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DCS Carrier Discussion


Airhunter

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And this is what will happen when SC SP is going to released, this mentioned toxicity grows and ED will be blamed why they released it in an buggy state, if bugs are happening.

 

As I already mentioned, I also didn't like that the delay was announced at release day. But I think that is way better than releasing it and not learning from F-16 and 2.5.6

 

Greetings

Wayan

 

Did I miss something? They did not say there was a host of bugs, they quite clearly stated that the problem holding up SC involves multiplayer desync errors. How is this going to cause a problem on single player?

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Did I miss something? They did not say there was a host of bugs, they quite clearly stated that the problem holding up SC involves multiplayer desync errors. How is this going to cause a problem on single player?

 

No, you didn't, but cleaning it up for SP involves stripping parts off the Module, an preparing it for SP only, and the rage will be huge if that doesn't happen flawlessly.

 

ED sets the dates that they plan to release their product in (largely) functional state. The choice of a) releasing a buggy mess on time or b) a functioning product late, is false dilemma you've created. It ignores choice c) get the date right in the first place.

 

I don't doubt the difficulty of what ED are trying to do, but it doesn't matter. Failure to deliver means loss of confidence and potentially loss of customers thereafter. You don't have to agree with those people for it to be true.

 

I am with you at the point that this was communicated in a bad way, but drom that you could go over to a point and say "go, play stable and avoid early access"

When I started with computers, there was no such thing like early access, but it is a model that has prevailed ovr the last years.... sadly.

When early access startet to show up, it was clear that this work WILL contain bugs, and WILL be missing a vast amount of features.

 

Sadly, over the last years, early access evolved to be seen like "Its finished, give it to me, maybe it's missing small things"

So just for MY(!) opinion, IF you go for early access - count on things will fail. I think people tend to forget what the terms early access and open beta are meaning.

 

And if i buy something EA, i must consider my money is wasted, the devs loosing interest in the project or whatever happens.

 

So, to close the circle - No, I cannot accept your point c) because that would, again, in my opinion, not apply to an early access product. I agree with it in terms of a finished thingie, like a release of a full game, not being in EA or in OB or whatever.

 

Greetings

Wayan


Edited by Wayan
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I dont mind waiting for supercarrier. Personally am with ED since days of Flanker. They pushed this sim more then I ever though possible and always delivered what they promised. I per-purchased it and whenever you guys think its ready is fine by me. :thumbup:

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  • ED Team
I dont mind waiting for supercarrier. Personally am with ED since days of Flanker. They pushed this sim more then I ever though possible and always delivered what they promised. I per-purchased it and whenever you guys think its ready is fine by me. :thumbup:

 

Thank you for your support and patience, we appreciate it.

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So, to close the circle - No, I cannot accept your point c) because that would, again, in my opinion, not apply to an early access product. I agree with it in terms of a finished thingie, like a release of a full game, not being in EA or in OB or whatever.

 

OK but if your opinion is that advertised dates are meaningless and can't be trusted, that takes us straight back to my other point: Failure to deliver means loss of confidence and potentially loss of customers thereafter.

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OK but if your opinion is that advertised dates are meaningless and can't be trusted, that takes us straight back to my other point: Failure to deliver means loss of confidence and potentially loss of customers thereafter.

 

No, you missed my reference for EA and Beta.

For a full product - you are right.

 

You get a nearly 100% accurate release date for the SC on DCS Stable - there is the point where confidence and customers SHOULD get lost.

I repeat, you opted in for early access and open beta!

 

Greetings

Wayan

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Sadly for you, like ED i come with Terms and Conditions, that again like those of ED work in my favour.

 

ED's are linked on the front page of the website if you cant find them.

 

They can delay and cancel at their will and you agreed to them doing so.

 

 

Not so fast: EUAs often have all sorts of provisions that wouldn't hold up under tort. And if they violate local consumer laws, doesnt matter if you agreed to them or not.

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No, you missed my reference for EA and Beta.

For a full product - you are right.

 

You get a nearly 100% accurate release date for the SC on DCS Stable - there is the point where confidence and customers SHOULD get lost.

I repeat, you opted in for early access and open beta!

 

Greetings

Wayan

 

EA/beta/rull release, it doesn't matter. You're trying to tell people they have no grounds to lose confidence, but I'm telling you right now some already have. Whether you agree or not is completely irrelevant. You can't tell other people what their opinion should be.

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Dear virtual pilots I understand your frustration with DCS however DCS has produced a virtual world that has allowed me to fulfill my flying dream. Please have patience let them work and cut them some slack they are doing their best in making sure ALL the bugs are fixed. Thank ED for making this dream come true for me.

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EA/beta/rull release, it doesn't matter. You're trying to tell people they have no grounds to lose confidence, but I'm telling you right now some already have. Whether you agree or not is completely irrelevant. You can't tell other people what their opinion should be.

