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HP's Reverb VR Pro Headset


nervousenergy

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So some interesting discussion here on the whole SS and pd discussion. Does anyone know the render order of this. I assume DCS render is first so lets say its 1.2. Then WMR, and then steam does its SS on that? And eventually it gets downsampled to native?.

 

I guess what I'm getting at, in my mind you basically never want any part of that rendering pipline to drop below the headsets native resolution since at that point that becomes the "final" product. And also you want to minimize the number of "resolution changes", since each change in the pipe requires additional processing.

 

thoughts?


Edited by Harlikwin

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One thing I've noticed that maybe someone could help with.

I am long sighted - I can see fine at distance but need glasses for looking at monitors.

With the Vive Pro, I wore my glasses comfortably, and they certainly improved my vision in the headset.

Now, with the Reverb, I don't need my glasses, and in fact, they give a much less clear image. Without my glasses, text etc. is all clear.

That I thought was strange.

Secondly, if I am running fpsVR overlay in DCS using the Vive Pro, then the overlay looks perfect and sits well with DCS cockpits, etc. In the Reverb, this is not the case. Basically, the overlay looks like I'm looking at it cross-eyed, and I have to close one eye to see more clearly what it is telling me.

At first, I thought this might be an IPD issue as there is no hardware adjustment in the Reverb. However, I think I can dismiss that as I tried the full range of hardware IPDs on the VP, and there was none of the effect I am seeing in the Reverb.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Does anyone know of a workaround for the mouse pointer? I keep having to press Windows key and Y to get it to work.

 

Works fine for me, but I have the hand controllers disabled in DCS as they're pretty useless imo.

A small pie is soon eaten

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One thing I've noticed that maybe someone could help with.

I am long sighted - I can see fine at distance but need glasses for looking at monitors.

With the Vive Pro, I wore my glasses comfortably, and they certainly improved my vision in the headset.

Now, with the Reverb, I don't need my glasses, and in fact, they give a much less clear image. Without my glasses, text etc. is all clear.

That I thought was strange.

Secondly, if I am running fpsVR overlay in DCS using the Vive Pro, then the overlay looks perfect and sits well with DCS cockpits, etc. In the Reverb, this is not the case. Basically, the overlay looks like I'm looking at it cross-eyed, and I have to close one eye to see more clearly what it is telling me.

At first, I thought this might be an IPD issue as there is no hardware adjustment in the Reverb. However, I think I can dismiss that as I tried the full range of hardware IPDs on the VP, and there was none of the effect I am seeing in the Reverb.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I can't see very well at distance but up close things are fine. Every headset I have had, I've had to wear my contact lenses for everything to be clear and sharp.

 

It may just be that the ipd or fov of the Reverb isn't as good for you as it is in the VP? Odd that with your glasses the Reverb does not show up just as clear as the Vive which would make me think it has something to do with the sweetspot of the reverb being off for you vs the Vive.

 

I know with the Cv1 my sweetspot was fairly simple to find and the mechanical ipd adjustment helped but with the odyssey the sweetspot is harder to find, I have to have the headset very tight against my face and make sure it stays that way for everything to be clear and focused. The software ipd did nothing for me in the odyssey, just made things a bit clearer or blurrier based on if I was pushing the lenses closer together vs further apart using only the ipd wheel dial.

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One thing I've noticed that maybe someone could help with.

I am long sighted - I can see fine at distance but need glasses for looking at monitors.

With the Vive Pro, I wore my glasses comfortably, and they certainly improved my vision in the headset.

Now, with the Reverb, I don't need my glasses, and in fact, they give a much less clear image. Without my glasses, text etc. is all clear.

That I thought was strange.

Secondly, if I am running fpsVR overlay in DCS using the Vive Pro, then the overlay looks perfect and sits well with DCS cockpits, etc. In the Reverb, this is not the case. Basically, the overlay looks like I'm looking at it cross-eyed, and I have to close one eye to see more clearly what it is telling me.

