AWLS Channels

[Captain Orso]

Isn't it about time that the AWLS channels are included on the standard kneeboard airfield cards?

[Ramsay]

Isn't it about time that the AWLS channels are included on the standard kneeboard airfield cards?

 

The AV-8B is still in early access, AWLS is ICLS anyway, so you should be using a TACAN approach if flying realistically.

 

There's nothing to stop Razbam adding a AWLS/ILS page to the module's own set of pages - but first, they'll want to get their AWLS/ILS channels working in Nevada*.

 

*note: It also doesn't make alot of sense to have AWLS at Tiblisi, Mineralnye Vody, Belsan, Sochi and Nalchik, as AWLS is designed to be used with TACAN to line up on the approach vector and none of those airfields have TACAN.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Ramsay

[Captain Orso]

IIRC AWLS is kind of on the basis of TACAN technology (same or similar equipment), but isn't like an extension of a standard TACAN setup, but a completely different set of senders (different frequencies, directional antennas, etc).

 

I believe we only have AWLS where they also have at least ILS, but whether the AV-8B is simply configured to use the ILS signal and to "act" like it were receiving AWLS signals idk. Maybe?

 

When I look at the file which defines the AWLS fields, I see that it includes the ILS radio frequencies as a part of each field's set of definitions(??). although ILS and AWLS have nothing to do with one-an-other.

 

If AWLS is controlled by something other than this lua file, it ought to be published in the standard charts, if not, the it would make no sense to do that, because the user could change those at any time.

[Ramsay]

In real life AWLS = ICLS (same equipment/microwave radar) but, as Razbam designed/implemented the Harrier's AWLS before ICLS in DCS was a thing, they made it compatible with DCS's ILS.

 

As the real Harrier AWLS has no way to set a ILS frequency (it uses one of the 20 ICLS channels), DCS AWLS/ILS frequencies are set via a lua file.

 

The DCS Harrier AWLS is a bit of a fudge but about 45% owners (small survey) want it to remain as is, which is fine - however it needs fixing so it works in Nevada, etc.

 

AN/TPN-30B (a portable AWLS/ICLS station with integrated TACAN)

 

 

In use (by F/A-18's)

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Ramsay

[Captain Orso]

Since the AV-8B is the first modern aircraft I've flown, I don't know what he differences in ILS and ICLS implementation are.

 

What I do understand is how AWLS is supposed to work in the AV-8B.

 

Just a short side note. I'm not sure since when, but at 2.5.4.28090 AWLS is not working AT ALL. I get no directional cues at all, even if I'm lined up visually directly with the runway. :mad:

 

What has been on my mind since I got the AV-8B in November is, using TACAN and AWLS on FARPs especially along with SUNTAGS' DCS Marsden Farp mod, which would be abso-freakin-lutely awesome. With the AN/TPN-30B portable AWLS/ICLS station with integrated TACAN this would be possible; and it would be also great for using with the Viggen too.

 

But, to implement a portable TACAN/AWLS station, the mission creator must be able to program the frequencies the station will utilize AND the player must be able to input them during mission, or at the very least have them all pre-programmed by the mission creator, which would not be possible with a pre-configured lua file. I think the former solution would be the better, more flexible, solution.

 

From reading the AN_ARN128_config.lua file, it appears that RB is simply using ILS for AWLS. Maybe the real AV-8B works kind of like this lua file, in that slots are pre-programmed into the MC. If that's the case, RB needs to allow mission creators to 'add modifications' to what is defined in this file in the ME.

 

There is much potential to be found in AWLS. I hope RAZBAM will make use of that potential.

[Vfa-81 Fix]

Just a short side note. I'm not sure since when, but at 2.5.4.28090 AWLS is not working AT ALL. I get no directional cues at all, even if I'm lined up visually directly with the runway. :mad:

 

From reading the AN_ARN128_config.lua file, it appears that RB is simply using ILS for AWLS. Maybe the real AV-8B works kind of like this lua file, in that slots are pre-programmed into the MC. If that's the case, RB needs to allow mission creators to 'add modifications' to what is defined in this file in the ME.

 

It does work.

Just made a quick test landing at Senaki (Channel 04).

 

In theory you should be able to add a ILS station by modifiying your AN_ARN128_config file but I´m not sure if that actually works. Tried it once and couldn´t get it to work.