 

Yeah, and that is because of people have forgotten what these terms mean!

ea/beta/full, YES it matters!

 

one or two decades ago that couldn't happen, there was no early access, with what a dev makes money for letting you in a maybe broken or buggy game early.

People tend to say "it MUST be this and that", no, it's early access you opt in for, live with the consequences that may result out of the DESIGN of early access.

 

And yes, you are right, in MY opinion, people have no grounds to lose confidence about an early access product, because they KNEW what early access can bring with it, it is a damn delay, not a cancellation, nothing whatever.

 

If one gets down by such things, they sholdn't have hopped on the early access train.

 

Greetings

Wayan

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Sadly for you, like ED i come with Terms and Conditions, that again like those of ED work in my favour.

 

ED's are linked on the front page of the website if you cant find them.

 

They can delay and cancel at their will and you agreed to them doing so.

 

 

Mere technicalities.

 

 

Just make that payment today and I'll be by Monday. Really, for sure. Monday. Maybe. Yeah, I'm sure probably Monday. And I'm equally sure if I don't show up after you paid me there will be no rotational gesticulations of female undergarments on your part.

 

 

So if you don't mind... greedy.gif

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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I've heard people say that the SuperCarrier should have been offered as a 'free' update. You know, get thousands of man hours coding and bug testing for "free". Maybe these people would rather travel to Russia to give out food parcels to ED's devs so they can feed their families and run generators at ED's offices to keep the light on. The salty tsunami of lemons all sucking on the same acidic bitterness was inevitable because they don't understand the complexity of DCS Worlds' development.

 

If all the lemons spent a day at ED and observed the development of the SuperCarrier and its challenges, I'm sure they'd all stop crying into their cornflakes. When the devs fix one thing it often breaks several other things. It's the nature of the beast of game development and the very reason why modules and updates are often delayed. It's almost impossible to predict an exact date when a module will be ready for release, but game developers are between a rock and a hard place, as it's pretty much mandatory that they have to give an estimated date of release to satisify consumers a to given themselves a date to work towards.

 

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But nevertheless, I can fully understand ED, as they don't wish to repeat the shitstorm arising on the release of the F-16.

 

 

 

Until someone on the SC team said, "Hold my beer!"

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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My ideas

 

Hey guys, I had a few ideas regarding the Supercarrier, what do you think?

 

 

1. Basic (appear beside plane), or even detailed (interact with plane and weapons) animations for:

a. Purple shirts if asked ground crew for refuel

b. Blue shirts if asked ground crew to remove chocks

c. Red shirts putting on weapons when selected weapon load

 

2. Plane directors who guide you to the parking spot selected in the Mission editor?

 

3. "pushback" function for the deck crew (maybe even with animation), regarding the planes being pushed into their parking locations in real life

 

4. a "Weight board operator"

 

5. a brown shirt helping and instructing you during your startup (with animation)

 

6. updated version of the sh-60b or implement the sh-60s seahawk

 

7. change the parking behavior of helicopters after they landed on the carrier

 

8. F18E AI, most importantly an F18E Tanker

 

9. if no F18E possible, a more detailed model of the S-3b

 

10. implement weapon trailers

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Yeah, and that is because of people have forgotten what these terms mean!

ea/beta/full, YES it matters!

 

one or two decades ago that couldn't happen, there was no early access, with what a dev makes money for letting you in a maybe broken or buggy game early.

People tend to say "it MUST be this and that", no, it's early access you opt in for, live with the consequences that may result out of the DESIGN of early access.

 

And yes, you are right, in MY opinion, people have no grounds to lose confidence about an early access product, because they KNEW what early access can bring with it, it is a damn delay, not a cancellation, nothing whatever.

 

If one gets down by such things, they sholdn't have hopped on the early access train.

 

Greetings

Wayan

 

Telling people who don't like EA they shouldn't buy into it, while at the same time telling them they have no grounds to lose confidence is a contradiction and makes no sense. If people stop buying that's just about the most objective indication that confidence has been lost as you can get.

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But people should not buy into early access if they can't handle the pitfalls.

 

Early access is an unfinished product, no secrets there. The release date for early access should be regarded as a target, not a deadline.

 

People are allowed to be disappointed, it is natural to be so if the module is late and it is fine to express that disappointment.

 

However it is not fine to play the blame game, poking fingers at various aspects of the release and saying ED are some sort of charlatan, when the real problem lies with some people's over expectation of what an early access release is.

 

In case some still don't get it I will spell it out.

 

Early access means you are buying into an unfinished product that may be delayed, buggy or even completely broken. In addition, it may well break something else and on successive occasions. That's why you get a discount, just as you would get for buying a factory reject.

Expect it to be a disappointing roller coaster and you won't be devastated when it all turns to manure. It will come right in the end.

