Is it me or is the F14 getting owned in multiply Player?

[CAmastersgt]

2+3 = 9

 

OMG, this is getting good. Heating up my Ramen with Egg. :megalol:

[Wizard_03]

I think this my favorite thread, it’s got the perfect mix of trash talk, BS, and RL experience. :)

[enigma6584]

I think this my favorite thread, it’s got the perfect mix of trash talk, BS, and RL experience. :)

 

I'll put my money on the RL experience.

[jcdata]

Besides victory and the eagle driver who else has real life experience? I just read chair simulation fans bantering... Which basically killed a whole scope of this thread..

 

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[ENO]

"miss'iles... Miss.. they aren't called .."hittles"...

 

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Thanks Dozer ;)

[Eldur]

pKkmgMTR9ww

 

Dunning Kruger effect in a nutshell:

 

I've been reading, talking and writing the English language for 25 years now, almost on a daily basis and thought I was good at it. I had to look up the verb "to opine"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Simply because I never heard of or read it before, in over two decades

 

And then... well, it has the word root as "opinion"

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

 

:P

Edited April 9, 2019 by Eldur

[RustBelt]

 

Originally Posted by royalwin View Post

Well said, Victory!

 

Heck, our simulators when I flew didn't even have viz at all!

Despite all that, I do love playing this thing

 

Wait.....this can't be true..... is it???? :huh:

 

Yeup. Up to the mid or late 80’s most big sims didn’t have any visuals. Level A & B Full Flight Simulators (Motion and specific make and model) and any Flight Training Device (Stationary) below Level 7 don’t require ANY visual simulation. Since their role is IFR operations and system Training. Thanks to software like X-plane and Microsoft’s ESP derived from Flight Sim(now Lockheed Prepar3D) visuals are so cheap and easy there’s no point not putting full rich visuals in everything except Partial task trainers.

[jojo]

Maybe you thought you didnt need more crap on that Throttle and Stick because you didnt know what you were missing out on? ;)

 

 

Its funny , single seat guys that flew glass pit fighters with proper HOTAS didn't feel that way at all.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803638&postcount=84

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803684&postcount=91

 

 

Not even Strike eagle pilot thought 2 seaters were really usefull unless for A/G tasks

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803922&postcount=97

 

The dont at all require you to be distracted to stare at them instead of looking outside the pit. Less so in a WVR scenario as HUD displays more information ( especially critical ones like Airspeed, G overload) vs having to glace down at analog instruments. like you do in the A/B Tomcat because of a simpler HUD.

 

the glass pits are not any more distracting that having to glance down at the Tomcats displays. In fact arguably less so because they are located just underneath to the left and right of the HUD. and they would be used to display critical information that is actually useful like what your Radar sees or the SA page for Datalink.

 

 

 

 

Todays with more automated systems a backs seater is only really "Nice to have" for reducing workload when it comes to multitaasking for A/G related stuff, IE navigation or comms management, whilst the pilot manages the weapons.

 

Even a USMC study found that such functions a backseater only improved efficiency for A2G related roles, whereas single seater Hornet pilots had no issues handling A2A related tasks.

 

 

If I'm right, Victory flew both Tomcat and Hornet IRL and you're trying to teach him avionic, HOTAS and crew management ? :megalol:

[Kev2go]

Dunning Kruger effect in a nutshell:

 

I've been reading, talking and writing the English language for 25 years now, almost on a daily basis and thought I was good at it. I had to look up the verb "to opine"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Simply because I never heard of or read it before, in over two decades

 

And then... well, it has the word root as "opinion"

 

 

 

No its actually what happens when a bunch of type "A" personalities butt heads together.

 

You should have seen the F18 vs F16 thread, and then those were actual pilots trash talking each other when the backseat drivers showed up to crash the party, which resulted in some posts being deleted. Ultimately as in that thread, long story short each pilot thinks their given aircraft is the best one.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Kev2go

[Hummingbird]

Well this thread certainly went south fast....

 

In the meantime we've been doing lots of DACT, last against well flown F/A-18's which demand an entirely different approach in the Tomcat.