 

It sure would be great if we could have a placeable ILS station, could have a set Freq at Channel 20. Maybe one of the talented modders would like to take care of that.

[Mecrutio]

I think part of being a pilot is to be inventive. What would you do if the AWLS is gone, low viz but still got control?

 

I learned to enter new waypoints. Go to the kneeboard and find the coordinates to your desired airfield. As a new entry. Box; EHSI, DATA. ODU-WPT. UFC, enter the number of the last waypoint and the new waypoint together. (89) ODU -WPT. UFC, CLEAR, enter the new wpt#. ODU-POS. Enter coordinates. Cycle POS to check. (You'd be glad you did) Unbox DATA. Set desired course.

 

Its really rough. Not as helpful as AWLS, but you can enter any coordinate you want after this.

 

I mention this only as an aid. I do agree with the OP tho. If AWLS. uses TACAN, could it get tied to an LHA?

 

 

:book:

[Captain Orso]

It does work.

Just made a quick test landing at Senaki (Channel 04).

 

I don't get this. I've used AWLS before, and I've even gone back and re-read the instructions to insure I've not forgotten anything, but basically from the docs and my previous experience, all you have to do is

- Put EHDS on an MPCD

- Press AWLS on the UFC

- Enter the slot number (1-20)

- Press On-Off on the UFC so that ON appears

and that's it. You don't have to re-enter the TACAN channel, nor anything else.

 

On the EHDS MPCD, AWLS should already be boxed after doing the above and you should have the steering prompt scales on the HUD. All this works, except I don't get the steering prompts themselves and I've tried Kobuleti, Senaki-Kohlki, and Kutaisi already :cry:

 

In theory you should be able to add a ILS station by modifiying your AN_ARN128_config file but I´m not sure if that actually works. Tried it once and couldn´t get it to work.

 

I believe every airfield on the Caucasus map with ILS is already in the AN_ARN128 file; so there is nothing one might add that might work.

 

To paraphrase, ".. try to realize the truth -- there is no ILS". For ILS to work in DCS, the necessary data must be programmed into the map; the exact location of the runway threshold, the exact direction it is facing, and the frequency to which the aircraft receivers must be set.

 

First, DCS would need the coding to actually receive the data otherwise already found in the map files to so-to-say spawn ILS functionality for a new map location. Adding an airfield name and frequency number to the AN_ARN128_config lua file certainly cannot do any of that.

 

It sure would be great if we could have a placeable ILS station, could have a set Freq at Channel 20. Maybe one of the talented modders would like to take care of that.

 

I think ED would first need to add the functionality to add new ILS data through a mission. The rest should be comparatively easy.

[Vfa-81 Fix]

I don't get this.

Me neither. But I do have a radical, never before heard of idea - show us a track recording and maybe we can understand what´s going on there.

 

I believe every airfield on the Caucasus map with ILS is already in the AN_ARN128 file; so there is nothing one might add that might work.

 

I wanted to add an Airfield at the PG map. I might have done somthing wrong, so this may or may not work but has nothing to do with your problem anyway.

 

To paraphrase, ".. try to realize the truth -- there is no ILS". For ILS to work in DCS, the necessary data must be programmed into the map; the exact location of the runway threshold, the exact direction it is facing, and the frequency to which the aircraft receivers must be set.

 

The ILS is where the Tacan is, at least in Senaki. If you dial in the TCN you´ll get the same distance/ heading readout as when dialing in the ILS.

 

I think ED would first need to add the functionality to add new ILS data through a mission. The rest should be comparatively easy.

 

One guy from the HB team did already showcase a mobile ILS (or TILS), but for whatever reason choose not to make it available:

[Captain Orso]

Me neither. But I do have a radical, never before heard of idea - show us a track recording and maybe we can understand what´s going on there.

 

:eek: *gasp*... well, I'll see what I can do along those lines ;)

 

I wanted to add an Airfield at the PG map. I might have done somthing wrong, so this may or may not work but has nothing to do with your problem anyway.

 

Entry format is thus:

 

awls_channels[18] = {}

awls_channels[18]["name"] = "McCarran International"

awls_channels[18]["runway"] = "25"

awls_channels[18]["ils_freq"] = 110.30

awls_channels[18]["tacan_ch"] = 116

awls_channels[18]["tacan_xymod"] = 0

awls_channels[18]["ils_gs"] = 3.0

awls_channels[18]["ils_az_os"] = 0

awls_channels[18]["ils_el_os"] = 0

 

My suggestions:

The runway must have an ILS already on it.

