Oculus rift s is coming!

[Fri13]

Wider FOV in Pimax makes checking your six much easier.

 

In a dog fight you should know where you end up before you even perform the maneuver, question there is that do you know where the enemy is so you can perform the right one?

If the enemy is at your six, then it doesn't help much that can you see him or not, as you need to do the known challenging maneuvers to get him off your six.

 

And when you are cruising, you should do randomly the 90 degree turns to check your six, not just turn your head, as a enemy that is tailing you will be more difficult to spot by looking at his direction while he flies straight at you at the same flight path as you. But by performing 90 degree turn, you get to spot more easily even a small target as it is not anymore flying same flight path as you do even if flying straight at you. And that is where you can spot them.

 

The best option is with wingman, to position so that both of you can see each others sixes. That gives as well flexibility in the merge as either one of you can position themselves behind the attacker.

 

Yes, I want wider FOV. I want to have a about +-20-30 degree more. But not to check my six, but to check my eight and four 'clock. That is after a bombing drops that you pull a around and you can see at those directions how did you hit the target. And then you can see in the cockpit

better the controls, keep an eye of the HUD while looking to 10'clock or 2'clock, or when your heads down on the radar screen.

 

But I will exchange that FOV increasement totally for the higher resolution and clarity across the corner to corner. So less need to turn head to read any text in cockpit or lean forward to read a instrument.

[hansangb]

everyone who tried a pimax will concur, a bigger fov makes a huge difference. rift s is no improvement in my opinion, too little difference to predecessor... why make lesser fov then rift cv1, whats the point? the goggle effect is very much noticable on that one.

 

 

The thing is, if you've never tried 5K+, then you don't really know what you're missing (150 for medium). So the slight increase would be welcomed.

 

As a 5K+ user, it may be hard to go back to narrower FOV.

[Harlikwin]

I got the feeling from all the talks, that the Rift S is a "Vive PRO". And the Rift 2 is coming sooner than expected (Sooner than the Rift S came after Rift) and that is where they are going to put their big bet.

 

Rift S can sound a weak, bad or old compared to some of the others challengers on the market, but Oculus is now preparing for the end game.

 

Rift-S is more like a "vive weak" its got less res than the "pro". But you are right that they want to make cheap headsets for now to capture market share.

 

Honestly I think the HP reverb is Rift2... Look at the physical design and specs tell me I'm wrong. I think there is a good chance Occulus licensed it to them.

[some1]

In a dog fight you should know where you end up before you even perform the maneuver, question there is that do you know where the enemy is so you can perform the right one?[

.....

(a wall of text)

 

 

Yeah, sure, real pilots don't need to look back, I wonder why they even bother to install the bubble canopies on fighter aircraft.

[some1]

Rift-S is more like a "vive weak" its got less res than the "pro". But you are right that they want to make cheap headsets for now to capture market share.

 

 

Thing is, you're comparing pentile OLED to rgb LCD. While theoretically vive has better resolution, rift has more sub pixels and they are evenly distributed. it's quite possible image sharpness and especially text clarity will be better on the LCD, just like is the case with PIMAX 5k.

 

Of course hp reverb will be the unquestionable king of sharpness.

[YoYo]

In a dog fight you should know where you end up before you even perform the maneuver, question there is that do you know where the enemy is so you can perform the right one?

If the enemy is at your six, then it doesn't help much that can you see him or not, as you need to do the known challenging maneuvers to get him off your six.

 

Its a joke I suppose :D or You never did any online dogfight in DCS or IL-2. If not, I invite You and Im ready for Your six MiG-15bis vs Sabre or in IL-2. Some of tactics even allow you to have enemy on six so as next planned maneuver to make the opponent lose flight dynamics.

[Tinkickef]

I got the feeling from all the talks, that the Rift S is a "Vive PRO". And the Rift 2 is coming sooner than expected (Sooner than the Rift S came after Rift) and that is where they are going to put their big bet.

 

Now as they said in the interview with TESTED, that their goal now is to get as many as possible to the ecosystem.

 

You can't do that with a another 999€ headset. That is impossible The Rift started to sell only after the special summer sale 449€ + shipping appeared, and then they dropped the price to it and now it is below it.

 

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

 

Now look at the statics from Steam, a whopping 48,2% of the VR users are using Rift. Before that 449€ special sale, Rift had 1/3 of the market, while 2/3 were Vive!

 

But notice that only a 0,49% of the Steam users are using VR.

 

The market is extremely small! You get far better profits with a gaming keyboards and mouses, displays than you do with VR!