At first, I thought this might be an IPD issue as there is no hardware adjustment in the Reverb. However, I think I can dismiss that as I tried the full range of hardware IPDs on the VP, and there was none of the effect I am seeing in the Reverb.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

Well, each headset will have focal point that will be different. I though the general focal distance for most was something like 6-10ft.

 

Not sure on the cross-eyed thing. Is it in a corner?

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One thing I've noticed that maybe someone could help with.

I am long sighted - I can see fine at distance but need glasses for looking at monitors.

With the Vive Pro, I wore my glasses comfortably, and they certainly improved my vision in the headset.

Now, with the Reverb, I don't need my glasses, and in fact, they give a much less clear image. Without my glasses, text etc. is all clear.

That I thought was strange.

Secondly, if I am running fpsVR overlay in DCS using the Vive Pro, then the overlay looks perfect and sits well with DCS cockpits, etc. In the Reverb, this is not the case. Basically, the overlay looks like I'm looking at it cross-eyed, and I have to close one eye to see more clearly what it is telling me.

At first, I thought this might be an IPD issue as there is no hardware adjustment in the Reverb. However, I think I can dismiss that as I tried the full range of hardware IPDs on the VP, and there was none of the effect I am seeing in the Reverb.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

 

It depends on the lens used by the HMD manufacturer. And this is where the "specs" and reality start to diverge a bit. And it also means that focal distance should be a mandatory thing that manufacturers publish. It's a balancing act between what the HMD lens is doing, what your glasses are supposed to do, and what your eyes are capable (or incapable) of doing.

 

So for the glass question, you have to experiment unless you have answers to all of the above (len focal distance, how the fresnel captures the rays etc.) The video in the link below explains it very clearly.

 

 

As for the FPS, it may be a parallel projection issue that us Pimax users have to contend with. If you google that, you can read about all the glory.

 

 

 

 

https://vr-lens-lab.com/lenses-for-virtual-reality-headsets/

hsb

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I can't see very well at distance but up close things are fine. Every headset I have had, I've had to wear my contact lenses for everything to be clear and sharp.

 

It may just be that the ipd or fov of the Reverb isn't as good for you as it is in the VP? Odd that with your glasses the Reverb does not show up just as clear as the Vive which would make me think it has something to do with the sweetspot of the reverb being off for you vs the Vive.

 

I know with the Cv1 my sweetspot was fairly simple to find and the mechanical ipd adjustment helped but with the odyssey the sweetspot is harder to find, I have to have the headset very tight against my face and make sure it stays that way for everything to be clear and focused. The software ipd did nothing for me in the odyssey, just made things a bit clearer or blurrier based on if I was pushing the lenses closer together vs further apart using only the ipd wheel dial.

Thanks for that. It’s not a sweet spot thing as everything looks very clear without my glasses, and I don’t think it’s a IPD thing for the reasons I mentioned above. I tried all IPDs in the Vive and the overlay issue with fpsVR didn’t occur.

Well, each headset will have focal point that will be different. I though the general focal distance for most was something like 6-10ft.

 

Not sure on the cross-eyed thing. Is it in a corner?

No, it follows you around just below where you are looking.

Hmm, there is something slightly weird going on.

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OK a quick review now I got it up and running in DCS and something for the Huey Pilots out there.

 

I have had it running about an hour in WMR and maybe half an hour in DCS once I got audio sorted out. Still have not got buttkicker working again yet.

 

 

I am not concentrating on settings because others have covered those, I will deal with the overall experience.

 

Do not be disheartened by this review, it is very early days, I have not even got close to ironing out the wrinkles yet, nor am I proficient or comfortable yet in using the software.

I had my Rift since the first preorders were shipped and it was like a pair of comfortable old slippers. Naturally my first impressions are coloured by comparing them.

 

My troubles have been well documented a few posts ago, let's just say it wasn't a straight forward experience if you are used to Rift. However, others have found it easy. It really depends on what drivers ect you are using, if your PC has auto updates on, and if you are used to using Steam VR.

Also, God forbid you do not have my luck.

 

Fit, Ease of Use and Comfort.

