DCS: F-14 Air to Air Refueling Tutorial

[Golo]

...Also I would like to ask if I need to trim the induced drag caused by the probe on the yaw axis before refueling?...

 

Yes, observe the slip ball its right in front of you.

 

When you extend refueling probe the ball will move left (opposite of the yaw due to probe extension), I always step on the ball to center it.

[Pochi]

Hi, thanks for answers.

 

I am pretty sure I did not touch the rudder when the aircraft was drifting and the probe was not yet extended. I will have to try again.

 

And I think I will try to trim the yaw to centre the ball so I am able to not having to touch the rudder during refuel.

 

Any advice about how to set up a tanker properly in the mission editor? How can I make a tanker fly straight path in a pattern? What altitude a refuel is normally done? I understand 250 IAS is the best speed for that but can a KC130 fly at that speed actually?

 

Best regards,

 

Pierre

[draconus]

Post #247

[Pochi]

Yes thanks ! I will try

[deady1000]

Here's a quick one I made last week which will show you the correct setup for CVN and Tanker radio & TACAN. Also once you get Jester to tune to the Tanker radio channel make sure you're using the VHF/UHF radio communication button when trying to talk to the Tanker. You can map the button from the controls to your HOTAS.

OMG thank you so much for that.

 

 

"RAlt + #"

 

 

I've searched everywhere for this solution.

Tanker never responded WTF because I only used "#".

 

 

THANK YOU

[IRIAF M]

:thumbup:

;3821873']Hope it helps while trying to contain the excitement of refueling a Tomcat :megalol::thumbup:

 

 

 

[eatthis]

:thumbup:

 

hes soooo much smoother than i am :lol:

[Falby]

One thing to remember is that was done before probe induced yaw was added which makes things a little different.

[Bosun]

Are there any precise ways to trim?  I have them mapped to keys, as I have no axis available for them.  Is there a way to adjust their sensitivity?  

I think so far I have 20 hours at this, and flying level, 10 ft from basket, I'll suddenly, without any input, find myself drifting, and the same stick input amount to compensate  that worked just seconds ago, suddenly makes no effect at all, forcing me to over correct. 

If this is truly as finicky as a real pilot might feel, I think we likely wasted as much fuel as we took on lol

[HamP]

1 hour ago, Bosun said:

Are there any precise ways to trim?  I have them mapped to keys, as I have no axis available for them.  Is there a way to adjust their sensitivity?  

I think so far I have 20 hours at this, and flying level, 10 ft from basket, I'll suddenly, without any input, find myself drifting, and the same stick input amount to compensate  that worked just seconds ago, suddenly makes no effect at all, forcing me to over correct. 

If this is truly as finicky as a real pilot might feel, I think we likely wasted as much fuel as we took on lol

From my experience it's easier to do AAR in bomb mode (55o wing sweep) - aircraft is more stable then. And the main rule should be - trim aircraft while in formation with the tanker and only then proceed to refuel. Also - if you think you are doing small stick corrections, correct yourself and do even smaller (in other words - the smaller, the better).

Everything also depends on the stick you are using - the better stick you have, the more smooth experience you will experience. Extension helps too.

After that all comes to practice and suddenly everything just clicks and you can do AAR on a regular basis

Good luck!

[IronMike]

6 hours ago, Bosun said:

Are there any precise ways to trim?  I have them mapped to keys, as I have no axis available for them.  Is there a way to adjust their sensitivity?  

I think so far I have 20 hours at this, and flying level, 10 ft from basket, I'll suddenly, without any input, find myself drifting, and the same stick input amount to compensate  that worked just seconds ago, suddenly makes no effect at all, forcing me to over correct. 

If this is truly as finicky as a real pilot might feel, I think we likely wasted as much fuel as we took on lol

Your issue likely extends beyond stick-inputs and trimming: it is your throttle work. What renders your trim useless? It is changes in RPM and speed. Most folks try to rush the basket too much, on one hand, or are too "lazy" with their throttle, as in trying to have a sweetspot. You need to work your throttle constantly, which in return means you need to work your stick constantly. It is like a balancing game. But, the more patient you approach the basket, the more you creep up to it, the smaller your throttle work and thus the smaller your stick-work and trim re-adjustment will be. Practice flying a steady formation on the tanker first. The experience gained from this will make rejoining for you much much smoother.