 

Flown to it's the strengths the F/A-18 so far seems to be the toughest opponent for the Tomcat in a guns only fight. Contrary to expectations going fast to retain a lot of excess energy past the merge and fightining in the vertical doesn't really work well against the F/A-18 (atleast not a clean one). Instead quickly throwing the cat around in a min radius turn and subsequently attempting to force a one circle fight maintaining around 300-325 knots has so far proven the safest way forward. Should you succeed in forcing the one circle fight the superior STR of the Cat will then eventually have it end up on the F/A-18's tail. The F/A-18 is by no means defenceless in this situation however, as the carefree handling coupled with superior extreme AoA characteristics often allows it to reverse the situation by forcing overshoots - and if you overshoot an F/A-18 you're often in big trouble due to the F/A-18's extreme nose pointing ability. Thus if you sense this is about to happen there is only one option, go up up up, and then once you see his nose fall reverse and come down behind him again. We've got a good track of this that I will post later.

 

PS: It took quite a few deaths by the hands of the Hornet (expertly flown by Sandman, who also turned out to be an airforce pilot [what is it with me and attracting these?? :D ]) to finally figure this one out, partly due to initial issues with keeping visual (damn water again) but more so due to incorrect expectations in regards to the vertical capabilities of the Hornet - and ofcourse finally & mostly the expert piloting by Sandman. Was a real learning experience for all parties.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Hummingbird
Corrected a few typos

[birdstrike]

one thing is for sure...f-14 is very capable in the right hands. it will just need training, probably more than in other jets, but that makes it even more attractive.

PS: nice session on sunday with Hummingbird and others. maybe slightly too much booze involved, but still lots of fun and good training.

[Angel101]

Well this thread certainly went south fast....

 

In the meantime we've been doing lots of DACT, last against well flown F/A-18's which demand an entirely different approach in the Tomcat.

 

Flown to it's the strengths the F/A-18 so far seems to be the toughest opponent for the Tomcat in a guns only fight. Contrary to expectations going fast to retain a lot of excess energy past the merge and fightining in the vertical doesn't really work well against the F/A-18 (atleast not a clean one). Instead quickly throwing the cat around in a min radius turn and subsequently attempting to force a one circle fight maintaining around 300-325 knots has so far proven the safest way forward. Should you succeed in forcing the one circle fight the superior STR of the Cat will then eventually have it end up on the F/A-18's tail. The F/A-18 is by no means defenceless in this situation however, as the carefree handling coupled with superior extreme AoA characteristics often allows it to reverse the situation by forcing overshoots - and if you overshoot an F/A-18 you're often in big trouble due to the F/A-18's extreme nose pointing ability. Thus if you sense this is about to happen there is only one option, go up up up, and then once you see his nose fall reverse and come down behind him again. We've got a good track of this that I will post later.

 

PS: It took quite a few deaths by the hands of the Hornet (expertly flown by Sandman, who also turned out to be an airforce pilot [what is it with me and attracting these?? :D ]) to finally figure this one out, partly due to initial issues with keeping visual (damn water again) but more so due to incorrect expectations in regards to the vertical capabilities of the Hornet - and ofcourse finally & mostly the expert piloting by Sandman. Was a real learning experience for all parties.

 

Hi Hummingbird, can you do a small test? Try to dogfight another human in Nevada and tell me if you appreciate any difference in performances.

 

Thanks.

[Hummingbird]

Hi Hummingbird, can you do a small test? Try to dogfight another human in Nevada and tell me if you appreciate any difference in performances.

 

Thanks.

 

We can do that, but should there be any difference? I mean on the Nevada we usually fight in a dryedout riverbed about 15 ft above SL.

[Icebeat]

Some great comments here. I disagree with people saying the F-15 is arcadey, in term of avionics sure it is but in terms of ACM it still uses a PFM so the flight model should be consistent with the real deal.

 

+1

[SonofEil]

Well this thread certainly went south fast....

Ha, the very title of this thread is pure bait. A know-it-all or two took it hook line and sinker, as expected.

Your write ups are interesting and informative so at least we have that. Though at this point I think they’re deserving of their own thread.

[jcdata]

No its actually what happens when a bunch of type "A" personalities butt heads together.

 

You should have seen the F18 vs F16 thread, and then those were actual pilots trash talking each other when the backseat drivers showed up to crash the party, which resulted in some posts being deleted. Ultimately as in that thread, long story short each pilot thinks their given aircraft is the best one.

