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TrackIR or VR? why?

 

I love the VR experience with my Rift; however, the low res makes acquiring ground targets extremely difficult.

 

 

 

Yep tried the new TEW 3.0 DLC, and came to this conclusion very quickly especially in missions where you face multiple including moving targets while allies are getting pounded and you have a fraction of time to take out the hostiles and save them. Spotting is already hard even without VR but frame rate also tanks near the ground which is a double whammy.

 

I’m sure there are people who could breeze through these in VR, I’m just not one of those and I did give it a good shot.

 

Air to air combat in VR is ok though.

 

 

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Edited by Supmua

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I love the VR experience with my Rift; however, the low res makes acquiring ground targets extremely difficult.

 

 

 

Search for the “Spotting mod for VR”. It’s awesome. I didn’t want to use it at first because I thought it would be like cheating, but not at all. It’s much more realistic. It’s set up for air to air spotting, but you can edit the LUA to also allow for ground targets. You just change the ground targets parameter at the top of the file from false to true, then adjust the distances to your liking. I have mine set up so I can’t really notice anything until I’m within a realistic spotting distance. At first I was spotting targets from 10 miles away which really bugged me, but now I’m loving it.

My DCS Missions: Band of Buds series | The End of the T-55 Era | Normandy PvP | Host of the Formation Flight Challenge server

 

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Edit: Source? What are you talking about exactly? Edit: Yes, if it's nothing ED can implement, why shouldn't it work by now? As far as I see you only need to have the proper hardware for it, not a normal 370, 390 chipset or similiar board and you need to setup the Nvidia driver settings properly. Did you set this up and test it yourself or do you just repeat what others told you? Did someone do this and if yes where?

 

The one sure way to get all of these answers is to buy all of the hardware and see if it works. Just think, you could be the guy that proves everybody wrong. :thumbup:

 

This past weekend, I tried a quick mission in VR where I saved a track at the end. I made sure to look around a lot, looking down into the trees, looking at streets, buildings, and power lines as I flew over them. Killed 3 BTRs and a ZSU with Mavericks, and then flew back to base and landed. Then I turned all of my graphics settings up as high as they would go, and ran the replay on my brand new 46" QLED 4K TV. The visuals and colors were stunning, with shadows that moved across the cockpit as I maneuvered. But, when I got to the part of the track where I looked down into the trees, I didn't get the feeling of actually looking between trees. I didn't get a sense of the urban battlespace as I looked at the high resolution (but flat) buildings and streets. Definitely sticking with VR. The depth perception and sense of motion is much more important than all the extra eye candy. Besides, when I'm flying a mission at 200 AGL and below, I found that I spend exactly zero time looking around the cockpit and marveling at the shadows. That being said, I can say that QLED TVs are awesome! Just not my cup of tea when it comes to flight simming. :D


Edited by eaglecash867

EVGA Z690 Classified, Intel i9 12900KS Alder Lake processor, MSI MAG Core Liquid 360R V2 AIO Liquid CPU Cooler, G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 64GB DDR5 6400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 980PRO 1TB M2.2280 SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 980PRO 2TB M2.2280 SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. :pilotfly:

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The one sure way to get all of these answers is to buy all of the hardware and see if it works. Just think, you could be the guy that proves everybody wrong. :thumbup:

I'll get a setup like this because I'm quite sure it does work. I can't see a reason that it shouldn't work, only people complaining it doesn't and blaming ED for "not implementing it" which they don't deserve while they were just unable to buy the correct hardware for it or didn't even test it themselves in the first place. I've found a screenshot that proves that SLI works in DCS and also found posts of people who got it working in DCS with VR within some hours of research and these were without the best hardware for the purpose (they have Z370 or Z390 chipsets).

 

... I didn't get a sense of the urban battlespace as I looked at the high resolution (but flat) buildings and streets. Definitely sticking with VR. ...
Yeah, it's almost over for screens for DCS Simmers. No one should buy a new system for DCS and not get a Pimax from now onward other than for budget reasons. Not immediately hopping onto the Oculus hypetrain because it being first generation is and was the right decision for most but now it's a different story with the new HMDs already here (Pimax) or coming in.
Edited by Der Hirte
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I'll get a setup like this because I'm quite sure it does work. I can't see a reason that it shouldn't work, only people complaining it doesn't and blaming ED for "not implementing it" which they don't deserve while they were just unable to buy the correct hardware for it or didn't even test it themselves in the first place. I've found a screenshot that proves that SLI works in DCS and also found posts of people who got it working in DCS with VR within some hours of research and these were without the best hardware for the purpose (they have Z370 or Z390 chipsets).

