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Black Shark 3?


QuiGon

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Translated: I just wanted to make my own modification of the Ka-50ED.

Those who do not need needles can simply not use them. Also on the servers.

 

Since the Su-25T and Ka-50 are initially not front-line, test aircraft, we can afford to experiment with them.

 

 

 

Was this already know? Doesnt sound good to me atleast. And apparenly ka50 never had iglas as far as ED knows.

Also we will probably hear more info in autumn he said.

 

 

Thanks, Branch. Read the last three pages of that conversation on the Russian boards. I left a message for Chizh requesting longer Ka-52 wing, 3rd rail for igla's, and FLIR be added to the "Ka-50ED". Looks like it will be as I suggested here, and "ticked in" on the "Special" page, right along side things like "Rudder Trim". Anyone else want anything, you might as well ask! :D

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… No third pylon on the Ka-50 though :P

Yes, they never existed. The 3rd pylon appeared only on the Ka-52 of the 4th serial batch, starting with the machine with serial No.04-01 (registration No.RF-91117). The Ka-52 of the 3rd serial batch (helicopters with serial No.03-01÷03-05), as well as earlier ones, not to mention the Ka-50, were produced with 2 pylons.

 

For example, a machine with serial No.02-04 (registration No.RF-95321, tail No.34 yellow):

Russian_Air_Force_Kamov_Ka-52_%2819604206086%29.jpg

 

The machine with serial No.03-03 (registration No.RF-91123, tail No.93 yellow):

216892.jpg

 

 

… We should get a "#42" KA-50 that has the best of life, the universe and everything that all KA50's had in it. With at LEAST 3 wing pylons. On each wing of course...

The Ka-50 with such a tail number never existed. Here are all the board numbers Ka-50, which existed in reality.

Sorry, I don't speak English, so I use Google Translate.

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Thanks, Branch. Read the last three pages of that conversation on the Russian boards. I left a message for Chizh requesting longer Ka-52 wing, 3rd rail for igla's, and FLIR be added to the "Ka-50ED". Looks like it will be as I suggested here, and "ticked in" on the "Special" page, right along side things like "Rudder Trim"ne else want anything, you might as well ask! :D

 

Yes i saw it, hopefully they will do it. But do you mind that the ka50ED never existed? On the Russian forum alot of people dont like that idea. Also ED doesnt know alot about the president s system since its still widely used, Chizh said they have geusses and hypothesses. So i was thinking this is one of the less realsitic updates with made up stuff (igla on ka50).

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Yeah, I like to stay in realism. It's why I don't tick the "Rudder Trim" option on the Special page. Dam thing kicks like a mule sometimes, but it's not realistic. I still haven't even added "trimmer reset", as I know there is not one on the Real Ka-50. However, there may be both of these on one of the prototypes. That's the problem. We just don't know. I still feel the Ka-50 got DUMPED. It appears because of a fight over Generals wanting to continue funding the Mi-28N (because their cousin is in charge of the company making it. ) The Kamov is clearly superior. The Ka-52 was supposed to be the Group Leader for a pack of Ka-50's, but they made far more Ka-52's than they made Ka-50s!

 

 

It's a MESS.

 

 

Again, we don't know what other prototypes were made, all we can see is the end result Ka-52, which is FAR, FAR more modern than that 1990's Ka-50. Now, Fri shows us there are even other cockpits, some with mystery boxes tied on the side of the hud. At least one knowledgeable individual in the Russian forums thinks a certain one was made to launch iglas, and I agree.

 

 

So, all people like me can do, after 11 years of complaining, is throw up our hands, and just make our own, as close to realism as possible. We have to think how it would change if Russia had made a MODERN Ka-50 to match the Modern Ka-52. To me, that would be the longer wing and third rail, FLIR on the ball turret under the Shkval, and Igla's for AA defense.

 

 

We have to do this, because we are coming up against Western AI helicopters that are far superior to the Ka-50 #25, and can blow us out of the sky (Not to mention F-18, F-16, etc, that can pick us off like a fish in a barrel). There are 4 AH-1W's in the Battle.miz mission, and they get me and my wingy everytime. And Apache's are FAR worse. It's not a fair fight. We need a MODERN Russian heli that can take them on. And considering we don't have any Ka-52 to help us, it appears this copter is slated for "Special Missions". So, it needs to be able to REALLY Fight.

 

 

And since were digging into changes into ED, I would like to see better terrain in the maps. Not just a more "Arma" like World, but a more "Crysis" like World. Sorry for the other game names, but I have to compare to something. Just in a few spots in the map, or even on their own small islands. Then we can bring vehicle modules, and FPS into this "World".

