How not to snap wings?

[ebabil]

I snapped wings many times. It happened after bombing run, dog fighting etc.

How can avoid it? How do i see the signals of it is going to happen?

So far i don't need an enemy to kill my plane

[limbotimbo]

Easy! Don’t pull as many g’s. There is no fly by wire system to stop the pilot from doing stupid stuff.

 

 

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[ebabil]

I only stop pulling g when my pilot starts to black out, The plane in front of me is doing much more stupid manuevers than me and he gets away with it

[VC]

If it's purely G based then it's really inconsistent. Why sometimes can I black out but the wings stay on, while other times wings snap long before blackout? There has to be more to it than that because right now I have no confidence regarding how hard I can pull the stick.

 

Also I feel wings snap much more when swept, which feels backwards, surely that's when the moment arm to snap them is smallest!

[Larkis]

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Edited March 28, 2019 by Larkis

[schurem]

Lol ok theres instantaneous G and sustained G. Instant is when you snap the plane into a manoeuvre by a big hamfisted jank on the stick. The blood in the pilots head is not given time to deain, so the 12Gs will destroy the plane before blacking out the pilot. Sustained is where you are long enough at 8,5 G for the blood to drain from the head and he starts to black out. The plane can take it, even if the maintenance people will be quite cross with you.

 

As for the wingsweep; with the wings back you are usually going pretty darn fast. With the wings forward you are usually more at A-10 like speeds. G is a function of speed and turn rate. So at slow speed you can yank on it untill it stalls, spins and kills you because it qill reach the AoA limits way before the G limit. At high speed far less AoA is needed to put on a ton of G.

 

@larkis, omg that is so hilariously wrong i cant even begin. Go read wikis on basic aerodynamics.

Edited March 28, 2019 by schurem

[Larkis]

@larkis, omg that is so hilariously wrong i cant even begin. Go read wikis on basic aerodynamics.

 

 

Yes mr. perfrect, sorry mr. perfect that i wrote my experience. Sorry that im not such an all-knowing genius like you, sorry that i make something wrong. I removed it. Sorry for that mr. perfect. Thanks for your kind charming words. You help me understanding my fault mr. perfect, thanks for teaching me.

[Mr_sukebe]

Yes mr. perfrect, sorry mr. perfect that i wrote my experience. Sorry that im not such an all-knowing genius like you, sorry that i make something wrong. I removed it. Sorry for that mr. perfect. Thanks for your kind charming words. You help me understanding my fault mr. perfect, thanks for teaching me.

 

If you’re wrong on a subject, it’s really not cool to be quite so patronising.

[Chaogen]

Are y'all disengaging Pitch SAS before entering ACM? I used to over-g my aircraft all the time till I started using the emergency autopilot disconnect paddle before maneuvering, which also disables Pitch and Roll SAS. I know from a mechanical standpoint you wouldn't do that in real life, but I suspect it changes the effectiveness of the stabilizers over the stick input curve, since most of us do not have force feedback. Or maybe its a placebo effect?!

[fl0w]

Base your turns off of the AoA indicator on the left side of HUD. As long as you don't pass 15 units, you'll be fine. The shaking sounds are a big indicating warning that you're encountering the "rip wing" zone. Also, it is dependent on your speed. Anything 430+ knots I have found is a good definite rip if you pull too much alpha.

[Larkis]

If you’re wrong on a subject, it’s really not cool to be quite so patronising.

 

 

I dont have a problem with beeing called wrong, if the person who make the call explained why. Im here to learn like anyone else and im here to try help like anyone else.

 

 

 

But if a person need to push its ego with a "haha, i know more then you and you are a fool, to foolish to just explain the error"-attitude i just give him what he want. Hope he feels now bether :smilewink:

[StandingCow]

I am not the best pilot.. but I haven't managed to break my wings in about 60 hours or so of flight (bombing, A/A, and missile dodging). If you are breaking your wings you are doing something wrong.. either pulling sudden G's by jerking the joystick (pilot won't have time to black out as others have said) or pulling too hard.

 

Remember the F14 doesn't have any systems in place to limit you like the F18 has.

[mortalkombat]

I guess not snapping wings in the sim is way harder than it would be for a real life pilot. Natops states that the real stick is dampened to prevent the pilot from pulling too much Gs.

[StandingCow]

I guess not snapping wings in the sim is way harder than it would be for a real life pilot. Natops states that the real stick is dampened to prevent the pilot from pulling too much Gs.

 

Yea, that would be a good question for Victory, if that dampening prevented quick pulls. Okie said somewhere in his interview that when they changed the dampening on his stick without telling him he pulled... 10 or 11 Gs by mistake since he was used to having to pull harder. That would make me think you are correct about quick pulls.

[schurem]

Im sorry for coming off wrong larkis. Please accept my apology for the offense given by the tone of my post. It was not intended that way.

 

Actually your way of turning with the rudder as well as the stick is a very good one, its whats called a coordinated turn and is the proper way to do it in normal, regular from A to B flight. But not for riding-the-edge wingripping high G combat.

