Anybody thinking about VR....

[SharpeXB]

"worthwhile" is a strong word.

When VR gets there, what will be your next point? not seeing devices such keyboard, MFDs... ? Not being able to write down things? Missing an actual kneeboard?

True. Even if the resolution and performance issues were solved those are still problems.

[dawgie79]

But without adequate resolution none of those things matter. I’ve tried the headsets too and arrived at the same conclusion. Until VR can deliver the equivalent of 20/20 vision it’s not going to be worthwhile for flight sims IMO

For me it's more like when not having proper situational awareness and depth perception (i.e. VR) the resolution doesn't matter, it can't make up for those things, even if you'd have 12K on a 70" screen. Either you're looking at a small 2D representation of the sim, or you're in the sim. Quite the difference if you ask me.

Edited March 3, 2019 by dawgie79

[SharpeXB]

For me it's more like when not having proper situational awareness and depth perception (i.e. VR) the resolution doesn't matter, it can't make up for those things, even if you'd have 12K on a 70" screen. Either you're looking at a small 2D representation of the sim, or you're in the sim. Quite the difference if you ask me.

These forums used to be full of discussions about how people couldn’t see or ID anything, monitors or VR. VR players complaining the most. Now it’s not really discussed. Did everything improve suddenly? The VR headsets and monitors are still the same hardware. As far as I can tell the game is still the same in that regard. Maybe people just gave up and quit?

Resolution used to be a big issue with VR and now suddenly it’s not. That’s strange.

[Cosmic_AK]

Best advice out there....try out the headset before you buy one. For me VR just isnt there yet. Graphics are horrible. For comparison.....its almost the same clarity as watching a video in YouTube at 144p resolution. I have a top end rig so for me it isnt a hardware restriction, its a rift restriction/limitation Ive compared it many times to the YouTube 144p resolution and it truly is close to the same.

 

 

Try it before you buy it. Its not for everyone. I myself feel like i wasted 400 bucks. It will get there someday but for now..for me...it aint even close.

[SharpeXB]

You tried VR once, didn't play around with any of the settings, so you don't like it.

There isn’t a setting that adds pixels to the displays (and I mean native resolution, not “pixel density”). When those are high enough to replicate 20/20 I’ll reconsider.

[etherbattx]

Anybody thinking about VR....

 

the resolution is low.

but the excitement is high.

 

when the excitement is high enough, you adjust your expectations and are soon happy.

[pauljames]

Hello Just brought VR headset,

what the problem is l use thrust master A10 set up.

and flying F18 trying to press the button around the monitors to get the stores or the other screen up no joy, l only get the titles to come what the buttons are, have anyone have the same problems even with the Harrier ,also l find my stick programs drop out as well, any help or has DCS not fix these jet?

Paul

[dburne]

Discussions aren’t allowed here? Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

You have stated repeatedly VR is not there yet for you.

I think we all get the picture.

Enjoy your monitor, meanwhile I and apparently many others will continue to enjoy VR.

[Chic]

Why is it that, for some, exercising a preference is more fulfilling if they can subvert someone else’s.

[hawka]

I'm waiting for HTC Cosmos I think it could be a good one for the 1080ti.

[jamesb]

I’m a bit of an old hat too. Started off with the original falcon 4 and most major titles from there. I fly with VR and just can’t go back. I feel like the immersion, the feeling of being in the cockpit is just too good to rely on a monitor anymore. Basically I fly on two settings. If I’m going to fly a combat op. I set everything to the low option and bump up the pixel density to 2.5. If I’m just flying around for the fun of it I go as high as the settings will go without having to worry about slideshow effect. While this purely personal preference if keeps me in the cockpit and incredibly satisfied. I know we all have our views on VR but if we support the companies making VR. They will continue to improve and maybe one day soon will give us moniter resolution at respectable frame rates. However I feel like if there’s no demand we’ll lose the best advance in flight simming since...(insert any advance here).

[Svsmokey]

....the advent of flight sims

[Hawkeye_UK]

advancement in ......1998 and Falcon 4....got to be the biggest leap compared to Janes F15/F18!

[Hawkeye_UK]

There isn’t a setting that adds pixels to the displays (and I mean native resolution, not “pixel density”). When those are high enough to replicate 20/20 I’ll reconsider.

Well all i will say on this, the current state of VR,and its not 20/20 and not good enough re your earlier comments - with Oculus Rift and HTC Vive are as we speak, and since 2016 been utilised in part to train US and UK airforces (and Navy), out of the box albeit at the time running on Nvidia Quadro GPU's.

