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CCRP mode


knightal

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Hi

 

Any advise on CCRP mode. I've managed to get the hog into the sky from a cold start, sort of got the hang of Mavericks, rockets, unguided bomb deployment and the use of CCIP but I still have trouble with CCRP sometimes it works and others it doesn't.

 

I find keeping the plane steady and in line a it of a problem, however with some axis tuning it is a bit better.

 

Interested to hear some of the other A-10 pilots methods.

 

Regards

Allan :pilotfly:

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Check out some Youtubes. It helped me a lot. Check out the Youtube playlist below. Lots of excellent stuff by Bunyap.

 

On the Range Tutorial Series

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You seems to be new to DCS just like me. I’m finally starting to get the hang of it. Ever want to try out some multiplayer? I play usually around 9-11 PM PST. I’ve never tried before.

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Try Youtube for some great tutorials. 20 minutes there can save you months of frustration. I'm kind of the opposite, CCIP hates me. Mostly lack of experience, partially lack of trim or plane deciding that nose down would be more fun if it turned right at the same time.

 

Autopilot helps, you can micro adjust, but it feels like cheating.

Somehow, LGBs are often very inaccurate for me on CCRP. GPS guided are great. Clusters are hard to tell because it doesn't really matter. Not practiced iron bombs in ages but I think they were okay.

 

Some weapons are terrible from altitude too.

 

If Youtube doesn't help, make your question a bit more specific.

What are you trying to drop?

Are you trying to set target then turn in and attack or giving yourself a long line to target to have time to setup your target and attack in the one run? (Sounds like the 2nd option)

 

(Oh, and savour this heat, Summer is not here for much longer....)

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If you are doing thr same thing and it sometimes work sometimes doesnt, it sounds like you are just sometimes outside of the release paramters. Ie the weapons system will not release the weapon if it thinks you will miss the target if it does. Too much G or just missing the cue will cause this. The window of acceptable prameters is adjustiable via the ifccc test menus, but that would be wasting your time for 99% of scenarios . Just keep practicing and it will come. One aha moment for me was realizing you pretty much have to be at 1 G during releaae in all modes. If you are cranking stick last second to meet criteria you wont be at 1G and miss anyway. Try longer approaches so you can be level and aligned well ahead of release.

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If you are doing thr same thing and it sometimes work sometimes doesnt, it sounds like you are just sometimes outside of the release paramters. Ie the weapons system will not release the weapon if it thinks you will miss the target if it does. Too much G or just missing the cue will cause this. The window of acceptable prameters is adjustiable via the ifccc test menus, but that would be wasting your time for 99% of scenarios . Just keep practicing and it will come. One aha moment for me was realizing you pretty much have to be at 1 G during releaae in all modes. If you are cranking stick last second to meet criteria you wont be at 1G and miss anyway. Try longer approaches so you can be level and aligned well ahead of release.

 

Yes you are right. The longer approaches so you can be level and aligned is probably a good idea especially in my case, as I do tend to be a bit impatient. Also knowing what I actually did that was right would be a help.

But yes practice, practice and practice :book:

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Try Youtube for some great tutorials. 20 minutes there can save you months of frustration. I'm kind of the opposite, CCIP hates me. Mostly lack of experience, partially lack of trim or plane deciding that nose down would be more fun if it turned right at the same time.

 

Autopilot helps, you can micro adjust, but it feels like cheating.

Somehow, LGBs are often very inaccurate for me on CCRP. GPS guided are great. Clusters are hard to tell because it doesn't really matter. Not practiced iron bombs in ages but I think they were okay.

 

Some weapons are terrible from altitude too.

 

If Youtube doesn't help, make your question a bit more specific.

What are you trying to drop?

Are you trying to set target then turn in and attack or giving yourself a long line to target to have time to setup your target and attack in the one run? (Sounds like the 2nd option)

 

(Oh, and savour this heat, Summer is not here for much longer....)

 

Thanks for the info yes I will definitely check out YouTube there are some great tutorials on there.

I'm in Port Macquarie been getting plenty of NE winds so temps have been OK. ;)

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Check out some Youtubes. It helped me a lot. Check out the Youtube playlist below. Lots of excellent stuff by Bunyap.

 

On the Range Tutorial Series

Username: Bunyap Sims

 

You seems to be new to DCS just like me. I’m finally starting to get the hang of it. Ever want to try out some multiplayer? I play usually around 9-11 PM PST. I’ve never tried before.

 

Thanks I just discovered Bunyap the other day. Time to get in and watch them. :book:

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dont forget during practice to use autopilot.

 

set your bomb profile.

point your TGP at the area you want to bomb.

fly in on the target area.

line up the lines.

wait for the cue to count down from 20.

start holding release button at 10.

bomb will release at 0.

turn away from target.

 

with LGB use same technique except after release start firing the laser.

 

these are my tactics in simple terms easy to remember. it took me a long time to finally get success. it just clicked one day and now i am pretty good at it. when you are done with practice and start doing missions you will have to whittle down the times to avoid flying level too long because the bad guys will be shooting at you. good luck and have fun.

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dont forget during practice to use autopilot.

 

set your bomb profile.

point your TGP at the area you want to bomb.

fly in on the target area.

line up the lines.

wait for the cue to count down from 20.

start holding release button at 10.

bomb will release at 0.

turn away from target.

 

with LGB use same technique except after release start firing the laser.

 

these are my tactics in simple terms easy to remember. it took me a long time to finally get success. it just clicked one day and now i am pretty good at it. when you are done with practice and start doing missions you will have to whittle down the times to avoid flying level too long because the bad guys will be shooting at you. good luck and have fun.

 

That's great thanks. You know I completely forgot about the "firing the laser." :doh:

 

Onward and upward :pilotfly:

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Make sure you’re pressing “TMS up long” to mark whatever spot you’re tracking with the TGP as SPI (Sensor Point of Interest) sometimes the CCRP release cues won’t update properly until you make a new SPI. Also to save laser life and protect against laser burnout I tend to only laser for the last 10 seconds of the bomb fall. Bomb impact timer can be seen in the left hand side of the HUD after release.

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Make sure you’re pressing “TMS up long” to mark whatever spot you’re tracking with the TGP as SPI (Sensor Point of Interest) sometimes the CCRP release cues won’t update properly until you make a new SPI. Also to save laser life and protect against laser burnout I tend to only laser for the last 10 seconds of the bomb fall. Bomb impact timer can be seen in the left hand side of the HUD after release.

 

Thanks for the info you make two really good points, both of which are worth remembering. :thumbup:

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TMS up long was the key for me to get effective hits on target. All other suggestions and tips are valid, but the TMS up long was the final piece of the puzzle for me when I was struggling with accurate employment of LGBs in the 10C.

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TMS up long was the key for me to get effective hits on target. All other suggestions and tips are valid, but the TMS up long was the final piece of the puzzle for me when I was struggling with accurate employment of LGBs in the 10C.

 

Yes one of my problems is not giving a long enough run once the SPI is set I'm often too close.

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Also to save laser life and protect against laser burnout I tend to only laser for the last 10 seconds of the bomb fall. Bomb impact timer can be seen in the left hand side of the HUD after release.

Not only for that reason, if you lase too early the bomb will waste precious energy to compensate its trajectory which can cause it to miss.

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I remember having a fail hit caused by constant lasing, i always go Auto Lase 12 sec settings, 10 sec. sounds good to me too. I mean i don`t have a formula, Try and error with different Drop heights for me.

 

 

Edit: And i lase the object while TMS UP long, to make sure the object is calculated and not the ground behind the object, in case the TGP uses just Lens angle and Aircraft Height to calculate.


Edited by Foss

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I remember having a fail hit caused by constant lasing, i always go Auto Lase 12 sec settings, 10 sec. sounds good to me too. I mean i don`t have a formula, Try and error with different Drop heights for me.

 

 

Edit: And i lase the object while TMS UP long, to make sure the object is calculated and not the ground behind the object, in case the TGP uses just Lens angle and Aircraft Height to calculate.