 

Please undelete your opening post. Id rather leave in my offensive one so as to give this apology meaning. Cheers.

[Robert31178]

If you’re wrong on a subject, it’s really not cool to be quite so patronising.

 

How can you flame this guy for being snarky when the post right after his was someone making fun of his lack of knowledge? And patronizing is spelled with a "Z", while we're throwing daggers around.......

 

~Rob

[ebabil]

I am not the best pilot.. but I haven't managed to break my wings in about 60 hours or so of flight (bombing, A/A, and missile dodging). If you are breaking your wings you are doing something wrong.. either pulling sudden G's by jerking the joystick (pilot won't have time to black out as others have said) or pulling too hard.

 

Remember the F14 doesn't have any systems in place to limit you like the F18 has.

 

That's what i am triying to understand :D

 

Once, i dived with non after burner rpm to make a ccip bomb run, after i released the bomb, i pulled the stick (looks like too hard) then i realized that my plane was more on fire than the target i just bombed.

[StandingCow]

That's what i am triying to understand :D

 

Once, i dived with non after burner rpm to make a ccip bomb run, after i released the bomb, i pulled the stick (looks like too hard) then i realized that my plane was more on fire than the target i just bombed.

 

 

How close to the ground did you get? I think either you ran into your own bomb (pulling neg Gs when dropping) or your bomb fragmentation hit you.

[Mr_sukebe]

How can you flame this guy for being snarky when the post right after his was someone making fun of his lack of knowledge? And patronizing is spelled with a "Z", while we're throwing daggers around.......

 

~Rob

 

Rob>

I’m English, and in English, it’s spelt with a S, but let’s not digress.

My point was that whilst it wasn’t cool for the first post to be so offhand, it’s only makes things worse by responding to it, and doing so in an even more noisy way.

We are after adults, and I’d hope that no one would make these comments to each other face to face.

[ebabil]

How close to the ground did you get? I think either you ran into your own bomb (pulling neg Gs when dropping) or your bomb fragmentation hit you.

 

Sir i don't think that i got too close to get caught by my own bomb.

[StandingCow]

Sir i don't think that i got too close to get caught by my own bomb.

 

 

Were you pulling neg G's during the drop like still stick forward? I have done that before.

[ebabil]

I dived nose down all the way then pulled the stick to recover.

I will try to re-produce it (piece of cake for me) and share a track

[Larkis]

Im sorry for coming off wrong larkis. Please accept my apology for the offense given by the tone of my post. It was not intended that way.

 

Actually your way of turning with the rudder as well as the stick is a very good one, its whats called a coordinated turn and is the proper way to do it in normal, regular from A to B flight. But not for riding-the-edge wingripping high G combat.

 

Please undelete your opening post. Id rather leave in my offensive one so as to give this apology meaning. Cheers.

 

 

Hi. Thanks for that kind answer. Sorry that i was so pissed. Sadly i cant restore the post, but i dont think its a big loss. :music_whistling::thumbup:

 

 

But the explain, i thought that using rudder hove the back of the plane and reduce the stress of the fuseölage. Personal Experiance seems to support that, but i seem that ifly different without noticing it. Or im just got more used to it so i know the limits of the plane.

 

 

 

 

But what i can (hopefully correct :smilewink:) tell is that you could hear the limit. The wings start to shake or rattle (i dont know if thats the correct word) when you reach the g-limit. If you hear that and remove g you will be fine.

[Deano87]

I dived nose down all the way then pulled the stick to recover.

I will try to re-produce it (piece of cake for me) and share a track

 

Ebabil, what stick do you have, and how much curve do you use in the axis tuning? You need to pay attention to the G-meter which is the small gauge in the top right corner of the instrument panel. Do not pull to beyond 8-9G and try and be smooth with your inputs. Practice pulling at various different speeds/angles to understand how much stick movement you need. Unlike the F-18 where you can pull the stick all the way back and let the FCS limit your G you have to fly the F-14 carefully. Just glance at the G-meter occasionally to see where you're at.

[WindyTX]

I think this problem is 90% down to the lack of g feel available in the sim. I have broken the wings twice since release once trying to avoid the water, in both cases I snapped the stick back which is a bad habit gained from the F18 flying and relying on it's FCS.

 

In the old days we used to pull to 5 squeeze to 7 (when 7 was available ). In a real aircraft it's pretty easy to pull to 5 as it's when the g suit is fully inflated (as long as you didn't snap 5 ).

 

In the DCS F14 I now allow more altitude in my SAM defense manouvers and try to always squeeze the stick to the desired turn rate and try to be as smooth as possible. While in a fighter you don't have to worry about the g&t's in the back it's generally good practice to fly smooth and your RIO will probably appreciate it, they certainly do in real life.

 

The g meter in the F14 is in a ridiculous location and this is way more of an issue when you can't feel how much g you are pulling because you are in a Sim not a real plane.

 

 

 

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