Black Shark 3?

[Razor18]

Yeah, I found the info elsewhere. "Whenever it will be ready..."

[QuiGon]

5 hours ago, Razor18 said:

Sorry to just jump in out of nowhere, but where can I find the latest info about when the BS 2 will be upgraded to BS 3?

Nowhere, as this info does not exist yet.

Edit: This info did exist in the past though, but it's obviously no longer valid:

Quote

We are also pleased to update you on the progress to Black Shark 3, including the revised cockpit, new external model, new avionics and weapons. This new version of the highly successful Ka-50 simulation should be available this summer and will be offered to existing owners of Black Shark II with a substantial discount.

from:

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by QuiGon

[Enduro14]

Ya chiz also said Russian side not to long ago like others have said,  when they have stuff to share they will.  So easily translates to minimum work being done and Apache is priority let alone work on Hind?

[QuiGon]

22 minutes ago, Enduro14 said:

Ya chiz also said Russian side not to long ago like others have said,  when they have stuff to share they will.  So easily translates to minimum work being done and Apache is priority let alone work on Hind?

Hind and Apache are being made different teams. Hind is being done by the team in Minsk (ex-Belsimtek), while the Apache is done by one of the teams in Moscow. I'm not sure who's working on BS3 though, but I would assume it's also being worked on in Moscow, maybe even the same team that does the Apache.
(Of course there is some overlap between the teams, but I'm talking about the core teams).

Edited November 4, 2021 by QuiGon

[Bolec]

L370-5 "DIRCM", L136 Mak-UFM "MAWS" and third pylon, are we gonna able to buy it ????

Edited February 2, 2022 by Bolec

[1stBEAST]

yes as soon as it is released this is what is called the BS3 update

[AlphaOneSix]

On 2/2/2022 at 6:21 AM, Bolec said:

L370-5 "DIRCM", L136 Mak-UFM "MAWS" and third pylon, are we gonna able to buy it ????

No DIRCM, but the rest is correct.

[Rongor]

Will the windshield wipers actually have an effect this time?

[Bolec]

16 hours ago, AlphaOneSix said:

No DIRCM, but the rest is correct.

Why no DIRCM???, in the video we can see L370-5 DIRCM, its visible ,small balls

[AlphaOneSix]

4 hours ago, Bolec said:

Why no DIRCM???, in the video we can see L370-5 DIRCM, its visible ,small balls

No DIRCM visible in that video. We are only getting the missile warning system (...well, and the third wing pylon).

The mounting points for the DIRCM turrets are there, as they were planning to implement the DIRCM when they did the 3D model, but now that it has been removed as a feature, they've removed the turrets but left the mounting locations on the 3D model.

Edited February 4, 2022 by AlphaOneSix

[Kappa-131st]

MWS and third wing pylon isn't enought for me to buy BS3...

MWS is not RWR and not president-S. Just a bip we hear before dying...

Igla is a cool feature but not the main job of Ka-50. Not indispensable.

ED, you're making a new FLIR with thermical map ? Give it to BS3 and make a Ka-50sh with Samshiit system ! This is the feature we want to buy !!!

Edited February 12, 2022 by Kappa-131st

[Mike_Romeo]

4 hours ago, Kappa-131st said:

MWS and third wing pylon isn't enought for me to buy BS3...

If you already own the Ka-50, BS-3 will be a very cheap update like the Warthog update.

4 hours ago, Kappa-131st said:

ED, you're making a new FLIR with thermical map ?

KA-50 systems are TV only. No thermal sight.

4 hours ago, Kappa-131st said:

MWS and third wing pylon isn't enought for me to buy BS3...

You are also getting a brand new external 3D model, enhanced cockpit. If you dont want to buy BS3, you can still fly BS2

[3WA]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:13 AM, Kappa-131st said:

ED, you're making a new FLIR with thermical map ? Give it to BS3 and make a Ka-50sh with Samshiit system ! This is the feature we want to buy !!!

THIS.  I do want the Igla's because the shkval is so BAD at trying to lock aircraft, even helicopters against a clear blue sky.

We NEED FLIR to have night capabilities.  ED says they are making the Shark as it would be if it had been continued in development.  It would have had FLIR.  And most likely whatever EO system the Ka-52 is using.

[Fastbreak]

Hi 3WA!

New feature vs bug-fix

"THIS.  I do want the Igla's because the shkval is so BAD at trying to lock aircraft, even helicopters against a clear blue sky."

I agree, but I disagree your reson why. If the shkval is this bad, and it is because ED has botched it up, you should logically require bug-fixing first and foremost. Nonetheless, Vikhars should be very effectiv against air targets, too*.  With Vikhrs (and Shkval) fully working against aircrafts some fast short-range air-to-air Iglas become a real benefit. Iglas therfore extend the air combat capabilities as far as a helicopter gets involved in an air fight at all. Bug-fixing should always have highest priority, in your argumentation, too, because broken functionality must not be replaced by new shiny features which again may produce shortcomings conducive to DCS's SCD (Safe Circle of Desaster)!

