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Is it me or is the F14 getting owned in multiply Player?


budguy68

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I keep getting beaten by F18s and F15s left and right. (play mostly on modern DDCS server) And when I look at the score board all the F15s and F18s have the most kills while the F14 players barely have any.

 

I thought it could be that the plane is new for some people but we are already getting past that stage.

 

The only time I am ever decent in multiple player is when i am on the F15.

 

What do you guys think? How does the F14 stand up to other fighters..?

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The 15 and the 18 have better missiles and more modern systems that were built for fighter to fighter engagements (as well as the 15's arcady radar) The F-14s AIM-54's are great but can easily be avoided due to their size and turn radius (they were built to intercept a long range non maneuvering target). so picture the F-14 as an F-15 only loaded with sparrows.

The f-14 is not one of those aircraft that you can just hop in, spam 10 amramms and fly back without a care in the world. think about your engagements find the aircraft's strengths and weaknesses and use that to your advantage.

Link to my Imgur screenshots and motto

 

http://imgur.com/a/Gt7dF

One day in DCS... Vipers will fly along side Tomcats... Bugs with Superbugs, Tiffy's with Tornado's, Fulcrums with Flankers and Mirage with Rafales...

:)The Future of DCS is a bright one:)

 

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I purchased my F-14 to experience a 70’s aircraft, not to Air Quake with it, so I really dont care if more modern fighters have a higher success ratio :)

 

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I purchased my F-14 to experience a 70’s aircraft, not to Air Quake with it, so I really dont care if more modern fighters have a higher success ratio :)

 

exactly

 

DCS doesn't care about balancing. So realistically if a bunch of tomcats went up against a bunch of hornets, the tomcats would get their butts handed to them, simply due to the fact that the 18 is a better plane (hence why it replaced the tomcat)


Edited by SilentGun

Link to my Imgur screenshots and motto

 

http://imgur.com/a/Gt7dF

One day in DCS... Vipers will fly along side Tomcats... Bugs with Superbugs, Tiffy's with Tornado's, Fulcrums with Flankers and Mirage with Rafales...

:)The Future of DCS is a bright one:)

 

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I still didn't try any mp server with the F-14.

 

 

What was the Altitude?, range?, location? aspect of the engagement?

 

 

If they look for the mountains the engagement range will be real close and it will be difficult for the F-14.

 

Try to pick your fights and try to lure them to play your game instead.

 

Im no expert on the F-14 but I played with the M2K a lot against F-18 and I tried to never play their game (I was most of the time outnumbered) and when I did I knew I was going to lose. So I always tried to separete them and go for close range since the 530 has less range than the aim-120.

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I think it is a couple of things (mostly related to how new the 'cat is)....

 

The Eagles and Hornets moved down into the weeds avoiding the Phoenix and working the notch while the F-14 pilots (myself included) are making the mistake of staying high and trying to rain long range death down. If we keep the radar off, keep low, and leverage Datalink to stalk targets like a Su27/33, I think we will see the Tomcat getting more effective.

 

Jester is gimped at the moment, and can't hold a lock. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't when you launch with a friendly in front (odds better for getting a team kill than splashing a bandit). Smart Tomcats drivers are fighting with 1-hand tied behind their backs, and not launching, giving the advantage to blue.

 

Human RIOs are still learning the AWG-9 so things are getting better, but it is a work in progress.

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exactly

 

DCS doesn't care about balancing. So realistically if a bunch of tomcats went up against a bunch of hornets, the tomcats would get their butts handed to them, simply due to the fact that the 18 is a better plane (hence why it replaced the tomcat)

I apologize ahead of time, but this is such an absurd statement I can not stop myself. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because one item replaces another that it is in anyway better. The Hornet is better, but primarily on the accounting sheet, not in any combat scenario. Since I assume that the multi-player arenas are like any other online games, the equipment is only loosely being used in any way similar to their intended use. Again, I apologize for this post.

 

Salute,

Punk

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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exactly

 

DCS doesn't care about balancing. So realistically if a bunch of tomcats went up against a bunch of hornets, the tomcats would get their butts handed to them, simply due to the fact that the 18 is a better plane (hence why it replaced the tomcat)

 

Nope, the Tomcat is the more capable airplane, it's just a lot more pricey, which is a big reason behind why it eventually went out of service. Quite simply too few were procured/bought when needed, and a certain Dick Cheney without a clue in the world shut down the cats carrier early right at the time where the perfect chance to restart production had presented itself. AMRAAM capability was tested and ready to go, as were a bunch of electronic improvements, and the Navy was begging for the cat to stay. Dicky put a big ol' branch in that wheel though.

 

In short the only thing saving the F/A-18's butt online in DCS atm is the AMRAAM. Limit the F/A-18 to Sparrows & AIM-9's and it will be like someone sprayed the air full of hornet pesticide.

