. DCS has had similar issues with its mouse look functionality, also stuttering in the past. I can't help feel that despite the 120hz sensor limitation, its also about how ED are integrating it.

 

Perhaps we can seek some clarification in this thread about the future prospects of resolving this issue. I mean, I don't see 60hz monitors as being the norm for simmers down the line, and vsync may very well have its day. I would imagine if we are vocal enough, we can at least get this on the radar.

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All I'm saying is that the problem is not just "fixable" but totally fixable. My trackir in DCS and other supported games is now smooth as the baby's bottom.

 

In the end, after many hours of trying to get the problem sorted out, I can't really blame ED or Natural Point on this. There is an endless amount of different hardware, software and other end-user configurations.

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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Cabzi, we have known about those solutions for some time now. That doesn’t resolve the issue, because the issue is related to an interaction between frame rate and the refresh rate of the TrackIR camera. A lot of your settings improve the problem when combined with a stable frame rate of 60 or 120, which is not possible to maintain perfectly - thus, stutter.

| Windows 10 | I7 4790K @ 4.4ghz | Asus PG348Q | Asus Strix 1080TI | 16GB Corsair Vengeance 2400 DDR3 | Asrock Fatal1ty Z97 | Samsung EVO 850 500GB (x2) | SanDisk 240GB Extreme Pro | Coolermaster Vanguard S 650Watt 80+ | Fractal Design R4 | VirPil T-50 | MFG Crosswind Graphite | KW-908 JetSeat Sim Edition | TrackIR 5 |

 

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Cabzi, we have known about those solutions for some time now. That doesn’t resolve the issue, because the issue is related to an interaction between frame rate and the refresh rate of the TrackIR camera. A lot of your settings improve the problem when combined with a stable frame rate of 60 or 120, which is not possible to maintain perfectly - thus, stutter.

 

Ok, I think I understand your point of view now. But, I can't agree with the statement that trackir needs to run with stable 60 or 120 fps to get stutter-free experience. I get 60-70 fps sitting in the Hornet looking straight ahead. If I look up to the sky, my fps jumps to 100-110 fps. I don't know what gives, but my trackir is stutter-free even the fps fluctuates by a large margin. *shrug*

 

Anyway, just wanted to share my view on the matter and correct the wrongly stated fact about "always leftalt + enter".


Edited by cabzi

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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This is how I fixed the jittery trackir on my comp. These settings may or may not work for you, but seeing most of you guys have tried so many ways to fix the problem, you might as well try one more..

 

Graphics.lua=default

 

Nvidia Control Panel:

GSYNC selected only for fullscreen mode

 

NVCP (program settings for dcs.exe)

Pre-rendered frames ahead = 1

Display = G-SYNC

VSYNC = Use application setting

Power mode = Maximum power

Refresh rate = Maximum available (=144 on my Asus ROG PG279Q)

 

In-game settings:

Disable Aero Interface = unchecked

VSYNC = unchecked

Fullscreen = checked

 

CPU affinity (set with Process Lasso)

DCS.exe

Single threaded performance mode (=disable HT cores)

I/O priority = high

 

Trackir.exe = all cores used / no changes

---

Do NOT left alt+enter after entering the cockpit. This is not necessary anymore and was fixed some time ago.

 

There is a super easy way to confirm whether you need to alt+enter or not:

If you have a keyboard with sound volume control wheel, roll it up or down a bit after entering the cockpit. If you see a volume indicator/bar pop up on your screen -> alt+enter to enter true fullscreen.

 

With my settings, the game has launched in true fullscreen mode (in-cockpit) for some time now. But this was not the case for years, so ED did something to fix this. Ofcourse, if you alt-tab while gaming, you have to alt+enter after getting back to cockpit. Again, volume indicator is your friend. If you don't see it, you are 100% in fullscreen mode.

 

 

We only differ in "disable Windows Aero", that I had always checked, for years.

 

If that fixes the stutter on my TiR beyond 60fps I am kicking my own a$$. Will try and see.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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I had to try it out immediately:joystick:

 

 

This is all very personal perception bound, as I i.e. needed Goa's efforts to get me even recognizing I had that issue 1st. place. Then, after I "really" saw it, it didnt let me loose.

Stutter, OMG, STUTTER grhhhhh. Even that I hardly look that much left or right with that much time for paying attention to stutter...from then on I noticed it.

 

Well, last time with Goa, I had a much newer driver installed, DCS had several updates digested since we heavily discussed this..and for whatever reason, the symptom, aka stutter L + R when moving the head thereby, was almost gone, or totally gone, without 60fps lock, ehhh ?

 

I tried now even with Aero disable unchecked and it looked not worse, haha, no, I cant really say it differs from 60 locked anymore.

 

I am puzzled :cry:

 

Goa ? :huh:

 

actually that makes me happy as those fps were nice :D I think with my settings and a 2080ti it would even hover slightly above 120fps..LoL


Edited by BitMaster

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I had to try it out immediately:joystick:

 

 

This is all very personal perception bound, as I i.e. needed Goa's efforts to get me even recognizing I had that issue 1st. place. Then, after I "really" saw it, it didnt let me loose.

Stutter, OMG, STUTTER grhhhhh. Even that I hardly look that much left or right with that much time for paying attention to stutter...from then on I noticed it.

 

Well, last time with Goa, I had a much newer driver installed, DCS had several updates digested since we heavily discussed this..and for whatever reason, the symptom, aka stutter L + R when moving the head thereby, was almost gone, or totally gone, without 60fps lock, ehhh ?

 

I tried now even with Aero disable unchecked and it looked not worse, haha, no, I cant really say it differs from 60 locked anymore.

 

I am puzzled :cry:

 

Goa ? :huh:

 

actually that makes me happy as those fps were nice :D I think with my settings and a 2080ti it would even hover slightly above 120fps..LoL

 

 

hey mate...I will give it a try but honestly I think the jittery will be still there...unless fps are capped!!

 

 

edit: tried ou as cabzi suggested....its even worse than having the fps capped as 60...plus as per cabzi' instruction he disabled vsync completely...which is a pain in the ass honestyly......

there is no cure for this expect having fps set at max 60:)


Edited by Goa

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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hey mate...I will give it a try but honestly I think the jittery will be still there...unless fps are capped!!

 

edit: tried ou as cabzi suggested....its even worse than having the fps capped as 60...plus as per cabzi' instruction he disabled vsync completely...which is a pain in the ass honestyly......

there is no cure for this expect having fps set at max 60:)

 

If you are using a GSYNC monitor you should never enable VSYNC from ingame settings:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/270672/how-to-enable-optimize-and-tweak-nvidia-g-sync/

In short, the rule is: Leave VSync enabled in the NVIDIA Control Panel, but disable it from within games. Only disable it for an individual games in the NVIDIA Control Panel if you really need to reduce input latency as much as possible.

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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I flew unlocked last night, also Vsync and Aero unchecked...and it was smooth to me.

 

I admit, my smooth might not be your smooth, but it was in no way as bad as it was months ago.

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I flew unlocked last night, also Vsync and Aero unchecked...and it was smooth to me.

 

I admit, my smooth might not be your smooth, but it was in no way as bad as it was months ago.

 

I agree with Goa... no change in smoothness in latest update for me. I remain capped at 60 fps :thumbup::thumbup:

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Strange, imho mine was way way better, I'd even say smooth, and I looked and looked for the jitter and microstutter.

 

Dunno what to say...we will see

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Strange, imho mine was way way better, I'd even say smooth, and I looked and looked for the jitter and microstutter.

 

Dunno what to say...we will see

 

Have you changed anything in regards to system config or settings?

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

Flight Controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / VKB T-RUDDER MKIV / Cougar MFD Set

DCS Modules: F-14 Tomcat / F/A-18C Hornet / AV-8B NA / F-5E Tiger II / A-10C Warthog / F-16C Viper / UH-1 Huey / LOFC3 / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / P-51D Mustang / WWII Assets Pack / Normandy 1944 / NTTR Map / Persian Gulf Map / Syria Map

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no, just as usual.

 

I need to test again tonight when I come back. Time is my limit here.

 

I made sure its a negative IRQ with MSI v2 and not collide with the standard ones. But I had that before as well.

 

we need to test and see, i dont trust myself with this anymore, all with a grain of salt and 0.5 dioptrin ;)

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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I also use MSI v2 to set negative IRQs.

 

I did a little experiment last night and tried different MaxFPS (graphics.lua) configurations. Other settings were as I posted earlier.

- 180 (default) = no stutter

- 60 = stutter and actual fps dropped from 60-70 fps (in-cockpit) -> 45 fps

- 240 = seemed even better than default 180, but might be placebo

 

After this I tried different TrackIr settings to induce stutter

- Light Filter Threshold = 120 - 150, no noticable effect, no stuttering

- Light Filter Threshold = 30 (min), lots of stuttering

- Light Filter Threshold = 253 (max), lots of stuttering

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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If you are using a GSYNC monitor you should never enable VSYNC from ingame settings:

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/270672/how-to-enable-optimize-and-tweak-nvidia-g-sync/

In short, the rule is: Leave VSync enabled in the NVIDIA Control Panel, but disable it from within games. Only disable it for an individual games in the NVIDIA Control Panel if you really need to reduce input latency as much as possible.

 

 

EMH....dude, with all due respect I read hundreds of threads and pages about gsync and vysnc...and you have no idea about what you're talkign about.

 

 

Gsync always work in conjuction with vsync..

 

 

following is the best gsync forum in the world where hundreds of scientific and proper tests have been carried out to check gsync beahaviour, input lag, vsync, fps framtetime, etc etc etc etc....