 

So perhaps maybe consider why it's used by the military? I go back to my original statement, head movement 1-1 tracking, it gets you mimicking body/neck movements from the start and provides unparalleled immersion and situation awareness that helps assist and develop your Brain reactions to ACM and A2G training especially low level fast flight in a way that a projection or monitor cannot replicate or show. For example invert rolling over the crest of a hill for NOE flight profiles to maintain low level ingress/egress again on a monitor does nothing, in VR it gives a better training experience of distance to side of vally/deck.

 

I can't imagine monitors continuing to have any use for anything other than ME/Planning. Again like you would in real life re monitors/touchscreen tablets/Maps. Or, as i said the Monitor super zoom function that some players have no doubt got overly reliant on for ground and air acquisition. Personally i would love to see VR only multiplayer rooms.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Hawkeye_UK

[SharpeXB]

Well all i will say on this, the current state of VR,and its not 20/20 and not good enough re your earlier comments - with Oculus Rift and HTC Vive are as we speak, and since 2016 been utilised in part to train US and UK airforces (and Navy), out of the box albeit at the time running on Nvidia Quadro GPU's.

 

So perhaps maybe consider why it's used by the military? I go back to my original statement, head movement 1-1 tracking, it gets you mimicking body/neck movements from the start and provides unparalleled immersion and situation awareness that helps assist and develop your Brain reactions to ACM and A2G training especially low level fast flight in a way that a projection or monitor cannot replicate or show. For example invert rolling over the crest of a hill for NOE flight profiles to maintain low level ingress/egress again on a monitor does nothing, in VR it gives a better training experience of distance to side of vally/deck.

 

I can only imagines monitors continue to have any use for anything other than ME/Planning, as again you would in real life re monitors/touchscreen tablets etc. Or as i said the Monitor super zoom function that some players have no doubt got to used to for ground and air acquisition. Personally i would love to see VR only multiplayer rooms.

Yeah VR has all sorts of training and business uses. I actually use it in my work.

My brother is a paratrooper and they use a VR rig to practice handling chute failures.

Edited March 4, 2019 by SharpeXB

[BigDuke6ixx]

Discussions aren’t allowed here? Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

Your opinions are too often expressed as facts. Fact is I can deploy the 10c without restrictions from vr.

[eaglecash867]

There isn’t a setting that adds pixels to the displays (and I mean native resolution, not “pixel density”). When those are high enough to replicate 20/20 I’ll reconsider.

 

So, in other words, you didn't play around with the settings. If you did, you would know that pixel density makes a HUGE difference in the readability of cockpit instruments, and makes a big difference in visual acquisition of targets (which is unrealistically easy on a monitor BTW). There is no setting on a monitor that will give you depth perception or sense of scale, and there is no setting on your TrackIR that is going to give you realistic head movement. You'll reconsider? I don't think it was the intention of the OP of this thread to sell you on anything, nor anybody else for that matter. Your mind is made up. We get that. Your posting this repetitive argument in every VR thread you see makes about as much sense as someone like me posting in every TrackIR thread and telling people there that they're all wrong, and I won't consider TrackIR until they make it do everything that I think it should do.

[SharpeXB]

So, in other words, you didn't play around with the settings. If you did, you would know that pixel density makes a HUGE difference

Pixel density makes the same difference and at the same performance cost as super sampling does on a monitor. Yes it smooths the image but at a big expense in graphics power. It doesn’t add native resolution but costs just as much in performance. For the performance cost you’d be better off with just using higher resolution displays. But for now that’s just too costly in VR

For what I use Oculus for professionally people aren’t that concerned with the image quality.

For my taste the resolution isn’t high enough to trade in a 4K monitor for. Yes the immersion factor is pretty amazing but it feels to me as also having really poor eyesight and wearing a scuba mask.

 

there is no setting on your TrackIR that is going to give you realistic head movement.

I’m not sure what that even means. Yeah you do get realistic head movement with a TrackIR in DCS, including the over the shoulder look as opposed to owl neck. In sims with clickable cockpits you need exaggerated movement anyways to do things like look at switches under the throttle which IRL you wouldn’t need to do.

Edited March 4, 2019 by SharpeXB

[Svsmokey]

Now almost 20% of the posts in a thread in which he himself states he has no interest . And a typical modus operandi...perhaps engagement is not the answer ? Thankfully , these forums have an ignore function .

[MegOhm_SD]

But without adequate resolution none of those things matter. I’ve tried the headsets too and arrived at the same conclusion. Until VR can deliver the equivalent of 20/20 vision it’s not going to be worthwhile for flight sims IMO

 

Which will probably not happen in our lifetime, so your stuck in your 2D monitor.

[Davee]

Got a SO+ on sale (been waiting til the funds came in).

 

First, yes, I'm old. So a matter of perspective to some degree...

 

Started playing flight sims on a Tandy 8088, circa 1987? - everything was wireframe graphics; thought it would be a less boring way to learn instrument approach procedures, and I was right. And I was hooked. From my perspective this is what I've been waiting for for 30 years.

