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Top Gun/Southern Cali map


Devil 505

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So I was thinking about this last night. How sweet would it be to hold an old school Miramar/Top Gun tournament online and treat it like the movie, winner takes home the trophy.

 

Then I got to thinking how well suited a map of that area would be for training on all levels. You have Fighter Weapons School at Miramar, you have San Clemente where naval special warfare trains and uses air assets for CAS, you have the ship yard for the pacific in San Diego along with NAS North Island, you have a training range at the end of the island for Sea Hawks, you have the Mexican coast line 4 miles south of San Diego. The list goes on. With the new carrier module coming out, it would be an ideal area for carrier training/operations. Not to mention the various environments from coastal, forest, mountain and city, all in one map. Numerous civilian airports, along with the possibility of creating fictitious drug running operations out of Mexico.

 

Let me know what you guys think?

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This has been brought up many, many times in the past -- especially recently since DCS is taking a Navy/Marine direction on the recent modern jets -- the takeaways of each discussion has been:

 

- The community 100% agrees with you and would love to see the NTTR map expanded West and South, would potentially make it the best/most relevant map we have

- ED has said they are done expanding NTTR and there are no plans for this to ever be done

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So I was thinking about this last night. How sweet would it be to hold an old school Miramar/Top Gun tournament online and treat it like the movie, winner takes home the trophy.

 

Then I got to thinking how well suited a map of that area would be for training on all levels. You have Fighter Weapons School at Miramar, you have San Clemente where naval special warfare trains and uses air assets for CAS, you have the ship yard for the pacific in San Diego along with NAS North Island, you have a training range at the end of the island for Sea Hawks, you have the Mexican coast line 4 miles south of San Diego. The list goes on. With the new carrier module coming out, it would be an ideal area for carrier training/operations. Not to mention the various environments from coastal, forest, mountain and city, all in one map. Numerous civilian airports, along with the possibility of creating fictitious drug running operations out of Mexico.

 

Let me know what you guys think?

 

Regarding NAS Miramar in the 80's, something was already created as an add-on scenario for FSX, so it would definitively be possible.

 

https://secure.simmarket.com/mile-high-sims-knkx-nas-miramar-top-gun-fsx.phtml

 

I can only say, that scenario is GREAT - if available I would buy it again for DCS.

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I understand not extending the NTTR map. But maybe an entirely new map with San Diego, NAS Miramar, San Clemente Island, Edwards AFB, San Diego International and Las Angeles International. I still think it provides a lot of military training opportunities, especially for future Sea born operations/modules. There is no reason to try and attach that map to the NTTR. To far away. Plus, if they could extend it far enough to hit Edwards, we would have an AF training base.

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  • 3 years later...
On 2/11/2019 at 10:02 AM, Buckeye said:

This has been brought up many, many times in the past -- especially recently since DCS is taking a Navy/Marine direction on the recent modern jets -- the takeaways of each discussion has been:

 

- The community 100% agrees with you and would love to see the NTTR map expanded West and South, would potentially make it the best/most relevant map we have

- ED has said they are done expanding NTTR and there are no plans for this to ever be done

The NTRR might be done but I'm not seein a good argument against a new map focused on San Diego 

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On 6/6/2022 at 7:34 AM, upyr1 said:

The NTRR might be done but I'm not seein a good argument against a new map focused on San Diego 

As a personal opinion, I believe there to be many other locations which are far more interesting - both historically and terrain-wise.  A lot of people are a bit fed up with desert and semi desert environments, we already have three such maps.  We already have a training map in the form of Nevada.  Geopolitically, it's pretty boring around San Diego.  The Baltic, Vietnam, the Balkans and extending the Persian Gulf map to include Iraq - and possibly even to tie in with Syria - are all far more interesting options for new maps.


Edited by C_W_S
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I'd love to have both NAS Lemoore and MCAS Miramar, plus the Californian coast off which a carrier could be placed. A training map focused on California would be a great complement to NTTR. It's not just desert, either, the coastal area can be quite pretty. Also, since NTTR is done, it's probably not gonna by upgraded anytime soon, a new US map would probably look better. The biggest problem I see is that the place is densely populated. That means a lot of objects and poor performance. I'm already having trouble around Vegas.

