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F14 Skinners thread (Paintkit in 1st post)


David A Sell

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27 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

It looks like partway through -70 the stiffeners/fences changed, then later partway through -75 the boat-tail shape changed.

 

By the tail shape, you mean the removal of the dielectric panels? Why were those removed? Structural reasons? 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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2 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

By the tail shape, you mean the removal of the dielectric panels? Why were those removed? Structural reasons? 

Yeah, I can't remember but I thought it may have been an aerodynamic thing? I'll have to dig again but it was something along those lines. While VF-201 and 202 got the rebuilt 60/65s, VF-301 and 302 basically got all of the old 70 and 75 jets from VF-1, VF-2, VF-14, and VF-32. 7-hole vents, the old beavertails, no alpha probes on the nose, no ALQ-126 additions.

I think Danny Coreman's A/B/D book has examples of each beavertail from the prototypes, early production, the -75 change, and then the final with the ALQ jammer built in like our current model. If we get an older 80s jet the model may still have that beavertail but I've just altered the paint and normals to sort of cover it up. I can live with the beavertail being wrong if we can get removable ALQ-126 and the old gun vents. That's really the only thing stopping anyone from doing good 70s-90s jets. Then you can use the "late" jet after everyone got the upgraded vents by around what, '92 or '93? Granted the ALR-67 is too late for most As but visually and most systems you're good for a 90s jet through 1998.

And for anyone in the Tomcat Association Facebook page, recently a photo of LANTIRN on the old TID was posted from the VF-103 testing in 1996. And a few VF-154 folks in As chipped in that they also had just the TID before PTIDs showed up somewhere around 1998. So ALR-67 aside, current A is pretty damn spot on for As between 96-98 before DFCS hit and PTIDs were rolled out more widely. And then ALR-67 somewhere between '98-2001 timeframe on those jets that were still in good condition. The 2001 training plan mentioned something like 60 A airframes were selected for that, which should have covered VF-14, 41, 154, and 211 who were the last A squadrons plus probably VF-101.

Anyways, here's Wonderwall aka ND-110, BuNO 158997 on the cat in 1987 with VF-301.

a-naval-air-reserve-fighter-squadron-301

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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10 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

 

And for anyone in the Tomcat Association Facebook page, recently a photo of LANTIRN on the old TID was posted from the VF-103 testing in 1996. And a few VF-154 folks in As chipped in that they also had just the TID before PTIDs showed up somewhere around 1998. So ALR-67 aside, current A is pretty damn spot on for As between 96-98 before DFCS hit and PTIDs were rolled out more widely. And then ALR-67 somewhere between '98-2001 timeframe on those jets that were still in good condition. The 2001 training plan mentioned something like 60 A airframes were selected for that, which should have covered VF-14, 41, 154, and 211 who were the last A squadrons plus probably VF-101.

 

 

Yeah, someone asked that question i think it was Hey Joe that chimed in. 

Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000C, Harrier AV-8B NA, F-5, AJS-37 Viggen, F-14B, F-14A, Combined Arms, F/A-18C, F-16C, MiG-19P, F-86, MiG-15, FW-190A, Spitfire Mk IX, UH-1 Huey, Su-25, P-51PD, Caucasus map, Nevada map, Persian Gulf map, Marianas map, Syria Map, Super Carrier, Sinai map, Mosquito, P-51, AH-64 Apache

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From my understanding, the dielectric panels were removed because their position right next to the engine nozzles made them vulnerable to warping and fatigue cracking. Unfortunately, removal increased drag. 

The individual Tomcats I find truly interesting are the Frankenstein jets the reserves were flying in the late 80's and early 90s, like 159025, which by the end of life had all the features of a modern F-14 (NACA gun vents, TCS pod, up-to-date nose probe arrangement) but still the old beaver tail and aft lighting set-ups. And it wasn't like this jet or others like it got shuffled off to the reserves after there were enough of the updated fuselages to go around. These birds stayed with the fleet for a while. 159025 was with VF-11 for a while in the 1980s.

DCSF-14AOK3A.jpg

DCSF14AOK3B.png

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3 hours ago, Swordsman422 said:

From my understanding, the dielectric panels were removed because their position right next to the engine nozzles made them vulnerable to warping and fatigue cracking. Unfortunately, removal increased drag. 