 

Firstly, I covered this in an earlier post. Glasses wearers.... I have found the Reverb far better than the Rift in this regard. I have tried glasses that would not fit in the Rift, there is definitely more room in there. However, if you enjoy sporting eyewear of the type Elton John enjoys, you will be disappointed. More room for specs, but it is not an aircraft hanger.

 

Fit.

I have fiddled quite a bit with the straps, but failed to match the comfort of the Rift so far. Despite the similar straps, I struggled to find a position where I could keep my eyes in the sweet spot and the weight off my nose area. I have not given up, I am sure I will get there in the end.

As in an earlier post, I found the Reverb to be more front heavy than the Rift.

I once read of people adding counterweight to the rear of the Rift for this problem and maybe this is a possibility.

Also, I am a speccy four eyes, so it maybe that the headset is applying pressure to my nose through the specs somehow, but they don't appear to be touching anything inside.

 

The cable is a real problem compared to the relatively lightweight Rift type. It is a shotgun cable which is thick, weighty and stiff. With Rift I had a mast with a retractable dog lead at the top to hold the cable overhead and pay out / retract the cable as required. The Reverb cable is simply too heavy for it and it loops round the back of the chair. It is annoying when turning the head and breaks immersion.

 

Audio.

The stock earphones are OK, but not a patch on the Rift. They lack articulation at both ends, so the earphones sit at an angle to the ear. This results in a loss of sound quality due to poor sealing.

I will remove mine and use earbuds when I get everything set up. Luckily HP seem to acknowledge this by providing a convenient earphone jack on the headset.

It may be that the Rift double articulation setup is patented.

EDIT: it does have double articulation but it was so stiff it seemed it had not. The effort required to move the earpieces were such that it seemed like they would break. Bending the earphones into place helps a bit, but for me, earbuds are going to be the order of the day.

 

Tracking.

 

No complaints so far, then again my Rift tracking was not exactly reliable, often finding myself like a child sat in the Hog seat looking up at the panel, then jumping back to normal size. It will not be hard to improve on.

 

Seeing out to operate keyboard ect...

 

The Reverb needs pass through cameras enabled period.

It is very hard to peer down the nose gap due to the nose gasket and still be able to focus on the keyboard. The headset does swivel up out of the way on its hinges a little, but this absolutely kills immersion when instructing ground crew ect. One second you are in a cockpit, the next you are in a room.

Those with voice attack will not mind, but sadly voice recognition has major fits over my broad Yorkshire accent.

 

I did try removing the nose gasket (do not try this at home, it is an absolute pig to refit) to peer down the nose gap, but this allowed a very sharp edge to touch my nose. Very uncomfortable, although you could see down the gap just like Rift. I may experiment with this later.

 

 

Controllers.

 

Certainly not touch controllers. Cheap and clunky. I tried several times last night and a couple of times this morning to pair them. WMR portal said I needed a Bluetooth dongle so I ordered one. Someone said that a dongle is not required, so I tried again with manual pairing. This time they paired fine, something changed between downloading windoze 1809 and then when again prompted by wmr portal, windoze 1903. Doubt I will use them though.

 

Displays.

 

Sweet spot is quite large and I had no need to adjust IPD. It was clear from the get go. I could look out the corner of my eye quite naturally and the image remained clear to maybe 75% of the distance to the outer edge of the screen. Absolutely no complaints at all.

 

I saw no real difference in colour palette over the Rift. I run Gamma at 1.6 - 1.7 mostly as I always found Rift to look washed out at 2 and above. Colours fine, blacks seem fine. No complaints there.

Still really not got much clue about Steam VR settings, set the thingy slider to 188% as someone said. No MSAA. Remembered that Windows 1903 update caused problems with this slider (2nd update on previous post), so put DCS PD up to 1.7.

MSAA off and shimmers were still present.

 

Got no real stutters or poor performance at all, just missing ASW when turning the head, some very, very fine shimmering. Early days yet and I need to learn how to use and understand the software so I can optimise everything. As said, everything is completely new. No real complaints.

 

Image quality.

You can still see pixels if you look for them, much like you can on a 1080p monitor from a couple of feet away. However things are much clearer than the Rift. I have an idea that the Windows bug is preventing full native resolution, so when that is repaired, things can only get better.

 

Software and ease of use.

It is certainly not the Oculus user experience. Everything works, but it can't be said that it's seamless. Starting up the steam WMR software,starts up the WMR portal, then DCS starts, then Oculus starts. That's a lot of things running down on the taskbar.

 

Within DCS I found using the mouse to operate switches and rotate knobs was somehow a bit hit and miss. You can work them, but it sometimes takes a couple of tries. Probably some kind of latency between the different apps running in the background.

There is certainly a strong case for DCS running VR as a standalone with the headset switching on automatically as DCS is starting to load.

 

Something for the Huey Pilots.

 

The rotorheads most often get overlooked in reviews where people are describing cockpit image clarity, so I fired up the Huey specially for them and looked at everything that was unreadable or just barely readable if you knew what it was supposed to say while using the Rift. Something specific for you to try out with your present headset.

 

So top, bottom and front of the Huey cockpit.

 

Everything on the overhead panel is clearly legible including the labels on the rotary bus switches.

 

Everything on the centre console is clearly legible from normal seated position including the caution panel lights.

 

The outside air temp dial is clearly legible when seated normally.

 

Instrument panel. Most things clearly legible from normal seated position, including the LOAD placard within the secondary generator gauge. The smaller LOAD placard on the main generator gauge is clearly legible if one leans forward about 6 -8 inches. If you know what it says already you can read it seated normally.

Gas generator dial and percent numbers. Almost clearly legible from normal seated position. Definitely clear if leaning forward a couple of inches.

 

Small numbers in altimeter Kollsmann window. Almost clearly legible from normal seated position, definitely clear if leaning very slightly forward.

 

Conclusion. I have a lot of work to do. Things can only get better, Windows devs needs to find and fix the resolution issue, DCS needs that standalone VR mod badly and I need to find a way to improve the comfort of the headset. All works in progress.

 

Overall, knowing what I know now, I would still buy it.


Edited by Tinkickef

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What I did to remedy this on the odyssey is just put on the headset, wait for cliff house to come up. Hit the Windows key then go to the desktop app. Your desktop shows up. Double click dcs shortcut from there. After that no more messing with the mouse going off the screen or VR window area. It's how you are meant to use wmr. If you start wmr app in windows first then put on the headset, it will think you are still out the headset so the mouse looses focus. It used to drive me nuts but now every time I want to fly I just launch everything from inside the VR headset.

 

 

Top tip Sze. Thanks. :)

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-- snippage --

 

The Reverb needs pass through cameras enabled period.

It is very hard to peer down the nose gap due to the nose gasket and still be able to focus on the keyboard. The headset does swivel up out of the way on its hinges a little, but this absolutely kills immersion when instructing ground crew ect. One second you are in a cockpit, the next you are in a room..

 

 

Thank you. I'm a peeker. I don't mind it at all. So I'll definitely remove the gasket and put some electrical tape on the sharp edge. I was ready and willing to cut the gasket if needed. I like working with physical switches/buttons :D

 

And the Huey panel description really helped. I'm still hopeful that after the Hog gets the update, Huey will as well. When I get it, it does look - how can I say this - not as good as the Hornet.

 

And thanks for the report on cable. This was my ding for Vive when I got it. Compared to Rift, it was a pain in the ass.

hsb

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Great write up there Tinkickef, I agree with what you have written. In the Huey cockpit, you can now tell the difference between 3D modelled screw heads and 2D jpeg ones on the various instrument panels.

 

It's always tricky going to a whole new software ecosystem and I'm as lost as you are.

 

The nose gap is too well engineered and you can't peep out through it.

 

I'm also happy with it so far and I think it's worth the money, but I think we were lucky to have Luckey on our side for the CV1, that was a premium product.

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Thanks for another nice review!

 

Can you test with MSAA 2x? The reason I ask is to see if AA can get rid of the shimmers as that is what AA is for.

 

Also, 1.7 PD in DCS is 289% SS in SteamVR! But I doubt you are actually running at that res and most likely are locked to a much lower number because of the windows bug.

New VR Simpit: Intel 10700K, MSI Seahawk X 1080Ti (waiting for 3080Ti or 3090), 32 GB 3600MHz RAM, HP Reverb, TM Warthog

 

Old VR Simpit: Intel 4790K, Asus Matrix 780Ti, 16GB RAM, HTC Vive

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I can only say that after my experience of WMR over the last 2 or 3 days, it is horrible compared to using SteamVR on the VP or Oculus software on the Rift.

The whole interface with SteamVR is clunky. One example being that pushing in the thumbstick brings up SteamVR and makes it impossible to use in WMR Home to activate free movement. I lose the mouse cursor sometimes when I load up DCS. Then, I need to quit from WMR Home, DCS and SteamVR and try again.

I get occasional black screens in the headset, and horrible loading flashing images when DCS is loading.

The WMR options are very limited compared to SteamVR, etc. etc.

And, I'm not going to even mention the controllers!

 

Hi imacken!

 

Concerning the flashing to black - steam somehow switches back to the "grid" when the application shows no activity. Do you experienced this? It can be turned of in the Steam VR settings. Can you try those options, if it helps? I was just able to verify this with my Rift in IL-2 and it didn't show this flashing behavior anymore. Might be only available in the beta build of Steam VR, but I'm not sure with this.

 

Regards,

Huzzle

 

 

 

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Top tip Sze. Thanks. :)
This drove me bonkers for months until I figured it out. My mouse would lose itself randomly and I would not be able to get it back without a pc restart.

 

Nice write up for the review too! I don't have a 2080ti but I would hope to run similar settings to yours if I get one.

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....set the thingy slider to 188% as someone said. No MSAA. Remembered that Windows 1903 update caused problems with this slider (2nd update on previous post), so put DCS PD up to 1.7.

 

Setting the slider to 188% gives you best for Reverb resolution.. but then having DCS PD to 1.7 does not achieve much other than dropping your frame rates some...

 

Slider at 188% and PD at 1.0 works so well for me I can have virtually all settings at MAX and MSSA at 2 with the 2080ti and I fly mostly rotaries...

 

My DCS settings are here https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3940799&postcount=1298

 

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1. Leave visuals to auto. The second part let's you select the refresh rate of 60hz or 90hz. 90 is smoother but only if you can actually get 90fps in games you play. Keep it at 90hz for now and only drop it to 60hz if you are experiencing performance issues.

 

 

A few of the games give me less than 90 easily so will enable 60 - also wondering as mine defaults to "auto" if in these cases it would drop the game to 60 - interestingly a few games seems to be locked to 45fps which is almost like the old ASW was running? - I guess if you select 60hz the fps should drop to 60?

 

2. Steam automatically sets this resolution scale based on your gpu. But 1972x1928 isn't the native resolution of the reverb. Move it to 188% to get the 2160 resolution of your headset. You can either do this under the application tab, which only would do it for DCS if you select dcs under there or globally if you check the box under the video settings to apply it to everything.

 

 

Just wondering if this is some kind of bug (read about a version of win10 being broken?) have set the res to 188% in steam custom res

 

3. Motion reprojection is wmr version of asw. Keep it on if you want to sustain at least 45fps. I always kept motion smoothing off. This is under steam vr settings video tab I believe.

 

 

interestingly on the steamVR options area its showing as reprojection is on (have not touched any settings to enable but there is some kind of default.vrsettings file where it is referenced (to auto or on) - is this where its enabled? - for motion smoothing showing on my steam options as off but how/where can you switch on?

 

4. I usually preferred keeping default SS In steam and using the pixel density slider in DCS.

 

 

so 188% in the custom res? then you select the PD in DCS? (assume by boosting the application res in steam you are doing basically the same thing?

 

5. Never used that fpsVR app with my Samsung Odyssey but 150% isn't going to give you native res of the Reverb. You need to set it to 188% I think.

 

 

thanks for the reply! some comments/queries above....

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Setting the slider to 188% gives you best for Reverb resolution.. but then having DCS PD to 1.7 does not achieve much other than dropping your frame rates some...

 

Slider at 188% and PD at 1.0 works so well for me I can have virtually all settings at MAX and MSSA at 2 with the 2080ti and I fly mostly rotaries...

 

My DCS settings are here https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3940799&postcount=1298

Interesting, my settings are pretty much the same as yours, and the difference between PD of 1.0 and 1.6 is massive in terms of clarity and readability in cockpits!

Intel i7 12700K · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 4090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z690-A Wi-Fi · MSI 32" MPG321UR QD · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 11 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · Tobii Eye Tracker 5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil MongoosT-50CM3 Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM3 · Virpil Alpha Prime Grip · Virpil Control Panel 2 · Thrustmaster F-16 MFDs · HTC Vive Pro 2 · Total Controls Multifunction Button Box

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Secondly, if I am running fpsVR overlay in DCS using the Vive Pro, then the overlay looks perfect and sits well with DCS cockpits, etc. In the Reverb, this is not the case. Basically, the overlay looks like I'm looking at it cross-eyed, and I have to close one eye to see more clearly what it is telling me.

 

I should add that this only occurs in DCS with fpsVR. Looks absolutely fine in all other games.

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Interesting, my settings are pretty much the same as yours, and the difference between PD of 1.0 and 1.6 is massive in terms of clarity and readability in cockpits!

 

Strange one, I just did a test... with the Steam side set at 188% and PD at 1.0 I viewed the complete Huey cockpit.... then changed to 188% + PD of 1.6 and did the same. To me, there was no real discernible difference other than perhaps a hardening of some edges and a significant drop in frames... but hey computers are designed from the outset to confuse and screw with us.... it's the master plan to take over the world..

 

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Strange one, I just did a test... with the Steam side set at 188% and PD at 1.0 I viewed the complete Huey cockpit.... then changed to 188% + PD of 1.6 and did the same. To me, there was no real discernible difference other than perhaps a hardening of some edges and a significant drop in frames... but hey computers are designed from the outset to confuse and screw with us.... it's the master plan to take over the world..

 

Computers are designed to occasionally make me feel foolish :)

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I'm still confused about Imacken and his continued use of Win 10 (build 1903). We know there is a decidedly fuzzier image with that build and I don't think there is a hotfix available yet. I think those with build 1809 are getting a clearer image with Reverb. Yes?

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I'm 1803 version of Windows and quite happy with the clarity of the image.

 

For the first time in VR spotting an aircraft without relying on a labels patch is now actually possible. Makes A/A combat sooo much more enjoyable!


Edited by sohei

A small pie is soon eaten

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Strange one, I just did a test... with the Steam side set at 188% and PD at 1.0 I viewed the complete Huey cockpit.... then changed to 188% + PD of 1.6 and did the same. To me, there was no real discernible difference other than perhaps a hardening of some edges and a significant drop in frames... but hey computers are designed from the outset to confuse and screw with us.... it's the master plan to take over the world..

 

 

 

Sometimes when you adjust the graphics settings, the change doesn’t get applied fully until after quitting and restarting DCS (antialiasing is notorious for that). Some even say that we should delete the fxo and metashader2 folders for every graphic update as well.

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Sometimes when you adjust the graphics settings, the change doesn’t get applied fully until after quitting and restarting DCS (antialiasing is notorious for that). Some even say that we should delete the fxo and metashader2 folders for every graphic update as well.
Restart makes sense but deleting fxo and metashader folder should be done after each dcs update.

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I'm 1803 version of Windows and quite happy with the clarity of the image.

 

For the first time in VR spotting an aircraft without relying on a labels patch is now actually possible. Makes A/A combat sooo much more enjoyable!

 

Glad to see you're getting such good results with version 1803. Its the same version I have, and my Reverb will be here on Wednesday. Just tried DCS 2.5.5 on the Rift, and even though the VR performance update got broken and didn't make it into the latest patch, the performance in VR is still tremendously improved over 2.5.4 and 2.5.3. :D

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