* 9K121 Vikhar: Range 08-10 km, speed 1.8 Mach, warhead 8-12 kg tandem HEAT charge, armor penetration behind ERA etc.  Igla-V (from 9K38 Igla): Rrange 5.2 km, speed 2.5 Mach,       warhead 1.17 kg with 390 g HMX etc.

Reality vs wishes

"We NEED FLIR to have night capabilities.  ED says they are making the Shark as it would be if it had been continued in development.  It would have had FLIR.  And most likely whatever EO system the Ka-52 is using."

I disagree, yet I have to admit that I would love to use FLIR in KA-50. However, the KA-52 indeed is a different rotor wing, while very similar. Features that are not available in a real world aircraft do not belong in its realistic simulation per definition - a 'motley Doomsday device' better lends itself to some war game. In short, do not get your knickers in a twist and fly those (day) missions which the KA-50 is built for or switch to a different cockpit. The President S System in contrast is an optional equipment for various aircrafts in reality and therefore it can not be excluded from implementation (except Moscow mothballs it).

Transparency

Many open issue with the current KA-50 (2) require a detailed to-do list summed up from the forum. To avoid oversight ED ought to publish the(ir) to-do list in a newsletter (e.g. Newsletter Special - Upgrade to KA-50 3) where they tell us EXACTLY what items of KA-50 they will REMODEL, PATCH, and EXTEND* - BEFORE they start to rack their keyboards. Something by the way I consider a matter of course. The open to-do list does its bit to take the KA-50 3 to an overall development level that is par for the course after 13 years.

* Especially with regard to Vulcan/DX12/Multithreading

Bye

 

[Dusty44]

Two Ka-50s were fitted with FLIR I’m guessing as a prototypes but it’s more realistic imho to give us the rare Ka-50N than an Igla which didn’t exist.

[okopanja]

37 minutes ago, Dusty44 said:

Two Ka-50s were fitted with FLIR I’m guessing as a prototypes but it’s more realistic imho to give us the rare Ka-50N than an Igla which didn’t exist.

Nice picture: which book article/book is the source?

[Dusty44]

5 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Nice picture: which book article/book is the source?

 

[Fastbreak]

"Two Ka-50s were fitted with FLIR I’m guessing as a prototypes but it’s more realistic imho to give us the rare Ka-50N than an Igla which didn’t exist."

I did not know that Iglas did not exist. Given this, I would also prefer the KA-50N prototype to be simulated. FLIR with fully, realistic working Vikhrs (+Shkval) as premise are a much better equipment for a helicopter mainly operating low-level to destroy ground targets than Vikhrs and Iglas without FLIR.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Fastbreak

[Blackjack_UK]

59 minutes ago, Fastbreak said:

<Snip>

I would also prefer the KA-50N prototype to be simulated. FLIR with fully, realistic working Vikhrs (+Shkval) as premise are a much better equipment for a helicopter mainly operating low-level to destroy ground targets than Vikhrs and Iglas without FLIR.

</Snip>

 

This. 100% this.

[Kappa-131st]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:59 PM, Mike_Romeo said:

If you already own the Ka-50, BS-3 will be a very cheap update like the Warthog update.

KA-50 systems are TV only. No thermal sight.

You are also getting a brand new external 3D model, enhanced cockpit. If you dont want to buy BS3, you can still fly BS2

 - Price isn't the issue. Features in this update are. The MWS they made doesn't exists. They made it on the ABRIS witch is a civilian Finnish navigation computer... It is fake. The 3th pylons wing doesn't exist on the KA-50. Only on the KA-52. All feature on BS3 is fake feature. I don't want a fake Ka-50, but if they still make it, I want at least "usefull" features. Like a FLIR.

 - KA-50sh (or KA-50N) have a FLIR. (Sam<profanity>-50 optronic turret with Thomson-CSF Victor FLIR). BS-2 is based on KA-50 prototyp who fly over Tchetchenia. BS-3 must be updated KA-50 with Thomson FLIR !
-------------------------------------

Trials led to two "final" versions: Ka-50N "Night Shark" and Ka-50Sh (Russian: Шар, romanized: Shar, "ball"; because of the spherical FLIR turret). The first Ka-50Sh, which was the 8th pre-production aircraft, Bort 018, first flew on 4 March 1997. The Kamov company and Black Shark logos were displayed on the endplate fins and the vertical tail. It featured the Sam<profanity>-50 system installed within a 640 mm (25 in) diameter sphere under the nose. Shkval system was moved to the nose cone area. Neither of the Ka-50 night-attack versions has entered full production
-------------------------------------

 - Like I say, price isn't the issue. But buying useless features ? MWS isn't a usefull feature. Igla can be usefull but not enough. The only feature KA-50 is missing is a FLIR. ED just remake their FLIR system. BS3 must be a KA-50N/sh ! This feature is truly usefull, this is the feature it miss on KA-50 ! Don't care about IGLA and MWS !