 

 

Care to share the screenshot?

 

All I found was some info in the VR thread on the 2080ti's that some guy was gonna help write something to make it possible to do SLI. But nothing actually posted, or finished. Also in that thread, they basically came to the conclusion that the biggest problem was the CPU bottle-necking due to draw calls.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=221380&page=26

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"Traditional" SLI (alternate frame rendering) does not work in VR in any game.

There's special VR SLI mode (one card per eye) but the game has to support it, and DCS does not.

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3408608&postcount=40

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3753297&postcount=10

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=201454&highlight=SLI

To me it doesn't look like ED "has to implement" something. Optimization? Yes maybe. Support in general? Why, since it already works?

 

Well maybe they did implement this

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/vrsli

 

Looks like naruto is doing it with dual 2080ti's.


Edited by Harlikwin

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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"Traditional" SLI (alternate frame rendering) does not work in VR in any game.

There's special VR SLI mode (one card per eye) but the game has to support it, and DCS does not.

 

The second thread suggests it does work in VR.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Care to share the screenshot?

 

All I found was some info in the VR thread on the 2080ti's that some guy was gonna help write something to make it possible to do SLI. But nothing actually posted, or finished. Also in that thread, they basically came to the conclusion that the biggest problem was the CPU bottle-necking due to draw calls.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=221380&page=26

 

SLI will not work for DCS in VR currently, as it won't in most games in VR.

Don B

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The second thread suggests it does work in VR.

 

It runs in Sli. Doesn't mean the second card is doing anything.

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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There's special VR SLI mode (one card per eye) but the game has to support it, and DCS does not.

Does this imply outside of this "special VR SLI mode" SLI can't work in VR or can it but it isn't ideal?

Well maybe they did implement this

https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/vrsli

 

Looks like naruto is doing it with dual 2080ti's.

Maybe he is using this. But for certain is that NVidia has worked or is working on bettering the VR performance through SLI (now NVLink).

SLI will not work for DCS in VR currently, as it won't in most games in VR.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/0/405692758700994356/?ctp=2

Here people are delivering their results with the VR SLI test tool of SteamVR and there are people who used it and happenend to have a big performance increase. This is from early 2016, literally 3 years ago. Since we know that the Pimax API is working on top of SteamVR somehow (I don't have my system yet) I wouldn't dismiss the thought that Pimax can "easily" implement VR SLI "support". And if they could do this "easily" they most certainly will do it since these Pimax guys are actually the ones who understood things very early on. Even if it happens that they don't implement something (in the future), which I doubt, there still could be workarounds or mods using the NVidia Control Panel and/or SteamVR to actually achieve the goal.

It runs in Sli. Doesn't mean the second card is doing anything.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3754003&postcount=15

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3754569&postcount=22

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3754695&postcount=25

"Now with the VR mod in DCSbeta, I was able to increase MSAA to 4X and SAA to 1.5 with max settings and it stayed mostly at 47FPS in Caucus and 45 in Persian Gulf. Viewing heavy populated ares it dropped to about 40 - 43 FPS." and "With a PD of 2.0". I don't know about you but SLI means an performance increase over the possible performance of one card, not "SLI only counts when you get like 60% more performance" or such. Even if you have a performance increase, you can argue about if it's worth it for the money or not, for let's say only 10 or 15% then SLI does work. Assuming this dude doesn't talk shit - why would he? - he is having these fps on max settings, even with AA and a pixel density of 2.0. To me it doesn't sound legit to claim that only one 2080TI is capable of this performance. Pixel density 2.0, AA, max settings and these fps? Did something change with the Oculus software that PD 2.0 isn't as demanding as it used to be? I remember people maxing out on a 1080TI at low DCS settings and not even reaching nearly constant 90 FPS at like 1.4 or 1.5 or so, and this increases exponentially. PD 2.0 is hugely more harsh on the hardware than just 1.4 or 1.5. Not even starting to talk about the low versus high DCS settings and AA ...


Edited by Der Hirte
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The "VR Mod" he is talking about is Kegetys Shader mod which improves VR performance for a lot of people, not SLI : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373&highlight=DCS+shaders

 

SLI doesn't improve performance in VR in any meaningful way. Sorry.