 

So Rift S is clearly a management decision, not engineering or visionary decision. Now they need to get that 0,5% market to grow to 2% or 5% and to do that the product needs to be cheap, it needs to be easily accessible, low hardware requirements, easy to use. Take a todays normal laptop, plug one USB in, clear space, draw a guardian wall around you and start gaming.

 

And if they can get that market to increase even by a another 0.5% and they can maintain their 50% market share, they are doing very well. If they can increase it to, lets say to 60% that is even better.

 

As there will always come a new and better GPU, new ways to deal motion (AWS 2.0) and better screens and sensors etc. But not at the price that majority would be ready to pay!

 

Rift S can sound a weak, bad or old compared to some of the others challengers on the market, but Oculus is now preparing for the end game.

 

Agreed. I said as much on r/oculus. Oculus are still committed to VR, but not the high end user at this moment in time. It is disappointing for we early adopters as we have waited so long for Rift 2, but there is no need for the pitchforks coming out.

People profess to be angry about the Rift S over on r/oculus. No idea why they should be angry. Oculus made a business decision, we the consumer are also free to make the same decision as to where we take our business.

 

FW Woolworth had an excellent business model when he declared "stack em high and sell em cheap". For a stable business, it is better to make £1 profit each from 100 customers, than £100 profit from 1 customer. You have to work harder for your profit, but you are investing in stability and future growth.

 

This is where Oculus is now. They are in for the long run.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Tinkickef

[Harlikwin]

Thing is, you're comparing pentile OLED to rgb LCD. While theoretically vive has better resolution, rift has more sub pixels and they are evenly distributed. it's quite possible image sharpness and especially text clarity will be better on the LCD, just like is the case with PIMAX 5k.

 

Of course hp reverb will be the unquestionable king of sharpness.

 

Yeah, I generally don't want to go into the weeds with it because both the type of display as you said and the quality of the actual optics make a pretty big difference in image quality. The easiest way to see is to look through both side by side :thumbup:

[Shortcut]

I think I'm going to wait and see what happens with the HTC Vive Cosmos. I'm very interested in the hand tracking they are talking about. If it would work in DC S and X Plane wouldn't it be nice if you could push buttons and flip switches without a controller.

[Harlikwin]

I think I'm going to wait and see what happens with the HTC Vive Cosmos. I'm very interested in the hand tracking they are talking about. If it would work in DC S and X Plane wouldn't it be nice if you could push buttons and flip switches without a controller.

 

Well, it also depends on what DCS actually ends up supporting. Near term I'm going with point control.

[Shortcut]

That's the reason I'm going to wait to purchase a VR. If I'm going to get into VR I would like to be ready for hand tracking. My 1080Ti is only 9 months old don't want to go out and purchase a 2080Ti would rather wait for the 3080Ti which must be right around the corner (wink). Hoping the 1080Ti can run the Comos at 40 - 45 frame and with little to no SDE waiting to see the specs may work out may not.

[hansangb]

--snippage--

This is where Oculus is now. They are in for the long run.

 

Which is perfectly OK for Oculus to decide. But Pimax Kickstarter proved that there is a market for higher end HMDs. And Oculus will lose the most loyal of their customers (albeit smaller population) in sim'ers.

 

The one thing I wonder though, is how many of us have evangelized VR to others? I know of three in my circle that purchased after I bought CV1. So I imagine Oculus will be dethroned as the king of VR. Even ED makes everything for Rift first.

[eaglecash867]

Its a joke I suppose :D or You never did any online dogfight in DCS or IL-2. If not, I invite You and Im ready for Your six MiG-15bis vs Sabre or in IL-2. Some of tactics even allow you to have enemy on six so as next planned maneuver to make the opponent lose flight dynamics.

 

Definitely agree with YoYo on this. A couple of old sayings about air combat.

 

"He who sees first, lives longest."

 

"Lose sight, lose the fight."

[nessuno0505]

how many of us have evangelized VR to others? I know of three in my circle that purchased after I bought CV1. So I imagine Oculus will be dethroned as the king of VR. Even ED makes everything for Rift first.

 

Rift s will use the same software as the present rift: you can switch from CV1 to rift s and continue to use DCS having exactly the same support. I have evangelized my brother, and now we both are thinking about upgrading from CV1 to rift s. Oculus wants to spread VR use and this kind of strategy IMHO is the best to do it: a 1000 bucks high-end headset would be bought by a little group of VR enthusiasts and this means less revenue, less money to invest, less developers, less titles. I hope a lot of people will buy rift s, and if this happens you can say oculus is still the king of VR: this is the only way to spread this technology and move it out from the niche in which it is now. Nevertheless, I can understand flight sims people who was hoping for a high-end device to unleash their brand new 2080ti, but there's something for them on the market too. I'm a flight simmer, but I agree with oculus strategy and I think I'll support it.