 

 

The Modern World is no longer the Cold War. It's a lot more "Special Forces" and "Terrorist Cells" these days. Would be awesome flying a Ka-50 in CAS of an Alpha Team raiding a Castle or Industrial Complex. Complex battles in tight city streets. Enter-able buildings that snipers and A-A Specialists can fire from.

 

 

Hopefully, in the future.


Edited by 3WA
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In real life, it's not always a fair fight.

 

Once we add a mythical/experimental feature to the Ka-50, what's to stop pilots of all other ED modules asking for the same? "The F-15 was once tested with XYZ. Why can't we have XYZ?" Would you like all aircraft to be given their experimental configurations? Where do you draw the line?

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Pretty Lame argument. You know full well the Ka-50 never really left experimental state. A few of a randomly chosen version were pushed out just to fulfill a contract, then the project was DUMPED. There is no doubt what the final F-15, F-16, F-18 state is, as TONS of them were made. Even the Ka-52 seems to have a rather final Version / Block / Whatever. We know that the Apache and Cobra can carry Aim-9L, Sidearm, and Stinger missiles on side rails. The Ka-50, is a mystery. There never was any FINAL product. Only the Ka-52, which has 3rd rail, iglas, and FLIR. Whether the final Ka-50 version would have had RWR, Chaff, Radar, etc., I'll leave to others.

 

 

Anyway, looks like Chiz is saying the Ka-50ED is going to be made (from the Russian forums), since he (and I guess other's in ED) see it as still experimental, and they are just going to try and wrap it up to what should have been a final product. Hopefully, we'll get an AI Ka-52 to head it all up as well. Purportedly, it will be tick off boxes in the Special section of Options, what is allowed on the copter. People can use it, or not, as they see fit.

 

 

After 11 years, I'm just sick of this problem. Nice to see a Final Solution.


Edited by 3WA
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Clearly 3wa you don't understand the modern battlefield as what you have described is simply not viable as most special operation teams operate in hostile countries where low flying air support is simply not available just give up the ghost. I'm a dcs hornet pilot and I want the magical kill everything missile but we work with the tools we have to become smarted on the battlefield not invent stuff to make us have AKA God mode !!!!

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Gonna have to learn to read Russian too, as it seems a lot of stuff is being said in the Russian forum that isn't being said here!

[\quote]

 

I suggest using Google chrome and add Google translate add-on to it, you get parts translated automatically with enough sense to understand most they write there. ;-)

 

 

Sounds like Chizh is just suggesting kind of what I had said. Most of us can't afford over $1000 Hotas systems and VR / Track-IR, so it gets very difficult for us to fly and target at the same time. Then, to worsen it all, we can't even get the shkval to lock up the flying target. So, we need something that can target fast and easy, like an IR-Air to Air missile. Igla. R-73.

 

I would VERY much like to see what came about with that last modernization phase on the Ka-50 though. Looks like it go a whole new cockpit, and so one wonders, what was added.

 

I don't care about IGLAs, I want the contrasts detection system working realistically, so locking it on anything I want that just has contrast. Be it a tree, car, window in building, a airplane, a train wagon or a telephone pole.

 

As long the that works, I can use the Vikhr to engage the air targets that are around me. IGLAs benefit would have been able launch against target that is above, so quick pitch up few seconds to acquire target, lock and launch. And then recover flight and get in new location.

 

But the 15° upward limit in Shkval is the problem against fast movers.

 

But I can always climb up while flying backwards and get extra 15-20° as addition.

 

So sure, IGLAs has benefit, but I am not so interested. Not going to use them ever against helicopters or CAS aircrafts as Vikhr is JAM-proof. Try to use chaff or flare against it....

 

Why Vikhr A-A mode is a must, so fragmentation sleeve is going to be used with proximity fuze!

That is all that want from A-A features update.

 

A another question that I have about the A-A mode in station selection hat, is that if it would automatically select Vikhr and set it to appropriate modes, and the targeting A-A mode button in panel change the Shkval targeting mode so it has inertial targeting instead slaved targeting, that could help.

 

Meaning, the Shkval will move the gate at given direction as slaved, but you don't need to keep pushing hat to get it moving. Instead you control the speed and direction of the gate. So when you see a target moving sideways, you could easily get gate at is speed and just fine tune to get it on and locked.

 

So example you push hat in cyclic to left, longer you press then faster it starts moving, like example 8 degree per second. And you can adjust with hat is speed in degrees per second, but it keeps going to left. Pushing little up and it adds some degrees upward as well, going now to top left direction.

 

As now one needs to try to get the gate at speed, hold the speed and direction. Once hat is released, it just stops.