The individual Tomcats I find truly interesting are the Frankenstein jets the reserves were flying in the late 80's and early 90s, like 159025, which by the end of life had all the features of a modern F-14 (NACA gun vents, TCS pod, up-to-date nose probe arrangement) but still the old beaver tail and aft lighting set-ups. And it wasn't like this jet or others like it got shuffled off to the reserves after there were enough of the updated fuselages to go around. These birds stayed with the fleet for a while. 159025 was with VF-11 for a while in the 1980s.

Those are the ones I've been working on from VF-201, though most of theirs were rebuilt to the -135. They had a few other jets that came through which weren't and had differing blocks and condition it seems. 301 and 302 shut down somewhere around when VF-202 did and jets exchanged hands, with VF-201 retaining some of 202's better jets and the rest going off to VF-101, and eventually to the aforementioned A squadrons. Your mentioned 159025 is one that went from 302 to 202 but didn't last long apparently, struck in '94 soon after arriving at VF-202.

92592_1613636149.jpg

 

Sadly the last two A models built went straight from VF-202 to VF-101, as did VF-201's remaining -140. Only one of those is left out behind Pensacola, in pretty terrible shape.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd intended to see about reworking the two existing VF-103 JR skins to the 2002 cruise, since the "last ride" timeframe falls outside of what we have and this one actually relates to a Supercarrier module. I've been targeting AA-113 to replace the current 103 line jet and was going to adjust 103 to reflect 2002.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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My JR skins are indeed based on the default VF-103. Not much has changed between 2002 and 2004 so its easy if you know the BuNos and pilot/RIO/PC names. However, I struggle to find any information on any jet except 100, 103, 105 and 112 so I cant do the whole squadron. The clean 111 bird is thus also kind of fictional. I would also love to do some custom weathering (there is an awesome collection of close-up shots of AA112 showcasing the typical Tomcat weathering) but my basic painting skills aren't suited for that. 

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I've been digging on 113 in particular for a forum/discord member that wrenched on that jet in particular so it's been a longstanding project goal. It actually became the 101 jet I think for the final cruises. But, photos are few, not very clear, and vary when they were taken so there will probably be liberties there as well. Some shots have a blank canopy rail but a P/C, others I had partial names. With it being the high MODEX jet it would have been junior guys anyways.

I was looking at 2000 on the Washington, as that's where I had some of the photos. Same design generally but with Golden Wrench on the tail but this may have only been workups/quals:

DN-SD-03-12478.jpeg

Here closer with blank canopy rail:

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/aboard-the-uss-george-washington-cvn-73-an-f-14b-tomcat-attached-to-the-jolly-80d695

 

In 2002 the photos for 113 were few and not really clear:

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/us-navy-lt-cmdr-dennis-callahan-signals-an-f-14-d96c45?zoom=true

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/a-us-navy-f-14-tomcat-aircraft-assigned-to-fighter-bd1e97?zoom=true

 

I have a few more photos that were from FB groups, Flickr, etc. and weren't easy to find. Or in some cases were unlabeled and I happened to recognize the jet itself. I may have enough to do a plausible set of names for 113 on the 2002 cruise on the GW at least. 2000 would provide for a nice blank jet too. If someone's already done skins I try to work around that but there definitely are going to be instances where a skin might be done or redone and included with the module or if we can ever get skin packs. Like there's a VF-201 CAG jet that was added to the userfiles, and I wouldn't want them to get upset when mine's done. I probably should just send it out but I wanted to wait for the HGU-55 helmets and a few other fixes or options to come with the early jet if possible.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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I orginally did them for myself only since I wanted to have skins for a complete and time accurate airwing. They are quite basic and not 100% accurate but I thought better a mediocre skin than none at all, so I just uploaded them. If anyone comes up with a better version I wouldn't mind at all! IIRC isoko did some very good VF-103 skins but they are for the 2000-01 period and do not quite fit with my cvw-17 Hornet skins. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

For those wondering, this is what you will need to populate in the description.lua at the end to get the removed probe door:

custom_args = { [1616] = 1.0, }

Right now it loads when you do the rearm/reload menu but it may not on load into the sim, or for AI. That still needs to be added on ED's side to have the argument loaded on spawn apparently.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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3 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

For those wondering, this is what you will need to populate in the description.lua at the end to get the removed probe door:

custom_args = { [1616] = 1.0, }

Right now it loads when you do the rearm/reload menu but it may not on load into the sim, or for AI. That still needs to be added on ED's side to have the argument loaded on spawn apparently.