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The "VR Mod" he is talking about is Kegetys Shader mod which improves VR performance for a lot of people, not SLI : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215373&highlight=DCS+shaders

 

SLI doesn't improve performance in VR in any meaningful way. Sorry.

Read the rest of the thread he posted this in, you might see that this is the only post he tested this mod in. He still has high performance even without the mod. And so much on ignoring this part of my previous post: "Assuming this dude doesn't talk shit - why would he? - he is having these fps on max settings, even with AA and a pixel density of 2.0. To me it doesn't sound legit to claim that only one 2080TI is capable of this performance. Pixel density 2.0, AA, max settings and these fps? Did something change with the Oculus software that PD 2.0 isn't as demanding as it used to be? I remember people maxing out on a 1080TI at low DCS settings and not even reaching nearly constant 90 FPS at like 1.4 or 1.5 or so, and this increases exponentially. PD 2.0 is hugely more harsh on the hardware than just 1.4 or 1.5. Not even starting to talk about the low versus high DCS settings and AA ..."

 

How do you explain this performance with a single 2080TI? I'm genuinely interested. The jump from a single 1080TI to a single 2080TI doesn't justify the jump from PD ~1.4 to 2.0, low to high DCS settings (maybe turning on AA for some) and FPS above of 40 or 45+ most of the time in low level flight. I am not the only one which is atleast a bit suspicious about this performance am I?

 

Edit: Yeah, look at post #22 which I already posted. It's without the mod, whatever the mod does.


Edited by Der Hirte
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Does this imply outside of this "special VR SLI mode" SLI can't work in VR or can it but it isn't ideal?

 

https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/60889/oculus-rift-and-sli

 

Normally SLI should disable itself automatically according to Oculus staff. I don't know the technical details, but probably synchronizing two cards in AFR mode to generate stable frame times with low latency required by the headset is a PITA. And AFR mode by definition requires a back buffer of at least 2 frames to keep the cards busy.

 

With dedicated VR sli mode, each card generates image for one eye, so they are easier to sync.

 

I can get ~45fps with MSAA x2, PD 2.0 and high settings with a single 2080 Ti. That's not an indicator of anything. Not to mention that's a very vague definition of performance anyway.

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/60889/oculus-rift-and-sli

Normally SLI should disable itself automatically according to Oculus staff. I don't know the technical details, but probably synchronizing two cards in AFR mode to generate stable frame times with low latency required by the headset is a PITA. And AFR mode by definition requires a back buffer of at least 2 frames to keep the cards busy.

You don't have another HMD than Rift right? I mean for some VR SLI seems to be working in SteamVR for example (which Pimax builds on).

With dedicated VR sli mode, each card generates image for one eye, so they are easier to sync.
If this isn't implemented or atleast planned to be by now I don't know why.

I can get ~45fps with MSAA x2, PD 2.0 and high settings with a single 2080 Ti.

Yes, this definitively sounds like change to me. When the first big wave of Rifts were used for DCS with 1080TI people couldn't reach higher than 1.4 or so for ASW to be enabled, not to speak of 90 FPS fluently.

Not to mention that's a very vague definition of performance anyway.

If you know how much stronger the 2080TI is stronger than a 1080TI on average it's atleast an indication if SLI has impact or not. This all starts to smell like it's time for a Kingpin 2080TI.


Edited by Der Hirte
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If this isn't implemented or atleast planned to be by now I don't know why.

 

Because it is the opposite of what you should normally do to optimize VR performance, where you cram everything into one frame for single pass rendering. So it has to be done on a game engine level. And expecting it to be done by ED in DCS, well, it's a niche (SLI) in a niche (VR) in a niche (DCS), I wouldn't expect it getting much attention.

 

Yes, this definitively sounds like change to me. When the first big wave of Rifts were used for DCS with 1080TI people couldn't reach higher than 1.4 or so for ASW to be enabled, not to speak of 90 FPS fluently.

 

My point is, I'm in the same ballpark with a single 2080Ti as the guy with two in SLI.

Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro

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Because it is the opposite of what you should normally do to optimize VR performance, where you cram everything into one frame for single pass rendering. So it has to be done on a game engine level. And expecting it to be done by ED in DCS, well, it's a niche (SLI) in a niche (VR) in a niche (DCS), I wouldn't expect it getting much attention.