Name - use the name of the airfield the ME shows. This could be important, bc ILS frequencies are often used for multiple runways on different airfields, so they cannot identify a specific runway by themselves.

Runway - the one corresponding the the ILS frequency at the airfield, and listed in the airfield chars (kneeboard) for the PG map.

Tacan - if the runway has TACAN add its channel number only; without the 'X' or 'Y'.

Tacan_xymod - probably 'X', but check the same charts as above.

Rest - leave at '0'

Insure that awls_channels is on [19] for all the lines belonging to that entry; EG awls_channels[19] = {}

 

 

 

The ILS is where the Tacan is, at least in Senaki. If you dial in the TCN you´ll get the same distance/ heading readout as when dialing in the ILS.

 

Well, I can't compare with the A-10C with actual ILS, bc I haven't installed, nor learned it. I'm not sure what AWLS does with airfields with AWLS, but not TACAN.

 

One guy from the HB team did already showcase a mobile ILS (or TILS), but for whatever reason choose not to make it available:

 

Looks like way early in the development of the Viggen. It does kind of beg the question, why ED wouldn't want to have that in DCS.

[Captain Orso]

:eek: *gasp*... well, I'll see what I can do along those lines ;)

 

B-be gentle guys :huh:

Cauc AWLS Demo 20190307.04.trk

[Vfa-81 Fix]

B-be gentle guys :huh:

 

Does not play well here.

Plane ends in the grass before reaching the runway, sorry.

[Ramsay]

B-be gentle guys :huh:

 

Does not play well here.

Plane ends in the grass before reaching the runway, sorry.

 

Same, but I was able to look at Captain Orso's mission.

 

There is a light wind from the West (5 kts toward 67°T) and Kobuleti ATC/aircraft are using RWY 25 which does not have ILS.

 

Only RWY 07 has ILS and that is turned off, hence you will not detect a ILS signal.

[Captain Orso]

Same, but I was able to look at Captain Orso's mission.

 

There is a light wind from the West (5 kts toward 67°T) and Kobuleti ATC/aircraft are using RWY 25 which does not have ILS.

 

Only RWY 07 has ILS and that is turned off, hence you will not detect a ILS signal.

 

Ramsay, if this were Quiz of the Week, you'd be the winner! I confirm, that was the issue. Just spurt over to Batumi, where only runway 12 in active and AWLS is on, even with a light tail wind.

 

It's still useless as all f*ck, but the cues are there.

 

Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this threat. It also confirmed that DCS has one of the best communities anywhere :thumbup:

[Fynek]

Could someone please tell me where i can get the AWLS channels list for the Georgia and Persian Gulf map?

[Captain Orso]

There is only one "list", that is, there is only one file in which AWLS is defined, so it's not per map.

 

The quickest way to the list is through Chuck's AV-8B NA Harrier Guide (page 165), which you can find and download from here: Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

 

The actual file defining all this is here: '..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World{ OpenBeta}\Mods\aircraft\AV8BNA\Cockpit\Scripts\RadioNav\AN_ARN128_config.lua'. It's not as user-friendly as Chuck's Guide, but you can also change this file to your liking, but all the airfields with ILS -- which is required -- are already in the list, and adding an airfield, which doesn't have ILS simply will not work.

[Ramsay]

Could someone please tell me where i can get the AWLS channels list for the Georgia and Persian Gulf map?

 

Caucasus Map

 

Georgia's AWLS channels are listed on page 121 of the manual

 

• DCS World\Mods\aircraft\AV8BNA\Doc\AV8BNA Pocket Guide.pdf

 

and on page 165 of Chuck's DCS AV-8B Harrier Guide

 

AFAIK (DCS 2.5.4), the Harrier's AWL/ILS is working as designed in Georgia.

 

Nevada and the Persian Gulf Maps

 

AWLS (ICLS) has a total of 20 channels and DCS's AV-8B is programed to use 18 of them for Georgia and Nevada ILS.

 

Last time I checked (DCS 2.5.4) the Harrier's AWL wasn't working in Nevada.

 

To use the Harrier's AWL in the Persian Gulf, you'll need to edit a .lua file

 

• DCS World\Mods\aircraft\AV8BNA\Cockpit\Scripts\RadioNav\AN_ARN128_config.lua

 

and set one of the AWL channels to use the correct ILS frequency for your desired airfield.