I love you ❤️

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 vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

image.png

 

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On 7/23/2022 at 8:12 PM, ShinyMikey said:

  The VF-301 skins look great, will they be available soon?

Thank you!  You might see ND111 & ND113.

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My research brings all the boys to the yard. Something something, it's good I don't chaaaaarrrrge.

What's sad is I have had more success researching other people's projects than my own. 1991 VF-31? Easy, plenty of pics in the Lock On book and elsewhere. VF-11 from the same cruise? Can't even get 1 jet other than the 100 or 101, maybe the 102 with all the names because they had 4x names per jet (more pilots than jets) that cruise. Vf-24 and VF-211's year or so with the A+? Barely a handful of pics that I can find, and maybe 1 or 2 have legible names, most MODEX from either squadron unphotographed or hiding in someone's shoebox. VF-11 from 1998 cruise? Forget about it!

Painting the jets is easy. Finding names, plane captains, obscure stencils that can barely even be hazily seen in a distant formation photo or from across the flight line and no closeups, or trying to discern if the early big engine jets had A+, A PLUS, or A(PLUS) stenciled on the nacelles is where the hard part is.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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  • 2 weeks later...
4 hours ago, SOLIDKREATE said:

Has anyone done all of VF-32? I used to be in that squadron. I can do it but it would save me a lot of time if someone has already done it.

The only full pack we have is 1976 F-14As. There's also OIF F-14Bs with four jets in the pack. I'm hoping someone will do their F-14As from the '86~'91 time frame.

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11 hours ago, Nealius said:

The only full pack we have is 1976 F-14As. There's also OIF F-14Bs with four jets in the pack. I'm hoping someone will do their F-14As from the '86~'91 time frame.

Thank you for sharing. Well, I my self am a skinner. I have skinned many aircraft in IL-2 Sturmovik. In fact I am the creator of over 300+ unit emblems for the career mode in that game. 86-91, I'd have to find images of those. I got to the command in 94'. They may have been unchanged by that time except for '00 and '01. They had blue vert.stabs when I got there. We did a lot of grey on grey. The plane my name was on as Plane Captain was 110. I'm also the guy who designed the patch you see in my profile pic avatar. Did it when I was 19 in the barracks. Used be known as the 'Purple Palace'.


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There are a lot of timeframes to fill in, with looming reworks of the base textures, panel lines, normals, etc. and earlier configurations coming it makes sense to hold up and do things once instead of having to completely rework skins later on. I get everyone wants every jet now, whether correct or not, but there's also a ton of work that goes into getting it *right*.

For those that don't care about the differences between the B and A, might as well go right ahead and start working on them. If a better way to manage optional skin packs can be done then absolutely expect a lot more "official" skins coming down the pipe with as many jets as you can shake a stick at. But the challenge right now is guys are already complaining about drive space, and adding 4x detailed skins per squadron per year/cruise, with a couple eras represented is already hammering on drive space, imagine that spread out across 3x different iterations of the F-14.

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VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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4 hours ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

But the challenge right now is guys are already complaining about drive space, and adding 4x detailed skins per squadron per year/cruise, with a couple eras represented is already hammering on drive space, imagine that spread out across 3x different iterations of the F-14.

I think I've mentioned this before, but so many schemes remained the same between cruises--even on different boats--that file size can be mitigated simply by omitting the ship name and canopy names. Hyper-detailed skins that appease the rivet-nazis could be limited to a few iconic BuNos rather than going full OCD on every single jet.

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4 hours ago, Nealius said:

I think I've mentioned this before, but so many schemes remained the same between cruises--even on different boats--that file size can be mitigated simply by omitting the ship name and canopy names. Hyper-detailed skins that appease the rivet-nazis could be limited to a few iconic BuNos rather than going full OCD on every single jet.

Keep calling people rivet-nazis and don't get all shocked pikachu faced when they stop making liveries.

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Heatblur Rivet Counting Squad™

 

VF-11 and VF-31 1988 [WIP]

VF-201 & VF-202 [WIP]

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