Another idea: make an explicitly 80s map of California. You know, Top Gun days and all that. 🙂 Modern one is an option, too, but I want to see classic architecture and airbases as they were in the 80s. NTTR is quite modern, although you mostly see it around Vegas. 


Edited by Dragon1-1
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6 hours ago, C_W_S said:

As a personal opinion, I believe there to be many other locations which are far more interesting - both historically and terrain-wise.  A lot of people are a bit fed up with desert and semi desert environments, we already have three such maps.  We already have a training map in the form of Nevada.  Geopolitically, it's pretty boring around San Diego.  The Baltic, Vietnam, the Balkans and extending the Persian Gulf map to include Iraq - and possibly even to tie in with Syria - are all far more interesting options for new maps.

 

I'm with you on this. my top  maps right now are the following.

  • Korea (1950s possibly modern)
  • Balkans and Italy- WWII and 1990s
  • Solomon islands (WWII and modern)
  • East front I'd really like something centred on Kursk 
  • WW II Caucuses
  • Central Europe 
  • Vietnam
  • Alaska / Russia far east
  • 1960s carabiean / Florida 
  • Philipines 

 

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16 hours ago, upyr1 said:

I'm with you on this. my top  maps right now are the following.

  • Korea (1950s possibly modern)
  • Balkans and Italy- WWII and 1990s
  • Solomon islands (WWII and modern)
  • East front I'd really like something centred on Kursk 
  • WW II Caucuses
  • Central Europe 
  • Vietnam
  • Alaska / Russia far east
  • 1960s carabiean / Florida 
  • Philipines 

 

I still think you're forgetting the Baltic Sea.  It was a serious hot spot during the cold war and we have a lot of relevant aircraft to populate such a map.  However, I see from your list that I've completely missed a 1950s Korea.  We certainly have the aircraft for it and it would be a fantastic sandbox to fly out some scenarios!

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6 hours ago, C_W_S said:

I still think you're forgetting the Baltic Sea.  It was a serious hot spot during the cold war and we have a lot of relevant aircraft to populate such a map.  However, I see from your list that I've completely missed a 1950s Korea.  We certainly have the aircraft for it and it would be a fantastic sandbox to fly out some scenarios!

I think you are right 

 

On 6/7/2022 at 11:15 AM, upyr1 said:
  • Korea (1950s possibly modern)
  • Balkans and Italy- WWII and 1990s
  • Solomon islands (WWII and modern)
  • East front I'd really like something centred on Kursk 
  • WW II Caucuses
  • Central Europe 
  • Baltic sea
  • Vietnam
  • Alaska / Russia far east
  • 1960s carabiean / Florida 
  • Philippines 

 

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The sheer density of population in the US restricts the size of the map greatly. its the same problem as having Centre Europe in a map.

Nevada could get away with it because the ONLY big city is Las vegas.

 

Now you propose San Diego/Tijuana and all the coast up Camp Pendelton (San clemente island) , The area might be one of the densest populated areas in the west coast excluding LA of course...

If doable it would have to be ugly, with generic city blocks, and tiles, not up to par with what DCS is today.

It would be a huge investment in time, resources, effort...

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Navy Fighter Pilot Explains: F/A-18 RTB Procedures

In this video I explain what the F/A-18 Hornet pilot in this video and his flight lead are doing during their off-target rendez-vous,

return to NAS Fallon, Nevada, landing, de-arm, and shut down.

 

 


Edited by WRAITH

 

DCS FORUM SIG.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

I think it is time to revisit this map Idea.  With ORBX finally entering the pool so to speak, this could potentially open the flood gates with their True Earth product line. Using the existing ORBX True Earth SoCal product to Rewind the calendar slightly (Pre-1990), and now you have a map that supports a ton of aircraft with home bases. The Following should have precedence as "Hi Detail" bases to support existing modules:  NAS Miramar F-4, F-8, F-14, F-5, A-4, E-2ai, George AFB F-4E, F-4Fai, F-4Gai, OV-10A, MCAS El Toro A-6E, F- 4B/N, F-4J/S, RF-4Bai, F-8 A-4, OA-4M, F/A-18, C-130, MCAS Yuma AV-8B, F-5, NAS Lemoore A-7E, F/A-18,  Edwards AFB.