 

If you don't want the above, don't buy it. Wait for the final release. Easy.

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But people should not buy into early access if they can't handle the pitfalls.

 

Early access is an unfinished product, no secrets there. The release date for early access should be regarded as a target, not a deadline.

 

People are allowed to be disappointed, it is natural to be so if the module is late and it is fine to express that disappointment.

 

However it is not fine to play the blame game, poking fingers at various aspects of the release and saying ED are some sort of charlatan, when the real problem lies with some people's over expectation of what an early access release is.

 

In case some still don't get it I will spell it out.

 

Early access means you are buying into an unfinished product that may be delayed, buggy or even completely broken. In addition, it may well break something else and on successive occasions. That's why you get a discount, just as you would get for buying a factory reject.

Expect it to be a disappointing roller coaster and you won't be devastated when it all turns to manure. It will come right in the end.

 

If you don't want the above, don't buy it. Wait for the final release. Easy.

 

 

+1

 

 

 

 

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Telling people who don't like EA they shouldn't buy into it, while at the same time telling them they have no grounds to lose confidence is a contradiction and makes no sense. If people stop buying that's just about the most objective indication that confidence has been lost as you can get.
I am just telling, if you have doubts or tend to lose confidence in a project, then don't go for ea. If your know what ea could bring with it and accept it, e.g. a little delay, then go for it.

 

I hope now you got my point.

 

Because as it said: as a full release (e.g. for stable version) and not in beta, THEN you are right with your points.

 

Greetings

Wayan

 

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But people should not buy into early access if they can't handle the pitfalls.

 

Early access is an unfinished product, no secrets there. The release date for early access should be regarded as a target, not a deadline.

 

People are allowed to be disappointed, it is natural to be so if the module is late and it is fine to express that disappointment.

 

However it is not fine to play the blame game, poking fingers at various aspects of the release and saying ED are some sort of charlatan, when the real problem lies with some people's over expectation of what an early access release is.

 

In case some still don't get it I will spell it out.

 

Early access means you are buying into an unfinished product that may be delayed, buggy or even completely broken. In addition, it may well break something else and on successive occasions. That's why you get a discount, just as you would get for buying a factory reject.

Expect it to be a disappointing roller coaster and you won't be devastated when it all turns to manure. It will come right in the end.

 

If you don't want the above, don't buy it. Wait for the final release. Easy.

Thanks +1

 

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But people should not buy into early access if they can't handle the pitfalls.

 

Early access is an unfinished product, no secrets there. The release date for early access should be regarded as a target, not a deadline.

 

But ED WANTS people to buy into EA.

 

They're not going to encourage people to do so if they treat release dates as advisory.

 

I am just telling, if you have doubts or tend to lose confidence in a project, then don't go for ea. If your know what ea could bring with it and accept it, e.g. a little delay, then go for it.

 

I hope now you got my point.

 

Because as it said: as a full release (e.g. for stable version) and not in beta, THEN you are right with your points.

 

Greetings

Wayan

 

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I've understood your point from the beginning. What I'm pointing out is that you can't tell other people they have the wrong opinion.

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But ED WANTS people to buy into EA.

 

 

 

They're not going to encourage people to do so if they treat release dates as advisory.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've understood your point from the beginning. What I'm pointing out is that you can't tell other people they have the wrong opinion.

No not in that way - I just want all the ragers to think about what ea and beta means. This thinking has been lost long ago.

 

And of course does ED want customers to buy EA, but that doesn't change what EA means and what can happen.

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But people should not buy into early access if they can't handle the pitfalls.

 

Early access is an unfinished product, no secrets there. The release date for early access should be regarded as a target, not a deadline.

 

People are allowed to be disappointed, it is natural to be so if the module is late and it is fine to express that disappointment.

 

However it is not fine to play the blame game, poking fingers at various aspects of the release and saying ED are some sort of charlatan, when the real problem lies with some people's over expectation of what an early access release is.

 

In case some still don't get it I will spell it out.

 

Early access means you are buying into an unfinished product that may be delayed, buggy or even completely broken. In addition, it may well break something else and on successive occasions. That's why you get a discount, just as you would get for buying a factory reject.

Expect it to be a disappointing roller coaster and you won't be devastated when it all turns to manure. It will come right in the end.

 

If you don't want the above, don't buy it. Wait for the final release. Easy.

 

 

DCS makes money from the early release game. And that's fine with me. A lot of people would be fine getting $1.50 today instead of $2.00 in two-months. It's business, maybe even good business. And the delays are understandable. I've been into flightsims for 25 years and there are always delays.

 

 

But the delay is not the point. The way the delay was handled is.

 

 

And it was handled badly, that is why there is so much noise right now. Had it been handled well, there would not have been the cyclone of negativity in the last 24 hours. This is a mistake that belongs to DCS. This is not the customer's fault.

Some of the planes, but all of the maps!

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