[Kreag]

So, I decided to try something out today. I was really looking forward to getting the Rift S, even if it is just a minor step up from my trusty old Rift. Everyone is saying that the Rift S is based on exactly, or almost exactly the same panel and optics as the Oculus GO.

 

So I hooked up my GO to ALVR and cranked up the resolution/bandwidth settings to attempt to see if it improved my experience in my F-18 cockpit.

 

It didn't :(

For some reason, that I do not understand, the text on the screens and placards were not as readable as in the Rift. Maybe it was ALVR compression side effects? Yes, there was less screendoor, but I don't really notice that in the heat of battle. What I do notice is my distinct inability to identify ground targets and clearly read my MFDs. Just thought I would throw that out there.. for what it's worth. Maybe ALVR has more of an affect than I think or maybe the Rift S actually has a better panel than the GO? I'd shoot for the HP Reverb or something similar with lots more pixels, but I don't think my 1070 will be able to do it.. and I don't have $2000 (Canadian) for a kickass graphics card upgrade.

[dburne]

Don't know that I would pass judgement on the S based on image you get in the Go.

This is not what the Go is designed for.

[Wmacky]

Rift s will use the same software as the present rift: you can switch from CV1 to rift s and continue to use DCS having exactly the same support. I have evangelized my brother, and now we both are thinking about upgrading from CV1 to rift s. Oculus wants to spread VR use and this kind of strategy IMHO is the best to do it: a 1000 bucks high-end headset would be bought by a little group of VR enthusiasts and this means less revenue, less money to invest, less developers, less titles. I hope a lot of people will buy rift s, and if this happens you can say oculus is still the king of VR: this is the only way to spread this technology and move it out from the niche in which it is now. Nevertheless, I can understand flight sims people who was hoping for a high-end device to unleash their brand new 2080ti, but there's something for them on the market too. I'm a flight simmer, but I agree with Oculus strategy and I think I'll support it.

 

 

That's great you have decided to support them with a purchase. I'm not going to. :)

 

I understand and support their decision. That's great for them, and for the future of social media, the coming mega verse, ETC. It's a sound business plan. And it's all very understandable.

 

BUT!!!!

 

I'm not Oculus, and I'm not Facebook. I'm not employed by them, nor do I own stock. Their future as a going concern is of no real interest to me. Even as a DK2, and Rift owner, they owe me nothing, and I owe them nothing. For those who held out for a TOTL HMD from them, I 'm sorry, but really couldn't you read the writing on the wall? All this is of no surprise is it?

 

Rather my concern is the best VR experience possible, at any reasonable cost. I'm older and have a decent paying job, so I'm not in Facebook's demographic of young students without jobs, or 20 / 30 somethings with young needy family's to support. (Been there / Done that) I'm off Facebooks radar, So I'm going with a HMD provider more in tune with my needs than the needs of their business model, or the future of their social network. At the moment, that appears to be Pimax, or HP. Thank goodness for competition. It's a beautiful thing!

Edited March 31, 2019 by Wmacky

[Tinkickef]

That's great you have decided to support them with a purchase. I'm not going to. :)

 

I understand and support their decision. That's great for them, and for the future of social media, the coming mega verse, ETC. It's a sound business plan. And it's all very understandable.

 

BUT!!!!

 

I'm not Oculus, and I'm not Facebook. I'm not employed by them, nor do I own stock. Their future as a going concern is of no real interest to me. They owe me nothing, and I owe them nothing. For those who held out for a TOTL HMD from them, I 'm sorry, but really couldn't you read the writing on the wall? All this is of no surprise is it?

 

Rather my concern is the best VR experience possible, at any reasonable cost. I'm older and have a decent paying job, so I'm not in Facebook's demographic of young student without jobs, or 20 / 30 somethings with young needy family's to support. (Been there / Done that) I'm off Facebooks radar, So I'm going with a HMD provider more in tune with my needs than the needs of their business model, or the future of their social network in the megaverse. At the moment, that appears to be Pimax, or HP. Think goodness for competition. It's a beautiful thing!

 

 

This.

 

I'm an Ex flyer and lifelong aviation nerd. I can't afford to fly anymore, so I invest my money in the systems that can get me closest to the actual experience of flying that I remember.

 

I don't give a flying F for an affordable headset that spotty yoofs can sit around in a virtual room with their friends virtual avatars, all arguing what the best colour the sofa should be changed to (I kid you not), I want a headset to recapture those heady days of flight and I am prepared to pay handsomely for it. Hour for hour, it is far less expensive than actually hiring an aircraft.