If theres no alternative, especially for SteamVR and Pimax then ... Vulkan now in 2021 or so.

My point is, I'm in the same ballpark with a single 2080Ti as the guy with two in SLI.
I know, I was elaborating why the numbers "Naruto" got made me so suspicous in the first place considering DCS VR. The performance jump seemed too good to be true from 1080TI to 2080TI.
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If theres no alternative, especially for SteamVR and Pimax then ... Vulkan now in 2022! or so.

I know, I was elaborating why the numbers "Naruto" got made me so suspicous in the first place considering DCS VR. The performance jump seemed too good to be true from 1080TI to 2080TI.

 

Depend on the rig it is running on.

 

I went from 1080 Ti to 2080 Ti on my previous 4820k rig at 4.5 GHz, and saw very small improvement.

Built this new i9 9900k rig at 5.1 GHz and my performance with the same 2080 Ti went up quite a lot.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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Search for the “Spotting mod for VR”. It’s awesome. I didn’t want to use it at first because I thought it would be like cheating, but not at all. It’s much more realistic. It’s set up for air to air spotting, but you can edit the LUA to also allow for ground targets. You just change the ground targets parameter at the top of the file from false to true, then adjust the distances to your liking. I have mine set up so I can’t really notice anything until I’m within a realistic spotting distance. At first I was spotting targets from 10 miles away which really bugged me, but now I’m loving it.

 

 

Mind sharing your file settings?

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Depend on the rig it is running on.

 

I went from 1080 Ti to 2080 Ti on my previous 4820k rig at 4.5 GHz, and saw very small improvement.

Built this new i9 9900k rig at 5.1 GHz and my performance with the same 2080 Ti went up quite a lot.

 

Did you try out your old 1080ti in the new rig before going back to the 2080ti to see if it was a big difference without a CPU change? Just curious. Still on the fence about going from a 1080ti to a 2080ti on the same rig.

EVGA Z690 Classified, Intel i9 12900KS Alder Lake processor, MSI MAG Core Liquid 360R V2 AIO Liquid CPU Cooler, G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series 64GB DDR5 6400 memory, EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 Ultra 24GB video card, Samsung 980PRO 1TB M2.2280 SSD for Windows 10 64-bit OS, Samsung 980PRO 2TB M2.2280 SSD for program files, LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray burner. HOTAS Warthog, Saitek Pedals, HP Reverb G2. Partridge and pear tree pending. :pilotfly:

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Depend on the rig it is running on.

 

I went from 1080 Ti to 2080 Ti on my previous 4820k rig at 4.5 GHz, and saw very small improvement.

Built this new i9 9900k rig at 5.1 GHz and my performance with the same 2080 Ti went up quite a lot.

 

How was your CPU temp at 5.1 GHz, I'm afraid to push mine more as I already push almost 90F with 5.0 GHz (all cores) running certain benchmarks.

PC: 5800X3D/4090, 11700K/3090, 9900K/2080Ti.

Joystick bases: TMW, VPC WarBRD, MT50CM2, VKB GFII, FSSB R3L

Joystick grips: TM (Warthog, F/A-18C), Realsimulator (F-16SGRH, F-18CGRH), VKB (Kosmosima LH, MCG, MCG Pro), VPC MongoosT50-CM2

Throttles: TMW, Winwing Super Taurus, Logitech Throttle Quadrant, Realsimulator Throttle (soon)

VR: HTC Vive/Pro, Oculus Rift/Quest 2, Valve Index, Varjo Aero, https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/

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Did you try out your old 1080ti in the new rig before going back to the 2080ti to see if it was a big difference without a CPU change? Just curious. Still on the fence about going from a 1080ti to a 2080ti on the same rig.

 

No only the 2080 Ti in this new build.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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How was your CPU temp at 5.1 GHz, I'm afraid to push mine more as I already push almost 90F with 5.0 GHz (all cores) running certain benchmarks.

 

My cores are mostly in the upper 60's C while stressing/gaming, occasionally with peaks around 71-72c.

These 8 core processors run pretty warm when upping the vcore, I could have likely gotten 5.2 but required too much voltage which was giving me more heat on the cores than I was comfortable with. 5.1 on all cores seems to be about the sweet spot for my cpu.

 

Disabling hyperthreading helped lower the core temps a few degrees also.

Don B

EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero|

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