 

It's a little grainy, yes. Hurts my head after while, yes (getting better). But I've tweaked it such that it is 'serviceable' - and looks pretty good & runs well enough (no experience with earlier VR models). You can have my VR headset...when you pry if from my cold, dead, fingers.

 

TrackIR is gathering dust. BFM is easier. AR is easier. Landings are easier. I play 10X more now than before, doing things I never would've done before.

 

Of course I want more, we always do; about 4x the resolution, wider FOV. Hopefully we will get there.

 

 

Thanks for your perspective!

As an older guy and simming since 1985 and upgrading every few years to maintain systems currency - I just sprung for the SO+ and hope it gives me a similar impression as yours. It is to arrive March 12 or so.

 

 

I will be reading through these threads to determine just exactly what I will need to install to make it work the best it can. So much good info here but I will have to search through it bit by bit.

 

 

 

One of my issues is visual and I require eye-glasses. I know there are optical solutions available but I'm a bit anxious to determine if there will be issues.

 

 

Cheers

[hansangb]

I just just thought i would post a message for those thinking about making the jump to VR.

 

I have played flight sims on and off for over 25 years and have always relied on monitor setups (mainly Falcon & BMS, still the best large scale campaign) however stopped around 2013 due to work commitments / hardware requirements.

 

I bought a new PC in November (RTX2080 i7 SSD etc) along with an oculus rift and have to say it's been an absolute game changer. This week the lead in my rift broke (rather dog chewed through it ) so awaiting a new one and have just tried to play F18 in DCS on a monitor for the first time.

 

The difference is absolutely shocking, i can honestly say having played one mission i will not be loading it up again until the lead arrives - having only played DCS VR going back to 2D loses the entire feeling of the simulation, everything is harder having to paddle view on HOTAS, carrier landings, A2G, A2A dog fighting just becomes harder, down in the cherubs it just doesn't give the same feeling of reality. The situation awareness, offsets, ACM in visual range just becomes horrendous and so much harder to immediately assess. I'll normally fly around and only RTB on nothing on the dial but smiths however after under half an hour was back on the boat (just) after pancaking it!

 

I hear people talk about resolution and being on a monitor is better so i have just played it on a 55inch 4k screen. However, the total loss of immediate situational awareness in close is just not worth the eye candy. I rather suspect the people that go on about this have an over reliance on using the zoom function for target recognition / acquisition and intercept selection course which in reality i think is almost like a cheat mode, sure pilots have historically and do continue to use binoculars in the pit and carried sometimes as back ups however in the split second this is not possible.

 

I've wrote this for anyone thinking and is capable about making the investment into VR, if you want the most realistic feel, actual benefits in close, especially close ACM and immersion then nothing compares to VR. Sure technology will continue to get better however VR is so good now it doesn't warrant waiting if you have the budget to invest.

 

 

Yup, enjoy it! I've been in this since 1984 or so with Tandy model # escapes me, but it was 8086 based with 8 bit audio so it sound "better" than tinny speakers. It was around F19 Stealth Fighter days. And I've waited 30+ years to experience fligth sim'ing with VR. What great times we live in!

[eaglecash867]

 

I’m not sure what that even means. Yeah you do get realistic head movement with a TrackIR in DCS, including the over the shoulder look as opposed to owl neck. In sims with clickable cockpits you need exaggerated movement anyways to do things like look at switches under the throttle which IRL you wouldn’t need to do.

 

Thank you! I rest my case. If you don't know what I mean by realistic head movement, and you think that TrackIR gives you that, there is no point in discussing this further. You lack an accurate frame of reference. When I'm looking for switches in L-39 cockpits IRL, some would say the movements are pretty "exaggerated". Some of them are even easier to reach by using the hand on the opposite side of the cockpit and reaching over. As I have said before, and as many others have said already...don't like it, don't use it. The rest of us will be just fine without you. "Yeah you do get realistic head movement with a TrackIR..." LOL! Quote of the week right there! :megalol:

[SharpeXB]

You lack an accurate frame of reference.

I have a head of my own for reference. I’m aware of how it works... :music_whistling:

 

A TrackIR isn’t usually mapped 1:1 although there is a settting for that. 1:1 wouldn’t be very useful for a flight sim. Not sure what that could be used for but it does exist. It’s probably for mouse emulation.

When I say “realistic” I’m clearly talking about in game movement. That is you can give yourself the realistic movements necessary to see in 6DOF. And exaggerated necessarily for a click pit if needed.

 

It’s VR players that complain about their own “realism” in having to strain to look behind them etc. wanting it to be more like TrackIR

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3802542&postcount=1

hey you asked for reality, you got it.

Edited March 5, 2019 by SharpeXB

[dburne]

Good grief...

:music_whistling: