Computer tgt (ccrp) on steerpoint/waypoint

[Watari]

Hi guys.

 

Im searching all resources for the possibility to slave the tgt cue to a wp or a coordinate like the hornet wp-bombing.

Like a preplanned strike on coordinates. Didnt find any instructions.

 

Does someone know how to do that in the tomcat?

[rikkles]

Your best option is to use CMPTR IP mode ("computer initial point").

In the mission editor, set a waypoint with name "IP". This will be the initial point for the strike. You can set bearing, altitude and range changes from the IP for the strike (see the docs) to basically say "the strike point is just off the IP point by this much" but it's not necessary.

Then while flying, set the plane to A/G mode (pilot master arm on, a/g mode on the right console), and the RIO activates the pylons etc...

At that moment the pilot should see ORD on his hud, with a bomb fall line and a diamond where the ground target is. Align the bomb fall line to the plane, and when you see the solution cue line (perpendicular to the bomb fall line) show up, press the ordnance release button and leave it pressed until the bombs are released.

[rikkles]

It does look buggy to me though: the IP waypoint isn't picked up in game when the RIO selects IP as the destination.

[viper2097]

Designate the diamond on a waypoint is not possible (also not realistic I think).

You ALWAYS have to designate a ground target through the HUD visually.

 

IP is used, to bomb something with a known distance and bearing from a known (visual identifyable) waypoint.

 

Simple example:

You want to bomb THAT house 2 miles south of the Eiffel tower.

Then you are useing IP mode:

 

RIO selects IP mode and puts in 180 bearing and 2 range in the CAP.

Then you fly over the Eiffel tower and put the diamond with the target designator on the eiffel tower.

The diamond jumps now to the house you wanna bomb 2 miles south.

 

It is used to designate targets that you can't identify visualy, but you know the bearing and distance from something other that is possible to visual identify.

Edited March 22, 2019 by viper2097

[TheSauvaaage]

Your best option is to use CMPTR IP mode ("computer initial point").

In the mission editor ...

 

I think this is a big problem in general. We should not have to fiddle in the Mission Editor, as someone who has created a mission already had things in mind. You should find an easy solution with what you have, not edit the mission to your likings.

 

For example, I check the Editor for a strike mission, noted down the coordinates of the target and during flight, I let Jester set a manual surface target point with these coordinates because during the mission F10 doesn't show enemy units.

 

In that case, that worked nicely. AS LONG as you know HOW TO work around the initial issues... and THIS can sometimes be a bit frustrating in the 14 due to her primitive technology.

In real life, from the briefing room to actually TALKING to your RIO and tell him precisely what you want, I expect this to be a much easier task simply because of real communication :) What is given by Heatblur is sometimes not enough for DCS.

 

Or, another problem, visual identification is much easier IRL (as if I would know lol) than in VR, due to technical limitations of the headset. Finding a Manpad for example is almost impossible...

Edited March 22, 2019 by TheSauvaaage

[viper2097]

Sorry, I don't get it? Whats your issue? There is actually none...

 

Mission Editor works fine, waypoints work fine, Jester and waypoints work fine. I don't get it why you "need to fidle around with the ME"?

You simply just can't slave the designator to a waypoint. Thats it. Also IRL.

Edited March 22, 2019 by viper2097

[TheSauvaaage]

Sorry, I don't get it? Whats your issue? There is actually none...

You simply just can't slave the designator to a waypoint. Thats it. Also IRL.

 

Okay, I give you an example... but feel free to tell me how you did the mission. I am still befriending the 14 and I love to take it out, no question about it! 18 is collecting dust atm ;)

 

The first Single Mission (forgot the name... Iran something... where you carry out a strike mission after a pretty long flight) has 3 WPs and the briefing tells you that the Nuclear facility is the Surface Target. Initia Point is also mentioned, but neither ST nor IP can be selected as a steering point (or at least I don't get any info on the HSD in regards of bearing)

 

So, by default you would have to find your target roughly on your own. You could use the ruler to find bearing and range, but this would be determined as unrealistic during flight, right? ;) That also means you can't precisely set a marker on top of the target as a ST which would make it easier to slave onto it in the HUD.

 

But because enemy units are not displayed in F10 (which is also realistic, I know) I had to note the coordinates in the briefing map and during mission let Jester enter the coords as a ST, because the mission doesn't give you one as per briefing. On top of that, the coordinates can't be entered as precisely due to the Cat's tech (1 digit less).

 

Nevertheless, if you handled the mission well, let me know how you accomplished it. How did you find your target, how did you destroy it? (CCIP I guess)

 

Due to my real life experience as a fighter pilot (which means non at all) I would iamgine that strike missions on immobile targets would have been based on precise coordinates, even back in the 14's days and in general on whatever aircraft. And these coordinates would be the precise dropping point/surface target you could slave your marker to... No? (maybe I will make that a separate thread :) )

Edited March 22, 2019 by TheSauvaaage

[QuiGon]

In the mission editor, set a waypoint with name "IP". This will be the initial point for the strike. You can set bearing, altitude and range changes from the IP for the strike (see the docs) to basically say "the strike point is just off the IP point by this much" but it's not necessary.

Do I have to enter the offset range in nm or in ft? The manual doesn't answer that :(

 

The first Single Mission (forgot the name... Iran something... where you carry out a strike mission after a pretty long flight) has 3 WPs and the briefing tells you that the Nuclear facility is the Surface Target. Initia Point is also mentioned, but neither ST nor IP can be selected as a steering point (or at least I don't get any info on the HSD in regards of bearing)

Both, IP as well as ST, can be selected as a steering point by the RIO. I've never flown with Jester, so I don't know how you need to tell him to do that, but technically it's perfectly possible to use the ST and IP as a waypoint and get steering indications on the respective displays (HUD, VDI, ...) accordingly.

[TheSauvaaage]

but technically it's perfectly possible to use the ST and IP as a waypoint and get steering indications on the respective displays (HUD, VDI, ...) accordingly.

 

Yes, but at least not in this mission. If you set IP or ST as steering by Jester you don't get anything. It seems like the Mission creator forgot to assign points/coords to the ST/IP. It is probably "blank" or not in use.

[viper2097]

The nuclear facility mission is bugged, the wp should be prepared.

[TheSauvaaage]

The nuclear facility mission is bugged, the wp should be prepared.

 

That explains a lot lol

 

And I tried so hard to make my issues clear.... On the other hand, that Nuke facility has been bombed to pieces, so Mission Accomplished ;)

[viper2097]

xD

Also there is no possibility to slave the target designator to a steerpoint. Puss in boots just can't do that. You always have to designate your targets visually (except with lantern, lantern can be slave to it).

[rikkles]

What I was saying in the first response is that in theory you should be able to set in the Mission Editor a waypoint by name “IP (or “ST”) and select it during flight. Unfortunately it does not work right now. You can select waypoints 1 to 3 correctly, but not the named waypoints. And that is a bug, since the docs state that you can do it.

 

And for people saying the Mission Editor ahould not be used, that’s just a replacement to the ground entry of waypoints.

[viper2097]

As far as I know, everythibg works as it should.

You can designate WP 1-3 trough the normal waypoint management in the ME.

The Homebase can either be set as landing waypoint or as HB from the special waypoints. IP, St etc. Have to be set as special waypoints.

 

Jester is entering the waspoints on startup for you, if you are rio, you have to enter them manualy.

 

As far as I know, in that strike mission, the IP and ST waspoints are missing completely in the ME. That is a bug in that particular mission.

[QuiGon]

What I was saying in the first response is that in theory you should be able to set in the Mission Editor a waypoint by name “IP (or “ST”) and select it during flight. Unfortunately it does not work right now. You can select waypoints 1 to 3 correctly, but not the named waypoints. And that is a bug, since the docs state that you can do it.

 

And for people saying the Mission Editor ahould not be used, that’s just a replacement to the ground entry of waypoints.

As viper has already pointed out, all the waypoints (including the special waypoints) do work just fine. You can enter coordinates for them and select them as destination for steering.

[Jabbers_]

HB removed the ability to setup a surface target as a coordinate strike. Because of the inaccuracy of the INS (resolution is like 185 meters) this wasnt a real thing IRL. So you have to designate everything by slewing the target designation on the target.

 

I have a video on how to do bombing both PLT and TGT (IP I'm making a seperate video for)

 

 

For IP its always an offset from a target designation, scenario would you have a spotter in a tower, he says there is a tank coming in 237 2nm from his position, RIO would input the offset, you would target designate the tower and the diamond would move to the offset, which you could then CPTR TGT (CCIP) drop bombs on. Think of it as A2G with BULLZ calls like A2A combat.

 

To that effect, for all TGT bombing (including IP), you have to target designate with the HUD first. You simply cannot bomb specific coordinates input by the RIO.

 

Surface Target just shows the WP differently on the TID, only purpose. You can see here how it appears as a target point

 

Hope this helps.

[rikkles]

CCIP is easy. You slew the caret and freeze it over the target. The problem is CCRP. It's supposed to work in a way where you pre-enter the target info. One of the ways is to put in the IP or ST, as named waypoints in the mission editor. Those are supposed to automatically be input by jester as you enter the aircraft, just like waypoints 1-3. But for some reason I can only see waypoints 1-3, the others don't show up in navigation.

What am I missing?

[TheSauvaaage]

What about the following:

 

- Check the target's coordinates in the briefing

- give Jester the coordinates to put in as Surface Target, which creates the required steering point

- set the steering cmd on the Display Control Panel to AWL/PCD

 

because:

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

 

Shouldn't that place a diamond on the coordinates (on ground level)?

Edited March 22, 2019 by TheSauvaaage

[Jabbers_]

CCIP is easy. You slew the caret and freeze it over the target.

 

No CCIP (known as Computer Pilot Mode) only shows an impact point in form of a cross hair on your hud when you dive, it does not allow you to slew a caret.

 

The problem is CCRP. It's supposed to work in a way where you pre-enter the target info. One of the ways is to put in the IP or ST, as named waypoints in the mission editor. Those are supposed to automatically be input by jester as you enter the aircraft, just like waypoints 1-3. But for some reason I can only see waypoints 1-3, the others don't show up in navigation.

What am I missing?

 

Surface target as I stated above is literally just a different symbol on the TID, and only for that purpose. You cannot do CCRP style bombing over a waypoint, it doesnt work that way on purpose, it wasnt a thing per the SMEs HB has and was taken out just before release.

 

What about the following:

 

- Check the target's coordinates in the briefing

- give Jester the coordinates to put in as Surface Target, which creates the required steering point

- set the steering cmd on the Display Control Panel to AWL/PCD

 

because:

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

 

Shouldn't that place a diamond on the coordinates (on ground level)?

 

Not sure someone would have to try, but there is no way to setup a WP and fly over it and bomb it unless you use IP mode, but IP mode sets an offset from a landmark all explained in the scenario above in my previous post.

[rikkles]

What about the following:

 

- Check the target's coordinates in the briefing

- give Jester the coordinates to put in as Surface Target, which creates the required steering point

- set the steering cmd on the Display Control Panel to AWL/PCD

 

because:

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

 

Shouldn't that place a diamond on the coordinates (on ground level)?

 

I'll try that right away. But the docs say:

 

As the F-14’s navigational system only has three numbered waypoints, most other waypoints are set using Navigation Target Points. Waypoint 1 through 3 are set from their respective waypoints in the mission editor.

Home Base is set to the landing waypoint. The rest are set by creating and naming Navigation Target Points as per below list.

 

Waypoints 1 to 3 work as expected. The others don't. I'll revert with checking using jester.

[AvroLanc]

What about the following:

 

- Check the target's coordinates in the briefing

- give Jester the coordinates to put in as Surface Target, which creates the required steering point

- set the steering cmd on the Display Control Panel to AWL/PCD

 

because:

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

 

Shouldn't that place a diamond on the coordinates (on ground level)?

 

No. AWL/PCD is a landing mode. Completely unrelated.

 

The F-14 simply isn’t designed as a sophisticated air to ground platform. The ability to drop dumb bombs visually was built in from the start, but it obviously needed LANTIRN to be an effective bomber.

 

Best bet is to use IP mode. It works well, you need distance in NM and true bearing, also altitude difference, from mission editor/planner. Only drawback is that once designated, the target can’t be adjusted easily, when the inevitable position error is noted during bomb run.

Edited March 22, 2019 by AvroLanc

[QuiGon]

No. AWL/PCD is a landing mode. Completely unrelated.

From the manual:

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

http://www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#displays-control-panel

[TheSauvaaage]

No. AWL/PCD is a landing mode. Completely unrelated.

 

So what does PCD stand for? The manual says:

 

AWL/PCD - All-weather landing/precision course direction, selects glideslope guidance (ILS/ACLS) for landing or PCD for air-to-ground engagement directions as steering command source.

 

Edit: one German was quicker than the other ;)

[rikkles]

Well in any case entering an IP named waypoint in the mission editor doesn't translate into the IP waypoint when you fly. You have to manually tell jester the coordinates. This is in contradiction with the documentation.

 

EDIT: Ok, my bad. One needs to enter NAVIGATION TARGET POINTS, not waypoints. Those are different things in the mission editor. Also the name "IP" is to be entered in the comments section of the navigation target point. Then one can use the IP as a destination in game. You don't need to tell Jester to enter it during the flight.

Edited March 22, 2019 by rikkles

[TheSauvaaage]

Well in any case entering an IP named waypoint in the mission editor doesn't translate into the IP waypoint when you fly. You have to manually tell jester the coordinates. This is in contradiction with the documentation.

 

IIRC you add "markers" with the correct abbreviation (IP, FP, ST, HB) and then let Jester select "steerpoint from map" which also shows the elapsed time you created the marker (e.g. 10 minutes (ago))

 

Is that what you did?