 

[FlankerKiller]

On 3/24/2022 at 5:54 AM, Kappa-131st said:

 - Price isn't the issue. Features in this update are. The MWS they made doesn't exists. They made it on the ABRIS witch is a civilian Finnish navigation computer... It is fake. The 3th pylons wing doesn't exist on the KA-50. Only on the KA-52. All feature on BS3 is fake feature. I don't want a fake Ka-50, but if they still make it, I want at least "usefull" features. Like a FLIR.

 - KA-50sh (or KA-50N) have a FLIR. (Sam<profanity>-50 optronic turret with Thomson-CSF Victor FLIR). BS-2 is based on KA-50 prototyp who fly over Tchetchenia. BS-3 must be updated KA-50 with Thomson FLIR !
-------------------------------------

Trials led to two "final" versions: Ka-50N "Night Shark" and Ka-50Sh (Russian: Шар, romanized: Shar, "ball"; because of the spherical FLIR turret). The first Ka-50Sh, which was the 8th pre-production aircraft, Bort 018, first flew on 4 March 1997. The Kamov company and Black Shark logos were displayed on the endplate fins and the vertical tail. It featured the Sam<profanity>-50 system installed within a 640 mm (25 in) diameter sphere under the nose. Shkval system was moved to the nose cone area. Neither of the Ka-50 night-attack versions has entered full production
-------------------------------------

 - Like I say, price isn't the issue. But buying useless features ? MWS isn't a usefull feature. Igla can be usefull but not enough. The only feature KA-50 is missing is a FLIR. ED just remake their FLIR system. BS3 must be a KA-50N/sh ! This feature is truly usefull, this is the feature it miss on KA-50 ! Don't care about IGLA and MWS !

 

I really really have to agree with you on this. I fear that if ED makes a what if aircraft that never flew they are opening a bad door. I know that they can pretty well model the flight characteristics, and how the systems would work. But that isn't the same as having real world data. Obviously there are some gameifacations in DCS. Like the EW systems, but that is by necessity. While it might be fun making a whole fantasy aircraft could muddy the waters of pure simulation that has made DCS what it is today. And once that starts where dose it end? I personally would love to see an RWR, and chaff and Flare dispensers, as well as modern rocket pods, added to the P-47. Just to see how it would perform as a poor man's COIN aircraft today. But that isn't what DCS is about. At least not yet. Making up a frankencopter to rival the Apache isn't really any different. Then what about all the desire for simirealistc loadouts. Like the Swiss Pylons on the FA-18C, or Stingers on the Apache. It's gonna be real hard to say "we can't because it's not realistic", when you have a whole ass made up helicopter. Now let me be clear I actually want everything I just listed. But I am against the Idea of a made up Blackshark in DCS, and by extension everything I just said. Because DCS made it self what it is by being the closest thing to real that your going to get. 

[Avimimus]

On 3/30/2022 at 10:39 AM, FlankerKiller said:

Then what about all the desire for simirealistc loadouts. Like the Swiss Pylons on the FA-18C, or Stingers on the Apache.

Give me a CRV-7 rocket pod for the CF-18/CF-188 and I'd have actually bought it. I haven't picked it up so far. IMHO, the Canadian version is so close the decision to not model it is silly - especially given that the armament is also certified for American versions, just not actually carried operationally.

If you want to uphold that gold standard - then be consistent - delist the F-18 for every other country in the game, remove all of the skins for every other country which operates it.

Then - of course - one has to recognise that incremental upgrades mean that the aircraft modelled is only accurate to a three year period - so make it so that it can't interact with any other AI aircraft or ground unit unless it is prototypical to the exact three year period that the airplane is modelled to represent.

[BadgerFly]

So I was just browsing around on this thread, and when I saw @okopanja's post about the Ka-50Sh and Ka-50N - just WOW!

I absolutely give my vote to one of these airframes being modelled. Yes, it will be great knowing when someone's shooting at you, and yes it will be cool shooting down Apaches with the Iglas, but flying around in the dark with a FLIR-equipped Black Shark will just make my year, or even decade!

ED, I love DCS and all that it is, if the international restrictions allow for it please give us a Ka-50 with a FLIR!

[okopanja]

4 minutes ago, BadgerFly said:

So I was just browsing around on this thread, and when I saw @okopanja's post about the Ka-50Sh and Ka-50N - just WOW!

Not me, the other guy posted, I just quoted and asked a question...

 

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Gierasimov said: