Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 So I've been practicing the A2A instant action mission, and I can't get the sidewinders to track the target. I maneuver to get a tone, hold the uncage button, pull lead pursuit and fox 2, but the missile doesn't turn to intercept at all. It just flies straight forward off the rail. The target is on full afterburner and not dropping flares. Is there something I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Do you get tone before firing? S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Yep. clear tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Well, they aren't perfect, it depends on many details, G's while firing, G's the other guy is pulling, aspect of the target (worst in former versions and front view), etc. We should see exact conditions you were. I mean, only happens in F-5? Have you tried different AIM-9 versions it can carry? Have you tried against bigger and less manoeuvrable targets? I don't know, all that stuff. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 So I've been practicing the A2A instant action mission, and I can't get the sidewinders to track the target. I maneuver to get a tone, hold the uncage button, pull lead pursuit and fox 2, but the missile doesn't turn to intercept at all. It just flies straight forward off the rail. The target is on full afterburner and not dropping flares. Is there something I'm missing? Hello, I do not have the F-5, but I'm an AIM-9 Sidewinder enthusiast. - shouldn't you press and release (instead of holding) the uncage button, for it to effect correctly ? - IMPORTANT: did the audio tone effectively change from what it was, in the moment you pointed the missile's boresight at the target, or did it kept the same tone ? - I do understand that the F-5 is very spared in HUD symbols - do you have any indication that the AIM-9 seekerhead is uncaged other than the audio tone ? - have you cooled your missiles long enough before shooting them ? Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Here's a .zip with a .trk and a tacview file.examples.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 So i just realized how old the missiles are. I'm playing the nevada A2A instant action mission, which puts you in I believe an Iranian F-5, so I'm firing GAR-8s, not AIM-9s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Here's a .zip with a .trk and a tacview file. Don't know what programs to play that track format... So i just realized how old the missiles are. I'm playing the nevada A2A instant action mission, which puts you in I believe an Iranian F-5, so I'm firing GAR-8s, not AIM-9s Try with more modern versions (AIM-9B isn't much of a performer also). Have you read my points on the previous post ? Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Don't know what programs to play that track format... It's for DCS's native track file viewer. Have you read my points on the previous post ? Yes I did. The F5 only uncages the seeker when the button is held down. Releasing it returns the seeker to boresight. The lock tone changes to a higher pitch when the seeker is uncaged and tracking. The F5 doesn't really have a hud as such; it's really just a radar adjusted gun sight. If you are using the radar in dogfight mode it gives you a range cue, but that's about it. I don't know if the f5 has a way to cool the seeker heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's for DCS's native track file viewer. Thank you, that I din't know. Yes I did. The F5 only uncages the seeker when the button is held down. Releasing it returns the seeker to boresight. The lock tone changes to a higher pitch when the seeker is uncaged and tracking. The F5 doesn't really have a hud as such; it's really just a radar adjusted gun sight. If you are using the radar in dogfight mode it gives you a range cue, but that's about it. I don't know if the f5 has a way to cool the seeker heads. Very good. Maybe that ancient version GAR-8 seekerhead have a very narrow field of view, and so your lead pursuit pull got the target out of it - but I'm just speculating here. Ok then, have you tried with more modern versions of the Sidewinder ? Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 It's for DCS's native track file viewer. Yes I did. The F5 only uncages the seeker when the button is held down. Releasing it returns the seeker to boresight. The lock tone changes to a higher pitch when the seeker is uncaged and tracking. The F5 doesn't really have a hud as such; it's really just a radar adjusted gun sight. If you are using the radar in dogfight mode it gives you a range cue, but that's about it. I don't know if the f5 has a way to cool the seeker heads.As said by Top Jockey, you shouldn't hold the uncage button, as a matter of fact I never use the uncage button and missiles do work in F-5. That ancient AIM-9 version you comment has a very limited operational envelope, you shouldn't fire while pulling more than 3G's IIRC and the target shouldn't be much of an manoeuvring one either, of course catch from a 6 o'clock aspect. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 Ok then, have you tried with more modern versions of the Sidewinder ? Yup I just switched to Aim-9P's and that seems to have done the trick. Direct hit fired against a maneuvering target in front aspect. More examples attached.example 2.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorelRo Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 All AIM-9's carried by F-5 are Fire and Pray. the only success I had with them is when shooting in ideal conditions from short distance somewhere under 2 NM and with some rate of closure between the planes and pretty much from 6 o'clock. If you are in a turn fight you should forget about your AIM-9's in F-5. The AIM-9P5 has forward aspect capabilities and it's not bad for head on attacks when the rate of closure is so high than the missile doesn't have to turn too much for the kill. I'm no expert but I spent a lot of time in F-5 in DCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Jockey Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) As said by Top Jockey, you shouldn't hold the uncage button, as a matter of fact I never use the uncage button and missiles do work in F-5. That ancient AIM-9 version you comment has a very limited operational envelope, you shouldn't fire while pulling more than 3G's IIRC and the target shouldn't be much of an manoeuvring one either, of course catch from a 6 o'clock aspect. S! Yep, I forgot that item - early A-A missiles had to be shot within very small G force tolerances. Which is somewhat understandable, as they appeared at first as part of an interceptor weapons system - to hunt bombers. And as such, at those early days they were not specifically designed to hunt maneuvering fighters. Edited February 5, 2019 by Top Jockey Hangar FC3 | F-14A/B | F-16C | F/A-18C | MiG-21bis | Mirage 2000C ... ... JA 37 | Kfir | MiG-23 | Mirage IIIE Mi-8 MTV2 system i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_19d Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 As said by Top Jockey, you shouldn't hold the uncage button, What is your source for this? If you don't hold the uncage button, the sidewinder seeker head is locked straight ahead looking through a 4 degree cone. Holding the uncage button allows the seeker to move all the way to its 26 degree conical gimbal limit. This lets you pull lead before launching as described by the OP and makes it easier to fly a lag pursuit course and maintain missile track in situations where that is advantageous. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone out of how they employ the aircraft, I'm just curious as to how not using the full capabilities of the missile system would help the OP. It sounds to me like he had the right idea all along, just the wrong equipment loaded... Multiplayer as Variable Asus Z97-A - I7 4790K - 32 GB HyperX - EVGA GTX 1080 Ti - Corsair 750i PSU TM Warthog HOTAS - TM Cougar MFDs - CH Pedals - TrackIR 5 - Samsung RU8000 55” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 What is your source for this? If you don't hold the uncage button, the sidewinder seeker head is locked straight ahead looking through a 4 degree cone. Holding the uncage button allows the seeker to move all the way to its 26 degree conical gimbal limit. This lets you pull lead before launching as described by the OP and makes it easier to fly a lag pursuit course and maintain missile track in situations where that is advantageous. I'm certainly not trying to talk anyone out of how they employ the aircraft, I'm just curious as to how not using the full capabilities of the missile system would help the OP. It sounds to me like he had the right idea all along, just the wrong equipment loaded...No source, I just fly like that and it works. Anyway given the early versions limited envelope I'm not sure launching while pulling G's is any advantage, though that'd be better with the newer ones. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant_Hamlet Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 Yeah, I'm noticing that pretty much all versions of the 'winder available to the F-5 are useless in a turn fight. Sorry taxpayers, the wasted missiles were my fault for not using them correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knock-Knock Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 You have to hold uncage for the seeker to remain uncaged. Letting go of the button simply cages the seeker again. Tested this yesterday after reading this, cause I hold the uncage button in. As soon as I let go of the button when off bore, it looses tone. And I personally dont think that the P5's are all that bad. Just lead the target enough, help the missiles along so it doesnt have to turn so sharp. If you still miss, well then you are inside gun range anyway. - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none. - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS. | Windows 11 | i5-12400 | 64Gb DDR4 | RTX 3080 | 2x M.2 | 27" 1440p | Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS | MFG Crosswind pedals | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 You have to hold uncage for the seeker to remain uncaged. Letting go of the button simply cages the seeker again. Tested this yesterday after reading this, cause I hold the uncage button in. As soon as I let go of the button when off bore, it looses tone.That's good to know. I didn't take that clear out of the manual, thanks :thumbup:. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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