Everything starts with training your formation skills. Even BFM.

[Bosun]

Out of curiousity, what do other folks have your pitch and yaw axis curves set too?  I had mine at 25, but I do not have fine-enough control to allow for corrections on input that are not over-exaggerated.  I've currently got them set to 36 now, and having *better* results.  Are there any settings for FLCS or flaps or spoilers that I may be missing here?
 

[Jayhawk1971]

Zero, zero, zero. No curves. 

[Bosun]

I went back and tried this with significantly reduced curves, and finally successfully paired up with the basket.  I'm going back and reducing my curves for all the craft I have capable of mid-air refueling now.  Originally, I had followed the suggestion to put curves in for allowing softer correction on aiming, but it appears that doesn't work well with mid-air refueling.  I also engaged autopilot controls and as long as I engaged them within tolerance of my velocity needed, I could micro adjust within it to a very helpful degree, and was able to hold much better course.

Thanks for the suggestions, I think lowering the curves instead of increasing them, and the autopilot made the largest difference.

[Jayhawk1971]

The Tomcat's controls are analog, so curves are completely unnecessary and detrimental to its performance. It's the best setting for the Tomcat, even if you don't have a flight stick extension. Treat it like a WWII warbird.

I too started with curves (it was being mentioned in a couple of guides when I first got into the module, after all), but as was suggested by the "Tomcat pros", I quickly went to zero curves. It'll take a while getting used to the very light touch the (simulated) Tomcat requires, and every time you come back after "cheating" on her with a FBW-module like the Viper or the Hornet, you'll pay for it by having to get reacquainted with her controls.  

Edited December 27, 2021 by Jayhawk1971

[Home Fries]

The way I describe stick motion is not so much to "make small changes," but rather "think about where you want to go", and your subconscious will move the stick about as much as it should.  Of course, this advice is less valuable if you have a stick extension.

The other key to this is a relaxed grip.  My primary flight instructor always said that I should have two fingers and a thumb holding the stick, and holding the stick with a closed fist it was a bad thing.  While this may be more difficult with something like a Warthog, I tell people "pretend you're at a NYC cocktail party and just extend your pinkie finger."  This forces you to relax that death grip you may not have realized you had.

Finally, if you're getting started with arial tanking, I recommend some mellow Pink Floyd in the background.  That's the mentality you should be in.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Home Fries

[Callsign JoNay]

I totally disagree with the no curves mafia. It's just simple logic. Adding curves dedicates a larger portion of the total resolution of each axis to near the center  where you need to make precise movements. You don't need the same precision on the extremes of the axes. If zero curves was beneficial to AAR or flying tight formation than negative curves would be even more so, which is obviously not true. 

 

Don't listen to others. Everyone's stick and body combination is different. You have to experiment and find your own curves that work best for you.

[draconus]

Woah, what mafia? Guy just asked what curves we use and no curves  setting have happen to help him. I personally prefer no curves and that's it - up to anyone to decide.

[Callsign JoNay]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

Woah, what mafia? Guy just asked what curves we use and no curves  setting have happen to help him. I personally prefer no curves and that's it - up to anyone to decide.

Just joking man, relax.

[Whistler_RIO]

13 hours ago, Callsign JoNay said:

Just joking man, relax.

Mafia, Ayyy, Ohhhh! what mafia? there is no mafia!  we are just hard-working Sicilian immigrants here! fuggetaboutit!  

next week, have my money...

[Jayhawk1971]

[Dragon1-1]

Just my ten cents from a lesson I got yesterday - remember to put your probe switch all the way up if you're flying with bags.  Because if you don't, and are trying to top up, you will connect fine, but you won't take any fuel. I had to disconnect and check my switches.  

[draconus]

18 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Because if you don't, and are trying to top up, you will connect fine, but you won't take any fuel.

You will but only to fill internal tanks.

Edit: only fuselage tanks actually.

Edited December 30, 2021 by draconus

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, should've said top them up. See what happens when you don't use a checklist?  Either way, you'll be left wondering "why am I a several thousand pounds of gas short?"

[Hector45]

2 hours ago, draconus said:

You will but only to fill internal tanks.

I used to think this as well but it will only fill your fuselage tank. External tanks and internal wing tanks won't fill unless switch is all the way up