And the A-A mode doesn't add much inertia that you control well.

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AKA God mode !!!!

 

 

Lol, if you flew the Shark, you would know it is anything BUT "God Mode".

 

 

I want the contrasts detection system working realistically, so locking it on anything I want that just has contrast. Be it a tree, car, window in building, a airplane, a train wagon or a telephone pole.

 

 

THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath. So I'll take the Iglas. Plus, they are good to have when it's really up close, or your surprised coming around a blind corner or such. Much faster than trying to lock with the cannon (Again, I don't trust the EO). Agree that the Vhiker is nice because of it's jam proofing, but it's dependency on the EO makes it worthless.


Edited by 3WA
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I own and fly the black shark


Edited by Coops 5947

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I don't care about IGLAs, I want the contrasts detection system working realistically, so locking it on anything I want that just has contrast. Be it a tree, car, window in building, a airplane, a train wagon or a telephone pole.

 

As long the that works, I can use the Vikhr to engage the air targets that are around me. IGLAs benefit would have been able launch against target that is above, so quick pitch up few seconds to acquire target, lock and launch. And then recover flight and get in new location.

 

But the 15° upward limit in Shkval is the problem against fast movers.

 

But I can always climb up while flying backwards and get extra 15-20° as addition.

 

So sure, IGLAs has benefit, but I am not so interested. Not going to use them ever against helicopters or CAS aircrafts as Vikhr is JAM-proof. Try to use chaff or flare against it....

 

Why Vikhr A-A mode is a must, so fragmentation sleeve is going to be used with proximity fuze!

That is all that want from A-A features update.

 

A another question that I have about the A-A mode in station selection hat, is that if it would automatically select Vikhr and set it to appropriate modes, and the targeting A-A mode button in panel change the Shkval targeting mode so it has inertial targeting instead slaved targeting, that could help.

 

Meaning, the Shkval will move the gate at given direction as slaved, but you don't need to keep pushing hat to get it moving. Instead you control the speed and direction of the gate. So when you see a target moving sideways, you could easily get gate at is speed and just fine tune to get it on and locked.

 

So example you push hat in cyclic to left, longer you press then faster it starts moving, like example 8 degree per second. And you can adjust with hat is speed in degrees per second, but it keeps going to left. Pushing little up and it adds some degrees upward as well, going now to top left direction.

 

As now one needs to try to get the gate at speed, hold the speed and direction. Once hat is released, it just stops.

And the A-A mode doesn't add much inertia that you control well.

 

 

Now we are talking. Absolutely agree with your opinion now. Whatever it takes to make the Shark more realistic is an instant-buy to me.

 

 

Regards



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I don't care about IGLAs, I want the contrasts detection system working realistically, so locking it on anything I want that just has contrast. Be it a tree, car, window in building, a airplane, a train wagon or a telephone pole.

 

 

This is what we really need. It seems like at the moment DCS uses a simplified calculation like, before time HH:MM don't allow lock. After time HH:MM allow lock. Perhaps with HH:MM determined by the time of year. For this reason at dusk and dawn it's impossible to lock targets even when you have clear contrast on the shkval.

 

This, and area of affect for HE and fragmentation so we don't need to get a direct hit to inflict damage on soft and lightly armoured targets. Just these changes alone would make the aircraft more potent.


Edited by martinistripes

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Several posters have mentioned several times.

KA-50 clearly left "experimental stage"

There are 15 - 16 examples in service today.

Plus possibly orders by India for over 300 Helicopters, as I pointed out earlier.

 

 

 

The fact that an airframe keeps getting updated is not unique.

You dont have to look further than Every other Military equipment ever to see that things keeps getting updated. That doesnt mean it's in an "experimental stage"

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Pretty Lame argument.

 

 

You know full well the Ka-50 never really left experimental state. A few of a randomly chosen version were pushed out just to fulfill a contract, then the project was DUMPED. There is no doubt what the final F-15, F-16, F-18 state is, as TONS of them were made. Even the Ka-52 seems to have a rather final Version / Block / Whatever. We know that the Apache and Cobra can carry Aim-9L, Sidearm, and Stinger missiles on side rails. The Ka-50, is a mystery. There never was any FINAL product. Only the Ka-52, which has 3rd rail, iglas, and FLIR. Whether the final Ka-50 version would have had RWR, Chaff, Radar, etc., I'll leave to others.

 

 

Anyway, looks like Chiz is saying the Ka-50ED is going to be made (from the Russian forums), since he (and I guess other's in ED) see it as still experimental, and they are just going to try and wrap it up to what should have been a final product. Hopefully, we'll get an AI Ka-52 to head it all up as well. Purportedly, it will be tick off boxes in the Special section of Options, what is allowed on the copter. People can use it, or not, as they see fit.

 

 

After 11 years, I'm just sick of this problem. Nice to see a Final Solution.

 

 

:huh::megalol:

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ED quote or didn't happen

 

It's in the Russian forum. Chizh confirmed 3 pylons and Igla. Unfortunately, he also said no FLIR is planned at this time. So far, it is just President-S, 3 pylons, and Igla. He didn't say if larger wing or not.

 

 

REALLY would like to see the EO Contrast lock fixed. I'm guessing were getting the Igla's because it's something they can't do quickly. Or maybe don't plan on doing.

 

 

R-73 not being implemented, which I'm glad, because I thought that un-realistic, for the same reason Chizh points out.

 

 

It's on this page, near the bottom. Use Google or Yandex Translate to read.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=242082&page=12

 

 

And the dev are more active on the Russian forums, atleast Chizh is.

 

Yeah, we need to really start looking at the Russian side of the forums. Seems that's where all the stuffs being debated and cooked up.

 

I've learned, the trick to making a Russian post that the Ruskies can actually read, is first make a whole sentence, paragraph, etc in Yandex translate. Now copy it to notepad or some like program, then get Yandex Translate to translate it to English. You'll see some bad parts that are gibberish. Now type in to Yandex Translate single word by single word what it should have been, and cut and paste into whats in notepad to correct it all. Now, you should have something the Ruskies can make sense of. :p At least I hope they can read it, only Chizh has answered me so far, and I know he can read English.

 

I also post in English above it for all who can read English.

 

I admit I'm torn by this decision. I think it is correct to give the Ka-52 wing to the Ka-50, because it's only a few inches wider, which I doubt affects anything tactical, giving it more capability. It also doesn't make sense production wise to have to make two different wings for literally the same helicopter. So, I think if there had been standard production of Ka-50, this would have happened. However, I think this is a crutch for ED to push fixing the EO contrast problem down the road. Hopefully, with F-18 and F-16 systems development, this will be solved soon. Ka-50 also ABSOLUTELY needs the FLIR ball, as why would you have it on the Ka-52, which is leading the group, and not on the Ka-50? Without FLIR on the Ka-50, how can the Ka-52 pass off targets to it, at night? The Ka-50 is blind! Is RL Russian FLIR and EO so bad as to be near useless?

 

 

x


Edited by 3WA
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Ka-50 also ABSOLUTELY needs the FLIR ball, as why would you have it on the Ka-52, which is leading the group, and not on the Ka-50? Without FLIR on the Ka-50, how can the Ka-52 pass off targets to it, at night? The Ka-50 is blind!

 

Have you flown the KA50?

 

It has a thing called "Data Link".

 

In case you're worried about a lock with no contrast (or target ID in DCS)... You can hold the lock button and force the laser into high power mode whether it's locked or not. Then fire. The vikhr will ride the beam into the target as long as the target doesn't move... or you can move the beam manually if you can see the target and can't get a lock.

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In case you're worried about a lock with no contrast (or target ID in DCS)... You can hold the lock button and force the laser into high power mode whether it's locked or not. Then fire. The vikhr will ride the beam into the target as long as the target doesn't move... or you can move the beam manually if you can see the target and can't get a lock.

 

 

Heh, yeah, I've tried that with air targets. Doesn't work well.

 

 

I really hope ED has evidence of 3 rail wings that where actually put on a Ka-50. I do not want to fly a fantasy bird.

 

 

Probably not (unless you count the Ka-50-2)

 

 

If you read all the stuff Fri13 has posted, the "release" of the "production" Ka-50 never really was. It sounds like they just picked a random variation to toss out and fill a contract. Then, it was just dumped.

It was just never really completed. The Ka-52 was what came out of it all, and you can see it is MILES ahead of the Ka-50. So, I consider the Ka-50 somewhat a fantasy, and if I recall correctly, it's pretty much what Chizh called it on the Russian forums. Because it was never completed.

 

 

The reason we really need the igla's is because of the Shkval not being able to lock a heli unless it's very slow and close ( which usually means your dead meat ). But as Chizh also said, there will be separate tick boxes in the Special page for what you do and do not want in the upgrade. So far, it looks like it's going to be President-S, 3rd rail, and igla in the upgrade. Not sure about new pit. Haven't seen any info on that yet.

 

 

And if you don't want any of that, ED said they were going to fix all the current bugs in the Ka-50 for free. So, Win/Win to some point. I just wish they would fix the Shkval contrast problem and give us FLIR ball as well, for night attack.

 

 

x


Edited by 3WA
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