 

I have a lot of respect for Oculus and would love them to have produced the next headset I wanted to buy, but they haven't. So I'm now headed in a different direction.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Tinkickef

[crab]

I think it's foolish to consider the old guys with discretionary income a weak market because the demographic is increasing by the day. I had pong when it first came out so I suppose I was in somewhere near the ground floor insofar as electronic gaming. Eventually I had kids. Now they've had kids a few of which are getting old enough to game themselves. My kids are getting to where they have some discretionary money themselves nowadays so you've got 2 generations with some buying power and that second one may be small now but it's going to be growing massively in the not too distant future.

 

But whatever, someone will make and sell what I want and I've no love for the intelligence suck that is Facebook so I've no problem not sending any money their way.

[Fri13]

Its a joke I suppose :D or You never did any online dogfight in DCS or IL-2. If not, I invite You and Im ready for Your six MiG-15bis vs Sabre or in IL-2. Some of tactics even allow you to have enemy on six so as next planned maneuver to make the opponent lose flight dynamics.

 

Nothing you said made my comment invalid, actually more valid.

 

You can stare as much of your enemy you want, but if you can't fly as well he does, you fall. And you trying to see him all the time means you can't fly as you would otherwise.

 

I don't play your game, I don't go for situation where you would have advantage, I don't even need to kill you to make you fail.

[eaglecash867]

I think it's foolish to consider the old guys with discretionary income a weak market because the demographic is increasing by the day. I had pong when it first came out so I suppose I was in somewhere near the ground floor insofar as electronic gaming. Eventually I had kids. Now they've had kids a few of which are getting old enough to game themselves. My kids are getting to where they have some discretionary money themselves nowadays so you've got 2 generations with some buying power and that second one may be small now but it's going to be growing massively in the not too distant future.

 

But whatever, someone will make and sell what I want and I've no love for the intelligence suck that is Facebook so I've no problem not sending any money their way.

 

+1

 

I had no interest in being part of the negative IQ culture of Facebook either, but I was just sure Oculus was biding their time so they could release something better than what everybody else had. Now they've shown that they're not going to do that, so it just made my decision easier to leave the privacy invaders and data miners behind. If they're going to slap their enthusiast market in the face like that, they don't deserve my support. Time will tell if their new business model makes them more successful, but I'm not going to be artificially helping their numbers out of some sort of blind loyalty.

[Euan Emblin]

Hello everybody

 

 

This is an interesting discussion. As an avid long term high end flight sim enthusiast the revelation of VR has been a total game changer. I have had a CV1 Rift for nearly 3 years. Love this product which Oculus would have struggled to bring to fruition without the FB millions. Fact which doesn't buy never ending loyalty.

 

 

With the Rift S FB/Oculus lay a foundation for a sounder business footing with which to build future market share, resulting perhaps in a future high end HMD that will knock the socks off all the competition. That's their concern not mine.

 

 

Pimax or HP are the high end peformance leaders currently. Makes sense to go with one of them for my next purchase. Will decide over the next 6 months. If and when a new Rift pulls me back into their fold with their kickass uberalles wundermachine I will be happy to reacquaint myself with their product.

 

 

We are the consumer and our choice is always right for ourselves. Brand loyalty is much overrated.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Euan Emblin

[hansangb]

--snippage--

 

We are the consumer and our choice is always right for ourselves. Brand loyalty is much overrated.

 

Except in power tools. Once you go DeWalt, if feels like cheating every time pick up a Bosch, Ryobi, Black&Decker tools. :D

 

But here's the thing. DeWalt hasn't let me down and I continue to support them. The fact that Oculus dropped the ball in supporting our market segment means I'll *not* be buying from them. Unless of course the HMD that we all want comes out at the end of the year.

 

FB did their TAM studies and decided that casual gamer/users is the priority. So be it. I wish them well and bid them adieu.

[dburne]

Except in power tools. Once you go DeWalt, if feels like cheating every time pick up a Bosch, Ryobi, Black&Decker tools. :D

 

But here's the thing. DeWalt hasn't let me down and I continue to support them. The fact that Oculus dropped the ball in supporting our market segment means I'll *not* be buying from them. Unless of course the HMD that we all want comes out at the end of the year.

 

FB did their TAM studies and decided that casual gamer/users is the priority. So be it. I wish them well and bid them adieu.

 

I am pretty much with you there.

And I too have DeWalt.

[eaglecash867]

Except in power tools. Once you go DeWalt, if feels like cheating every time pick up a Bosch, Ryobi, Black&Decker tools. :D

 

Not to mention the fact that it feels like you're playing with a kid's toy compared to the DeWalt. :D Had a similar experience when I tried that "other" HMD. This situation is like DeWalt suddenly deciding they want to emulate Black & Decker because they want to get more people using power tools.

Edited April 1, 2019 by eaglecash867