 

 

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

 

 

and the howtogeek page you posted....well let me put it this way : "it's complete garbage".


Edited by Goa

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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EMH....dude, with all due respect I read hundreds of threads and pages about gsync and vysnc...and you have no idea about what you're talkign about.

 

 

Gsync always work in conjuction with vsync..

 

 

following is the best gsync forum in the world where hundreds of scientific and proper tests have been carried out to check gsync beahaviour, input lag, vsync, fps framtetime, etc etc etc etc....

 

 

https://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/

 

 

and the howtogeek page you posted....well let me put it this way : "it's complete garbage".

 

Maybe you should read more carefully and try to understand what you read. I never said you can't use NVCP vsync with gsync. I said you should never enable vsync from INGAME settings. Howtogeek and Blurbuster articles explain the very same thing (hint: page 14, Blurbusters article).

 

If I have to keep correcting your writings at this pace, could it be, that maybe it is you, who don't have a clue?

 

Besides, last time I checked, I am not the one with jittery/stuttery trackir problems..

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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Maybe you should read more carefully and try to understand what you read. I never said you can't use NVCP vsync with gsync. I said you should never enable vsync from INGAME settings. Howtogeek and Blurbuster articles explain the very same thing (hint: page 14, Blurbusters article).

 

If I have to keep correcting your writings at this pace, could it be, that maybe it is you, who don't have a clue?

 

Besides, last time I checked, I am not the one with jittery/stuttery trackir problems..

 

 

My apologise

 

 

I read to fast and tought you said never used gsync with vsync, didnt read you meant no vsync in game.

 

 

Anyway I see no different between the 2 options, either you use vsync from nvpanel only or from game only the behaviour of smoothnes looks identical to me.

 

 

Again my apologise for having been so rude against you.

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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My apologise

 

 

I read to fast and tought you said never used gsync with vsync, didnt read you meant no vsync in game.

 

 

Anyway I see no different between the 2 options, either you use vsync from nvpanel only or from game only the behaviour of smoothnes looks identical to me.

 

 

Again my apologise for having been so rude against you.

 

No problem, Goa. Had a frustrating day at work, so I also slashed back unnecessarely strong. Sorry man.

i7-6850K | GTX1080 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 Pro

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Thumbs up to you both:thumbup:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello, I have freesync monitor 75hz which now should work with nvidia gsync, I have GTX1080.

 

 

So I´ve tried it and works nice in caped 75fps but with trackir stutters.

I´ve noticed that trackir is locked at 60fps while the game is running at 75fps.

Locked with RTSS to 75.

When moving my head in track ir software, I see that it isnt very smooth movement, 75hz vs 60fps i guess. So the question is why trackir is locked to 60fps while game runs at 75fps. Second question is, when inside track ir, moving my head at 60fps, I click inside window where the head movement is presented, and start to move my mouse randomly my fps in track ir rise to 75fps and movement of the head become very smooth. If i stop moving mouse it goes back to normal 60fps. How many fps do you have in track ir? Could I have smooth gameplay if trackir would run at 75fps as the game? Why it rises with the movement of the mouse...

 

 

Thank you for your response, and if I wrote something that was said before, I apologize.

 

 

Vlad.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hello Vu733,

TIR is working at 120Hz (camera) so in game, TIR is only smooth at 60fps or 120fps.

If you want to play DCS with TIR, you have to cap DCS at 60 fps or 120fps.

 

On my rig, TIR is smooth between 60 and 62fps.

After many many hours of test, today I cap DCS at 62fps with Nvidia Inspector. In game sometimes fps drop between 61 and 62 (only because of fps capping which is not steady, in fact with no capping, my fps are always above 80fps).

If I cap fps at 60fps, I have little stutter (jittery experience) when fps drop to 59 due to capping which is not steady (59fps during half a second every 2mn when panning view)

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Hello, I have freesync monitor 75hz which now should work with nvidia gsync, I have GTX1080.

 

 

So I´ve tried it and works nice in caped 75fps but with trackir stutters.

I´ve noticed that trackir is locked at 60fps while the game is running at 75fps.

Locked with RTSS to 75.

When moving my head in track ir software, I see that it isnt very smooth movement, 75hz vs 60fps i guess. So the question is why trackir is locked to 60fps while game runs at 75fps. Second question is, when inside track ir, moving my head at 60fps, I click inside window where the head movement is presented, and start to move my mouse randomly my fps in track ir rise to 75fps and movement of the head become very smooth. If i stop moving mouse it goes back to normal 60fps. How many fps do you have in track ir? Could I have smooth gameplay if trackir would run at 75fps as the game? Why it rises with the movement of the mouse...

 

 

Thank you for your response, and if I wrote something that was said before, I apologize.

 

 

Vlad.

 

 

Just cap fps at 60 using msi riva turner or nvidia inspector and you'll be fine :thumbup:

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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