Slightly less detailed bases to support training operations and support potential future modules should include: NAS North Island SH-2Fai, SH-3H, SH-60Bai CH-46, S-3ai, C-2ai, C-9ai, MCAS Camp Pendelton AH-1W, UH-1N, CH-46, OV-10D, Los Alamitos AAF AH-1S, UH-1H, UH-60, AH-64, CH-47.

Finally some basic detail bases that are on the map and could support multiple different scenarios NAS Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, MCAS Tustin, NAF Imperial Beach, NAF China Lake, NTC Fort Irwin, Vandenberg AFB, and USAF Plant 42 at Palmdale. 
 

Finally I would like to add, there’s a whole Lot of ocean out there, and a little portion of Mexico on this map.  This is not just a training map it is also very much open for Red Dawn type scenarios.   

DCS SoCal.jpg

ORBX DCS SoCal.kml


Edited by Woogey
Grammar
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Couldn't agree more with you Woogey, this would be the <profanity>! I belong to USLANTCOM and this would open so many doors to training for our group alone - wow! Finally an actual NAS to be based out of for CVW-11. Our Marine Hornet & Harrier squadrons could either be based out of El Toro or at Miramar and our Navy Hornets out of Lemoore. Our Army Apache squadrons would have Los Alamitos AAF. Air to ground DETS at El Centro, FAC(A) DETS to 29 Palms, FCLP at NAF San Clemente, air wing work-ups could still be done on the NTTR map or at either El Centro or China Lake, I mean the ideas are endless really. Work-ups off the SOCAL op area, etc. As a former West Coast VF guy I would L-O-V-E this!

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/15/2022 at 8:24 PM, Woogey said:

I think it is time to revisit this map Idea.  With ORBX finally entering the pool so to speak, this could potentially open the flood gates with their True Earth product line. Using the existing ORBX True Earth SoCal product to Rewind the calendar slightly (Pre-1990), and now you have a map that supports a ton of aircraft with home bases. The Following should have precedence as "Hi Detail" bases to support existing modules:  NAS Miramar F-4, F-8, F-14, F-5, A-4, E-2ai, George AFB F-4E, F-4Fai, F-4Gai, OV-10A, MCAS El Toro A-6E, F- 4B/N, F-4J/S, RF-4Bai, F-8 A-4, OA-4M, F/A-18, C-130, MCAS Yuma AV-8B, F-5, NAS Lemoore A-7E, F/A-18,  Edwards AFB.

Slightly less detailed bases to support training operations and support potential future modules should include: NAS North Island SH-2Fai, SH-3H, SH-60Bai CH-46, S-3ai, C-2ai, C-9ai, MCAS Camp Pendelton AH-1W, UH-1N, CH-46, OV-10D, Los Alamitos AAF AH-1S, UH-1H, UH-60, AH-64, CH-47.

Finally some basic detail bases that are on the map and could support multiple different scenarios NAS Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, MCAS Tustin, NAF Imperial Beach, NAF China Lake, NTC Fort Irwin, Vandenberg AFB, and USAF Plant 42 at Palmdale. 
 

Finally I would like to add, there’s a whole Lot of ocean out there, and a little portion of Mexico on this map.  This is not just a training map it is also very much open for Red Dawn type scenarios.   

You Stole my thunder and took it up a notch! I was going to say with all the maps coming out and the size of each one, it is time to revisit this one for sure.  This covers EVERY aspect of all training for every module DCS currently has for the United States.  Air Force, Navy, and Marines.  There is so much that could be accomplished with this.  I love that you expanded Nellis and Leemore. This would be a great map for every training aspect.  The map would have to be called the SOCAL map.  Really hope this sparks a third party dev to look into this closer.  This needs to extend to MCAS YUMA for sure.  Not to mention their is room for border control/drug interdiction missions with this map including Tijuana and Mexicali.  Lets keep this one in the spot light.  Hopefully someone will run with it eventually.


Edited by Devil 505
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On 2/12/2019 at 4:59 PM, Devil 505 said:

I understand not extending the NTTR map. But maybe an entirely new map with San Diego, NAS Miramar, San Clemente Island, Edwards AFB, San Diego International and Las Angeles International. I still think it provides a lot of military training opportunities, especially for future Sea born operations/modules. There is no reason to try and attach that map to the NTTR. To far away. Plus, if they could extend it far enough to hit Edwards, we would have an AF training base.

But R-2508 is actually a critical area to a LOT of Southern California units.

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On 8/15/2022 at 8:24 PM, Woogey said:

I think it is time to revisit this map Idea.  With ORBX finally entering the pool so to speak, this could potentially open the flood gates with their True Earth product line. Using the existing ORBX True Earth SoCal product to Rewind the calendar slightly (Pre-1990), and now you have a map that supports a ton of aircraft with home bases. The Following should have precedence as "Hi Detail" bases to support existing modules:  NAS Miramar F-4, F-8, F-14, F-5, A-4, E-2ai, George AFB F-4E, F-4Fai, F-4Gai, OV-10A, MCAS El Toro A-6E, F- 4B/N, F-4J/S, RF-4Bai, F-8 A-4, OA-4M, F/A-18, C-130, MCAS Yuma AV-8B, F-5, NAS Lemoore A-7E, F/A-18,  Edwards AFB.

Slightly less detailed bases to support training operations and support potential future modules should include: NAS North Island SH-2Fai, SH-3H, SH-60Bai CH-46, S-3ai, C-2ai, C-9ai, MCAS Camp Pendelton AH-1W, UH-1N, CH-46, OV-10D, Los Alamitos AAF AH-1S, UH-1H, UH-60, AH-64, CH-47.

Finally some basic detail bases that are on the map and could support multiple different scenarios NAS Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, MCAS Tustin, NAF Imperial Beach, NAF China Lake, NTC Fort Irwin, Vandenberg AFB, and USAF Plant 42 at Palmdale. 
 

Finally I would like to add, there’s a whole Lot of ocean out there, and a little portion of Mexico on this map.  This is not just a training map it is also very much open for Red Dawn type scenarios.   

DCS SoCal.jpg

ORBX DCS SoCal.kml 22.24 kB · 2 downloads

 

Yeah,don't forget to add the civilian airports too as that's where many military and civilian aircraft were manufacted between WW2 to the end of the Cold War.Lockheed,Northrop,North American Aviation/Rockwell,Douglas/Mcdonnell and Convair/General Dynamics all had factories there at one point.


Edited by Angelthunder
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  • 1 month later...

Being a San Diegan.. I fully agree with this 😃 

Don't forget to add wild brush fires (great balls of fire!)  haha jk. but it would be cool haha.

On 9/28/2022 at 1:22 PM, Angelthunder said:

Yeah,don't forget to add the civilian airports too as that's where many military and civilian aircraft were manufacted between WW2 to the end of the Cold War.Lockheed,Northrop,North American Aviation/Rockwell,Douglas/Mcdonnell and Convair/General Dynamics all had factories there at one point.

 

They still have RND and aerospace facilities. I've helped build a few of them. 😃 

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On 8/15/2022 at 6:24 PM, Woogey said:

I think it is time to revisit this map Idea.  With ORBX finally entering the pool so to speak, this could potentially open the flood gates with their True Earth product line. Using the existing ORBX True Earth SoCal product to Rewind the calendar slightly (Pre-1990), and now you have a map that supports a ton of aircraft with home bases. The Following should have precedence as "Hi Detail" bases to support existing modules:  NAS Miramar F-4, F-8, F-14, F-5, A-4, E-2ai, George AFB F-4E, F-4Fai, F-4Gai, OV-10A, MCAS El Toro A-6E, F- 4B/N, F-4J/S, RF-4Bai, F-8 A-4, OA-4M, F/A-18, C-130, MCAS Yuma AV-8B, F-5, NAS Lemoore A-7E, F/A-18,  Edwards AFB.

Slightly less detailed bases to support training operations and support potential future modules should include: NAS North Island SH-2Fai, SH-3H, SH-60Bai CH-46, S-3ai, C-2ai, C-9ai, MCAS Camp Pendelton AH-1W, UH-1N, CH-46, OV-10D, Los Alamitos AAF AH-1S, UH-1H, UH-60, AH-64, CH-47.

Finally some basic detail bases that are on the map and could support multiple different scenarios NAS Point Mugu, NAF El Centro, MCAS Tustin, NAF Imperial Beach, NAF China Lake, NTC Fort Irwin, Vandenberg AFB, and USAF Plant 42 at Palmdale. 
 

Finally I would like to add, there’s a whole Lot of ocean out there, and a little portion of Mexico on this map.  This is not just a training map it is also very much open for Red Dawn type scenarios.   

DCS SoCal.jpg

ORBX DCS SoCal.kml 22.24 kB · 3 downloads

 

You could use March Air Base as an airforce base. It's technically a reserve base I believe, but it would fit without having to push that far north into Edwards. 

However, It would be nice to see everything highlighted. I'm guessing now that they have scanning technology for maps and google earth it wouldn't be terribly hard but I have no idea how any of that works lol. 

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On 8/15/2022 at 8:24 PM, Woogey said:

This is not just a training map it is also very much open for Red Dawn type scenarios.   

DCS SoCal.jpg

ORBX DCS SoCal.kml 22.24 kB · 3 downloads

 

 Considering there are exactly zero countries on this planet capable of launching an amphibious invasion of the United States, including the United States, ''Red Dawn'' is just... You can use literally any generic ocean terrain for a RedFor attack on BluFor, but anything involving ''invading the US'' is just ridiculous. We don't need a(nother) urban training map in the desert, we need something actually plausible and useful.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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On 11/3/2022 at 7:24 PM, Mars Exulte said:

 Considering there are exactly zero countries on this planet capable of launching an amphibious invasion of the United States, including the United States, ''Red Dawn'' is just... You can use literally any generic ocean terrain for a RedFor attack on BluFor, but anything involving ''invading the US'' is just ridiculous. We don't need a(nother) urban training map in the desert, we need something actually plausible and useful.

 

Thank you for your input Mars, I am glad you put the time and effort into your response.  A couple of points that I would like to make. 1) We already have maps for all of the current hotspots of the world.  Either in our hands or on short final (Afghanistan).  2) As the premise of my version of the proposed map is Circa 1985,  the Soviet Union was still alive and kicking.  At this time they very much had a Bluewater Navy with assault craft very comparable to the United States in capability.  

 

This is very much a nostalgia map proposal that would allow service members and Fans of US Air Power to relive their glory days operating out of bases that no longer exist in the real world.  It would give many of our Aircraft the home base that they currently do not have.  Overall, this would be a fun map, which is why I play DCS, for an enjoyable way to pass time.  Campaign makers could tap into the 1980's California vibe of hot cars, good music, Palm trees, and beautiful tan lines.  The USSR could be hell bent on destruction of that Carefree Capitalist way of life.  I mean there are so many possibilities.  The other two Historical maps that are needed is Vietnam and Cold War Fulda Gap/Germany.  I am pretty sure ED has an outline for both of these already.

 

-Woog


Edited by Woogey
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4 hours ago, Woogey said:

At this time they very much had a Bluewater Navy with assault craft very comparable to the United States in capability.  

Uh... no it didn't. I realise it's a fantasy scenario, but it's ''Nazis from the dark side of the moon'' level of fantasy. The United States could not realistically invade the United States, not 40 years ago and not today, much less the Soviets completely devoid of relevant aircraft carriers. Nuke the US, yes. Invade it, no.


Edited by Mars Exulte
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Де вороги, знайдуться козаки їх перемогти.

5800x3d * 3090 * 64gb * Reverb G2

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