 

Note: I don't know if AWL is working in the Persian Gulf or if it's broken like Nevada.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Ramsay

[Fynek]

Thank you very much guys!

[chardly38]

Ramsay could you show us how to edit the AN_ARN128_config.lua to work with the Tarawa.

AWLS is not working in NTTR.

[Ramsay]

Ramsay could you show us how to edit the AN_ARN128_config.lua to work with the Tarawa.

 

TL;DR:

 

AFAIK it's not possible as the DCS Harrier's AWLS has been coded to use ILS, and is not compatible with ED's ICLS implementation.

 

Detail:

 

I have played with the Tarawa's .lua

 

• DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\AV8BNA\LHA_Tarawa.lua

 

so it's ICLS localizer was lined up with the deck (it has a 9° offset like the Stennis by default) and tested the glide slope / OLS in a Hornet - just to see if was working, but it's not something Razbam's own Harrier can use.

[AleCisla]

Hello guys,

 

So basically there's no ILS on the Persian Gulf map (nor any aviation/navigation charts) and we can't use ICLS on the Tarawa, which "belongs" to the Harrier by nature.. is this right? :(

[Norsegunar]

Hello guys,

 

So basically there's no ILS on the Persian Gulf map (nor any aviation/navigation charts) and we can't use ICLS on the Tarawa, which "belongs" to the Harrier by nature.. is this right? :(

 

For the AWLS you'd need to go into the radio file for the Harrier(Zeus has posted on how to do this) and add in the ILS stations for the PG for the following airfields that have ILS:

Al Maktoum Intl

Al Minhad AB

Dubai Intl

Sharjah Intl

Khasab

Fujairah Intl

Havadarya

Bandar Abbas Intl

Lar Airbase

 

The Tarawa doesn't use ICLS, for poor weather landing you use TACAN and the ball on the back of the island.

[Ramsay]

So basically there's no ILS on the Persian Gulf map

 

Not at the moment but Razbam said on their FB page :

 

The AV-8B NA kneeboard now displays the AWLS channel list.

 

The AWLS channel list changes based on the selected map. The only map without AWLS is Normandy since it is a 1940s map.

 

(nor any aviation/navigation charts)

Not sure what you mean - the AV-8B EHSD has it's moving map and nav aids and airports can be read from the F10 map.

 

Snoopy said this of the Persian Gulf:

ED has never made charts to go along with the maps. Everything that’s included was either made by the community and added by ED (Caucasus) or real world (NTTR). Charts for the PG area aren’t easily acquired through google so unless a community members creates, and agrees to let ED include them it ain’t gonna happen.

 

and we can't use ICLS on the Tarawa, which "belongs" to the Harrier by nature.. is this right? :(

 

Correct and as Razbam are adding per map ILS kneeboard pages, it doesn't look like the Harrier will ever get a realistic AWLS, so there'll be no CASE 3, AWLS landings on the Tarawa.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Ramsay
typo

[Ramsay]

The Tarawa doesn't use ICLS, for poor weather landing you use TACAN and the ball on the back of the island.

 

The Tarawa and similar use AN/SPN-41A ICLS, TACAN is used for the marshal and to line up on the AWLS/ICLS microwave beam in the same way as the Hornet and Tomcat.

 

Razbam have not modelled the AWLS realistically, instead making it a fictional ILS system, therefore in DCS you must use TACAN all the way until visual of the Tarawa (it's an option IRL but shouldn't be the only option).

 

AWLS/ICLS has 20 pre-set channels, which is why there is no way to set or tune an ILS frequency in the cockpit and the pilot sets channel 1, 2, 3, etc.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Ramsay

[Mikaa]

My hope is that as ED continues to flesh out the Naval aspect of DCS, Razbam will jump on the bandwagon and alter the AV8B's AWLS to represent its RL counterpart. I can understand the reasoning behind adapting it for land based use, but for me, one of the major draws to DCS is attempting to replicate RL procedures; it seems a bit "off" to leave the aircraft without a fundamental capability such as this.

 

Heck I'd even be happy with the choice of toggling it in the menu (similar to the INS) so players can use it they way they'd like to play. Obviously this is easier said than done, and I don't know much about the coding required to implement something like this, but maybe it's possible to have either-or.

 

Just my 2c.