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I apologize ahead of time, but this is such an absurd statement I can not stop myself. It is a logical fallacy to assume that because one item replaces another that it is in anyway better. The Hornet is better, but primarily on the accounting sheet, not in any combat scenario. Since I assume that the multi-player arenas are like any other online games, the equipment is only loosely being used in any way similar to their intended use. Again, I apologize for this post.

 

Salute,

 

let me rephrase my original post

The F-14B going up against an F-18C, realistically the tomcat wouldn't do so well as it doesn't have the same capabilities in terms of weapons and flight characteristics.

So yea if an F-14D went up against an F-18C it would be a different story

Link to my Imgur screenshots and motto

 

http://imgur.com/a/Gt7dF

One day in DCS... Vipers will fly along side Tomcats... Bugs with Superbugs, Tiffy's with Tornado's, Fulcrums with Flankers and Mirage with Rafales...

:)The Future of DCS is a bright one:)

 

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let me rephrase my original post

The F-14B going up against an F-18C, realistically the tomcat wouldn't do so well as it doesn't have the same capabilities in terms of weapons and flight characteristics.

So yea if an F-14D went up against an F-18C it would be a different story

 

I’s say that in a guns only fight, the 18-C and the 14-B are nearly even, with a slight advantage to the hornet because its easier to fly. I would run like hell if i have any reason to suspect the hornet has sidewinders. Dealing with the AIM-9X is deeply a unpleasant experience.

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let me rephrase my original post

The F-14B going up against an F-18C, realistically the tomcat wouldn't do so well as it doesn't have the same capabilities in terms of weapons and flight characteristics.

So yea if an F-14D went up against an F-18C it would be a different story

 

I have zero issues blowing the Hornet out the sky in a guns only dogfight.

 

Again, without the Aim-9X and AMRAAMs the Hornet is inferior to the F-14, but it's also a lot cheaper.

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I’s say that in a guns only fight, the 18-C and the 14-B are nearly even, with a slight advantage to the hornet because its easier to fly.

 

What do you say to a friendly guns only dogfight, you the in F/A-18C and me in the F-14B? I'd like to show you something :D

 

I would run like hell if i have any reason to suspect the hornet has sidewinders. Dealing with the AIM-9X is deeply a unpleasant experience.

 

Well obviously, but try leveling the playing fields and only allow the Hornet access to AIM-9M or L's and AIM-7 Sparrows, and then see what happens ;)

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let me rephrase my original post

The F-14B going up against an F-18C, realistically the tomcat wouldn't do so well as it doesn't have the same capabilities in terms of weapons and flight characteristics.

So yea if an F-14D went up against an F-18C it would be a different story

 

Agreed . . . . we are comparing - er, really contrasting two different generation jets with different avionics. But I think it depends on the circumstances of the fight that should be extrapolated in detail because, one jet will not always beat the other. :)

 

The term "better" IMHO, can be a charged and subjective word that if expressed without qualifications, gets some folks hyped up because they assume their favourite jet is being dissed. I took the term "better" for what I think you meant. (The art of reading comprehension.) No issue for me.

 

So guys, let's not let this thread get off the rails!

 

The original poster has a good question and outside of more flying time on each module, there are many other possiblilities.

 

Looking forward to some factual technical input on tactics and capabilities and numbers in the air, experience and conditions of the missions. In response to the OP please!

 

 

Cheers guys!


Edited by Catseye
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We tested the F 14 against the F 5, F 18 and the F 15. F 14 was flown by two of the most talented virtual pilots I came across. The F 15 beats the Tomcat in almost every aspect, better climb, better acceleration, even turns better. Visibility in cockpit is better too. No full fidelity module so take that with a grain of salt.

 

The F 5 is a joke, no match for the Tomcat. Looses energy way to quick. It can't really turn tighter, the better roll rate doesn't help much eather. Sadly no competition for the F 14. Think in real life it is a better adversary to the Tomcat. It should give the modern jets a good run for their money.

 

Tomcat vs F 18 is a good one ! Cat has better thrust, Hornet is easier to fly (by wire). If the F 14 sticks to the vertical game it is hard to beat. Slow turn handling and low energy states is where the Hornet shines. Fly by wire has pros and cons. The F 18 just isn't going to do crazy things on you but you can't ask for more in some situations eather.

 

All in all, F 14 vs F 18 perfect doghfight match. Lots of fun !

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I've played more today.

 

The one thing I notice is that almost all the readings in my radar come out as unknow. When I locked someone up it was friendly 80% of the time. Can I can't really control who I luck up.

 

I also have no map so I gotta figure out where I gotta fly too if I need to fly back to friendly sam cover by using mostly compase/radio tower.

 

Jester is limited. Maybe a human rio can TIFF better by using the DDD.

 

Phoenixes can easily be defeated most of the time.

 

When I jump in a F15 and SU27 things become 3 times easier, More arcady.

 

I still love the plane and happy I got it.

 

 

 

I also have little control over the radar settings. DDCS server doesnt let you jump on rio.

 

 

Below i a screen shot of whatI mean its a small sample but notie how top killers are F15s and F18s

Capture.thumb.JPG.4e11285ed764034d68841ec9ff55d275.JPG


Edited by budguy68
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We tested the F 14 against the F 5, F 18 and the F 15...