If RL pilots came into bash one another than I really question the professionalism or their authenticity of actually being one. In my years of simulation (90s) and dealing with real life pilots they no way I act like that on any type of public forum on the internet!

 

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[MPK]

Well this thread certainly went south fast....

 

Of course, it is the internet :)

 

There is some fantastic content in here though, from yourself, Victory, etc. Keep it please, for those of us who want the information and appreciate the effort!

[Hummingbird]

Thank you for the kind words guys, will have a video up shortly showcasing one way to effectively fight the F/A-18 in the F-14. As we discover more approaches we will make sure to update you on it.

[Hummingbird]

F-14 vs F/A-18 guns only:

 

kJ9QXh6txJo

 

You will notice a mistake at ~1:20 min where instead of adjusting and aligning my vector with his I lose visual and basically ride my own circle twice, this in the end allowed him a snap shot he otherwise wouldn't have had. This goes to show how important keeping visual and constantly countering your opponents moves really is.

 

Anyway I narrowly survive the mistake thanks to the high rate I maintained throughout the maneuver, and having now spend precious energy on violently throwing his nose around going for that snap shot, Sandman in his F/A-18 is having to reduce rate to regain energy. This is when I slide in behind him and stayed there.

[captain_dalan]

F-14 vs F/A-18 guns only:

 

kJ9QXh6txJo

 

You will notice a mistake at ~1:20 min where instead of adjusting and aligning my vector with his I lose visual and basically ride my own circle twice, this in the end allowed him a snap shot he otherwise wouldn't have had. This goes to show how important keeping visual and constantly countering your opponents moves really is.

 

Anyway I narrowly survive the mistake thanks to the high rate I maintained throughout the maneuver, and having now spend precious energy on violently throwing his nose around going for that snap shot, Sandman in his F/A-18 is having to reduce rate to regain energy. This is when I slide in behind him and stayed there.

 

What you guys effectively did there was rolling scissors, albeit pretty steep ones at times. It's one of the best ways to utilize the "vertical" in the F-14 (any version), which doesn't always mean going up, but rather exploiting those "peaks" and "valleys" in your excess power charts :thumbup:

 

Good flying mate:pilotfly:

Keep 'em coming!

 

EDIT: subscribed to your channel BTW.

Edited April 9, 2019 by captain_dalan

[Hummingbird]

What you guys effectively did there was rolling scissors, albeit pretty steep ones at times. It's one of the best ways to utilize the "vertical" in the F-14 (any version), which doesn't always mean going up, but rather exploiting those "peaks" and "valleys" in your excess power charts :thumbup:

 

Good flying mate:pilotfly:

Keep 'em coming!

 

Yeah sort of a looping rolling scissors :) Main thing I wanted though was force him into the flat horizontal turn which is where the Cat really shines :)

[tn_prvteye]

[MPK]

Thank you for the kind words guys, will have a video up shortly showcasing one way to effectively fight the F/A-18 in the F-14. As we discover more approaches we will make sure to update you on it.

 

What is your technique for staying at an appropriate AOA while turning? Are you just purely going off the buffeting cues, or glancing at the AOA meter?

[Whiskey11]

F-14 vs F/A-18 guns only:

 

kJ9QXh6txJo

 

You will notice a mistake at ~1:20 min where instead of adjusting and aligning my vector with his I lose visual and basically ride my own circle twice, this in the end allowed him a snap shot he otherwise wouldn't have had. This goes to show how important keeping visual and constantly countering your opponents moves really is.

 

Anyway I narrowly survive the mistake thanks to the high rate I maintained throughout the maneuver, and having now spend precious energy on violently throwing his nose around going for that snap shot, Sandman in his F/A-18 is having to reduce rate to regain energy. This is when I slide in behind him and stayed there.

 

Nice video! I think you and I are operating on the same wavelength lol. I just put out one today too but vs an AI Hornet rather than a real pilot:

 

 

I'm not sure I'd want to force a Hornet to a low speed fight because of how much better nose authority it has. Staying in the vertical until you've bled what energy the Hornet has is absolutely critical, then using the vertical to get on their six and finish them in that lower energy state.

 

Your rolling corkscrew scissors was pretty impressive though! :)

[Hummingbird]

What is your technique for staying at an appropriate AOA while turning? Are you just purely going off the buffeting cues, or glancing at the AOA meter?

 

I'm constantly looking down at the AoA strip.