 

I usually do not burn out laser because the A10 usually is lost before then LOL

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Not only for that reason, if you lase too early the bomb will waste precious energy to compensate its trajectory which can cause it to miss.

 

I've been reading on this over the years and I'm not sure if this isn't more like an urban myth.

 

It was probably true for very early LGBs used in Vietnam in a more or less prototype style.

 

In the A-10C, we can hardly get enough altitude to make an LGB miss because of this anyway. ;)

 

All things considered, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with a lase-time of 8 to 15 seconds before impact, but I think most people who lase right after pickle don't have any problems, either.

 

That said, I'm always aiming at 10 to 12 seconds lasing before impact as that just seems to work very well for me. :smartass:

 

Edit: And i lase the object while TMS UP long, to make sure the object is calculated and not the ground behind the object, in case the TGP uses just Lens angle and Aircraft Height to calculate.

 

That's not entirely wrong, but also not really correct. :music_whistling:

 

TMS Up Long designates the SPI Generator. From that moment on, the SPI Generator will be the sensor so designated, until changed by the pilot or by the aircraft.

 

So if you turn on the laser, designate TGP as SPI Generator, and turn the laser off again, you'll have gained nothing. The SPI is not "created", it is continuously generated (by the sensor that is the current SPI Generator). With the laser off again, the SPI should go right back to where the TGP LOS intersects with the ground (according to the aircraft's terrain elevation database).

 

What makes sense: Set TGP as SOI (could be SPI Generator as well, but this doesn't matter for the following example), laser on, Set Markpoint (TMS Right Short), laser off. Now the markpoint will have taken into account the slant range given by the laser, instead of calculated TGP LOS ground intersection.

 

I hope that all made sense. It's fairly common to understand it wrong, because the manual doesn't explain the SPI Generator concept all that well, and it's hard to tell the difference from the cockpit, unless specifically looking for it. ;)

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[...]

I hope that all made sense. It's fairly common to understand it wrong, because the manual doesn't explain the SPI Generator concept all that well, and it's hard to tell the difference from the cockpit, unless specifically looking for it. ;)

 

 

See, i did not know that it is continous generation, as you already guessed, i thought Slew and Designate and done, rest is math. Thanks for pointing that out. :thumbup:

 

 

Edit: As a example, lets take a dumb bomb, TGP aiming at Top of High Building, so Impact Point will we behind the Building where TGP LOS hits ground, if i got the concept right.


Edited by Foss

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Modules: A-10C, KA-50, Mi-8, UH-1H, FC3, F5E, M2000, AJS37, AV8b, F18C

 

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I've been reading on this over the years and I'm not sure if this isn't more like an urban myth.

 

It was probably true for very early LGBs used in Vietnam in a more or less prototype style.

IRL it's true for Paveway I (Vietnam era) and II (GBU-10, 12, 16), as they both use the bang bang guidance which can lead to overcompensation which causes energy to be bleeded rather quickly:

 

The original Paveway series, retroactively named Paveway I, gave way in the early 1970s to the improved Paveway II, which had a simplified, more reliable seeker and pop-out rear wings to improve the weapon's glide performance. Both Paveway I and Paveway II use a simple 'bang-bang' control system, where the CAS commands large canard deflections to make course corrections, resulting in a noticeable wobble. This had relatively little effect on accuracy, but expends energy quickly, limiting effective range. As a consequence, most users release Paveway I and II weapons in a ballistic trajectory, activating the laser designator only late in the weapon's flight to refine the impact point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway

 

 

In DCS on the other hand, I've never noticed any disadvantages of turning the laser on from the beginning :dunno:


Edited by QuiGon

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Edit: As a example, lets take a dumb bomb, TGP aiming at Top of High Building, so Impact Point will we behind the Building where TGP LOS hits ground, if i got the concept right.

 

Yup, that's how it should be. Unless the terrain database includes (some? all?) buildings; that I'm not sure about.

 

IRL it's true for Paveway I (Vietnam era) and II (GBU-10, 12, 16), as they both use the bang bang guidance which can lead to overcompensation which causes energy to be bleeded rather quickly

 

Good to know, thanks! :thumbup:

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