some1 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Now this is quite interesting. According to the real MiG-19S/P manual, the throttles and afterburners operated in a very different way to what we are used to from other "normal" airplanes. And also different from what Razbam currently implemented. There were actually two systems. Early MiG-19 batches had "traditional" throttles with two gates at the top: for maximum thrust, and for afterburner. There were no additional pushbuttons on the throttle base. The pilot could adjust the throttle smoothly from IDLE to NOMINAL power (first detent), and then push the throttle forward into MAXIMUM gate or even further to AFTERBURNER. The difference between NOMINAL and MAXIMUM power settings were that in nominal the nozzles were half way open, while in maximum they were fully closed. In AFTERBURNER they were fully open and of course reheat was engaged. Now the system which Razbam put in their model is the one installed in later MiG-19 series, and it was... unusual. It was designed so that the pilot still had fine throttle control even in MAX/AFTERBURNER, mostly for flying in formation at full power. It was done by varying engine RPM while afterburner was still engaged (in AB mode), or nozzles fully closed (in MAX mode). The system should operate like this: - There are no more detents on the throttle, instead we have those two additional pushbuttons: MAX and AFTERBURNER. - Even if the pilot slams the throttle full forward, he only gets NOMINAL thrust. - To engage either MAXIMUM or AFTERBURNER, he has to held the respective button for 1-2 sec and observe the correct lamp on the front panel illuminate. - Now as long the throttles stay in the first 16 degrees of travel from the full forward position, the engines will stay in MAX or AB mode, while the pilot can smoothly control engine RPM. - If the pilot throttles back past the 16 degrees position (there are physical detents at this position) it will disengage the MAX or AB mode and the nozles will return to their normal position. That 16 degrees throttle angle corresponds to 10'400 RPM, +- 200. - The system will engage only if at least one of the throttles is in the NOMINAL position (full forward). If the other throttle is not further back than 16 degrees from the top, the system will also engage on that engine too. - To engage MAX or AFTERBRUNER again the process has to be repeated. - Going from MAX to AB should be possible by pressing the AFTERBURNER button. - Going from AB to MAX is not possible directly, requires throttling back past 16 deg. detent, and then repeating the process. TL;DR Razbam should either remove the Maximum/Afterburner pushbuttons and pretend they simulate the earlier aircraft batches, or implement this system correctly. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Thanks some1, You´re right that this is the correct behavior of the throttle for this variant. This is being implemented for the next updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) Slightly unrelated but didn't want to open up a separate thread as I am aiming for realistic operation, after observing the nozzles closing only at MIL, I wonder if that means it is more fuel efficient at MIL then at NOMINAL? Edited March 16, 2019 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulredrel Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Thanks some1 for the great details. Looking forward to the changes before actually buying the module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 Thanks OverStratos for the info, appreciated. Slightly unrelated but didn't want to open up a separate thread as I am aiming for realistic operation, after observing the nozzles closing only at MIL, I wonder if that means it is more fuel efficient at MIL then at NOMINAL? Don't know, the manual I have doesn't have much info on the engine parameters in flight. I'd guess if the rpm is unchanged between nominal and max, then both modes use the same amount of fuel. But max may also bump rpm slightly, which could impose shorter operational limits and higher fuel burn. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 The nozzles only have two positions, closed and open. They remain open from IDLE to NOMINAL and then for AB. They only close when MIL is activated. As the nozzles close in MIL, the engine needs more fuel to maintain the same RPMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 The nozzles only have two positions, closed and open. They remain open from IDLE to NOMINAL and then for AB. They only close when MIL is activated. The nozzles have three positions. Open (IDLE, AFTERBURNER), half open (NOMINAL) and closed (MAXIMUM). They switch from open to half open at between 4500 - 5700 RPM, so I guess, they are mostly half closed in normal flight. Sorry for the Polish scans, but believe me, it's there ;) 1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Yes, you´re right, was talking form memory here, sorry.:D IDLE and AB: 498 -3 mm NOMINAL: 465 +/- 7 mm MIL: 442 +/- 7 mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=DECOY= Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Thought I would chime in here. These have been added to the 'To do list' But we cant gaurebtee they will be in the next update Water cooled i9-9900K | Maximus Code XI MB | RTX3090 | 64GB | HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverStratos Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Thought I would chime in here. These have been added to the 'To do list' But we cant gaurebtee they will be in the next update Yeah, sorry. When I said next updates y mean the following ones, not the immediate next. Not a native English speaker here.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulredrel Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Todays OB Changelog: DCS MIG-19 by RAZBAM FM Updates: Throttle logic and braking behavior. It's coming? Regards Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gulredrel Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 *bump* changelog Update 6th June 2019: Throttle logic corrected to design basic aircraft Did a short flight in 2.5.5 OB. Thanks RAZBAM for this update. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schurem Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 At first I thought it was a bug. Then I read this thread. Love it! I5 9600KF, 32GB, 3080ti, G2, PointCTRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Works amazing! Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 Yeah, nice job Razbam. :) Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries144 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 I came here trying to figure out why my afterburners stopped working- and I find this! Cool! Some1, thank you for bringing this up! Razbam, thank you very much for acknowledging this and getting a change implemented. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 FM Updates: Throttle logic and braking behavior. Noticed a change as well, read this thread and wow, I somehow like how it works now. Missed the HOTAS bindings though... but I probably just have to redo my input luas since you guys probably added those commands in meantime. But I still wonder about the AB cut switches. The tutorial sais I have to flick them up, but then the ABs won't light - instead they have to be down as opposed to all other switches. Kinda confusing. Well, it enables the AB cut, which in return disables them, but still the orientation is weird. Another things, just since it was mentioned in the same sentence: I find the braking behaviour weird at best. Full rudder and increasingly applying brake pressure, which should go to one side only, but the plane doesn't even start turning until applying like 75-80ish % of brake power, then she suddenly slings around rather quickly. This probably won't even show up at all when just using a button, but I use my FFB2 slider for that since I have a separate throttle unit and it just feels weird. It's extremely hard to do smooth taxiing in the 19 as opposed to every other module that has the same braking system (15, 21 and the L-39) which pretty much behave the same in that regard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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