Well said. :)

 

The one thing I disagree with though is comparing the 14 to the 15 in the first place. The DCS F-15 is a sim/arcade hybrid with a good flight model, there's really no basis for comparison between operating an ultra-simplified F-15 and the most complex aircraft simulation in DCS World. Fly what you enjoy of course, and the engagements and results are fun to watch, but I consider the comparison mostly meaningless.

 

I love the F-5, one of my favorite planes ever, real world and DCS. I know there are some blustery people claiming they can kill everything all day long with the F-5, but I honestly just don't believe them. The Tiger can certainly get kills when it's being sneaky (some of the most satisfying kills in DCS) and can mostly hold its own against same-era adversaries, but the lack of weapons reach, marginal energy reserves and poor low speed maneuvering are very real handicaps. These are also reasons I believe everyone should spend some occasional time knife fighting in the Tiger. It teaches you good energy management and forces creative tactical thinking, even if you still lose in the end. :)

 

I absolutely expected the Tomcat's early low win rate against the F-18, and subsequent threads like this, long before its release. There is a TON of emotional investment in the F-14, and sure, a lot of it is justified. But in the comparisons we'll most frequently see (1v1) I think the Hornet is likely to keep the edge. To be truly effective the F-14 requires an intimate knowledge of a complicated radar, much more skilled airmanship, and efficient crew coordination. With the Tomcat's complexity people haven't even begun to really become proficient. It's still far too early to even be making these comparisons. I think the Cat will gain some parity against the Bug as time goes on, but it'll be six months to a year before I really start paying attention to these results. Don't forget, Hornet driver's were complaining about their lack of success against MiG's for the first few months after its release too.

 

(Mark my words, the real forum flame wars will come when people start flying 16 v. 18.)

 

 

Fun times, everyone!


Edited by SonofEil

i7 7700K @5.0, 1080Ti, 32GB DDR4, HMD Odyssey, TM WH, Crosswind Rudder...

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Regarding the OP: no it's not getting owned at all. So far i'm 9-2 against Hornets and F-15s in public servers. And there are better pilots than me, the F-14 is doing fine...but it's way more demanding than the other.

 

F-14D? If we had that, you'd see 50-0 streaks or more with it...that thing it's a real monster.

666GIAP_Chimanov - My Tomcat tribute video, type on youtube browser=> "DCS F-14 Tomcat Symphony"

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I absolutely expected the Tomcat's early low win rate against the F-18, and subsequent threads like this, long before its release. There is a TON of emotional investment in the F-14, and sure, a lot of it is justified. But in the comparisons we'll most frequently see (1v1) I think the Hornet is likely to keep the edge. To be truly effective the F-14 requires an intimate knowledge of a complicated radar, much more skilled airmanship, and efficient crew coordination. With the Tomcat's complexity people haven't even begun to really become proficient. It's still far too early to even be making these comparisons. I think the Cat will gain some parity against the Bug as time goes on, but it'll be six months to a year before I really start paying attention to these results. Don't forget, Hornet driver's were complaining about their lack of success against MiG's for the first few months after its release too.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking ! Most people are still learning the Tomcat, especially RIOs that have to deal with the complex AWG-9...

I tend to think that it's more about pilots/RIOs skills and tactics rather than which airplane is best.

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We tested the F 14 against the F 5, F 18 and the F 15. F 14 was flown by two of the most talented virtual pilots I came across. The F 15 beats the Tomcat in almost every aspect, better climb, better acceleration, even turns better. Visibility in cockpit is better too. No full fidelity module so take that with a grain of salt.

 

Sorry but said pilots didnt know how to fly the Tomcat very well then.

 

While I will agree that the two are close the F-14 definitely wins the turning game, and F-15 HAS to go vertical to survive.

 

My offer for a 1v1 guns only dogfight extends to you and your friends as well :) I bet you I can get the better off the F-15 in the cat most of the time.


Edited by Hummingbird
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Sorry but said pilots didnt know how to fly the Tomcat very well then.

 

While I will agree that the two are close the F-14 definitely wins the turning game, and F-15 HAS to go vertical to survive.

 

My offer for a 1v1 guns only dogfight extends to you and your friends as well :) I bet you I can get the better off the F-15 in the cat most of the time.

If this happens... I would like to see a video of it please. Thank you in advance

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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If this happens... I would like to see a video of it please. Thank you in advance

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

Don't worry I will be sure to record it.

 

Already have four tacview replays vs a very good F-15 pilot.

 

PS: You're also welcome to give it a try, and I want to make clear that I presented this challenge purely in good spirit, and that it is not an attempt at boasting. I just want to show how an atleast somewhat properly flown Tomcat fares against the opposition in BFM. So anyone up for some friendly DACT is welcome to answer the call :)

 

I've set up a 1v1 scenario with multiple choice aircraft in a dried out riverbed on the Nevada map.


Edited by Hummingbird
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