Beirut Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I listened to an excellent interview with Nick Grey from ED - who sounds like a great guy - and unless I heard wrong, he said that putting out early release modules was crucial to the business plan and they could not function without it. Fine with me. But all these people who say we should just wait until all the bugs are squashed until we get something are speaking in contradiction to the basic business plan that keeps DCS alive. In other words, they could have released the carrier for SP, known MP bugs included, because by their own account pretty much everything is released with known bugs. So I still cannot understand why the SP crowd has to wait and why it is being considered that refunds will be given for a product we want to have, have already paid for, and could have today. There might be more under the hood than this, but at least on the surface, this PR/communications situation has been handled miserably by someone on their side of the fence. And again, I love DCS, I think it's a ton of fun, and I will continue to buy stuff. Some of the planes, but all of the maps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Perhaps there'd be a certain amount of effort that would need to be diverted to an SP only release, which they understandably don't want to do if they're not too far off from releasing the whole thing? Just a guess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirut Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 That makes sense, and maybe that was a consideration. But maybe it could have just been released with the MP broken. Other modules are released with things that just don't work and are fixed later. If it turns out that we have to wait weeks and get a "Plan B/C/D" SP release because they can't fix the MP until much later, this will have been a glorious waste of time and customer patience on their part. Some of the planes, but all of the maps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ovets423 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Refund? Refunded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirut Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Refunded. That's too bad, I'm still looking forward to it. Some of the planes, but all of the maps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 That makes sense, and maybe that was a consideration. But maybe it could have just been released with the MP broken. Other modules are released with things that just don't work and are fixed later. The important point is, what is affected by the issues? Just the SC if placed in a MP mission could be solved with a simple release note warning. So much more likely it breaks Multiplayer and that is a showstopper. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOPR Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Perhaps there'd be a certain amount of effort that would need to be diverted to an SP only release, which they understandably don't want to do if they're not too far off from releasing the whole thing? Just a guess! One of the main features is 14 spawn points which is not super useful in SP. The other is being able to do something similar to what the Stingers demo so frequently on youtube. Releasing module that is so clearly aimed at enhancing the mutli-player experience as single player seems like a bad move. It may not just be the effort. The bugged trapping video that someone sent me is probably why they are holding and trying to fix the bug. The reaction to a bug like that would be way worse than being late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 One of the main features is 14 spawn points which is not super useful in SP. The other is being able to do something similar to what the Stingers demo so frequently on youtube. Releasing module that is so clearly aimed at enhancing the mutli-player experience as single player seems like a bad move. It may not just be the effort. The bugged trapping video that someone sent me is probably why they are holding and trying to fix the bug. The reaction to a bug like that would be way worse than being late. I made the same statement in the road map thread. Don't really understand why this is a hard concept for ppl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirut Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 The important point is, what is affected by the issues? Just the SC if placed in a MP mission could be solved with a simple release note warning. So much more likely it breaks Multiplayer and that is a showstopper. I'm sorry, I didn't see this post before I responded to your similar points in another thread. Yes, you may be 100% correct. But the delay was clearly mishandled. This was just flat out bad communications. Some of the planes, but all of the maps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameoutme Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I listened to an excellent interview with Nick Grey from ED - who sounds like a great guy - and unless I heard wrong, he said that putting out early release modules was crucial to the business plan and they could not function without it. I heard the same interview, and caught on to the "business plan" description. This however can become a problem when pre-buy and early access funds are used to essentially borrow from the future. When the future arrives there is insufficient new sales to fund ongoing expenses, necessitating something else sold early access, and so on. If it is probably managed, there's no harm. If things get out of hand, it becomes essentially a ponzi scheme. Maybe not intentional, but when people (or companies) essentially live on credit cards of the future, it is easy to get out of hand. And it's nothing we will know until chapter 11. I hope this doesn't come to pass. More likely, update will slow to a crawl. The M-2000 modual has been out for 3 years, it has a huge fan base including me, but they just can't seem to finish it and have introduced new bugs in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamin_Squirrel Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I heard the same interview, and caught on to the "business plan" description. This however can become a problem when pre-buy and early access funds are used to essentially borrow from the future. When the future arrives there is insufficient new sales to fund ongoing expenses, necessitating something else sold early access, and so on. Yeah if they had to rush each new module out the door so they could fund the next one that would be bad. I don't think it's quite as bad as it seems though. The Hornet and Viper in particular haven't gone as well as everyone would have liked; however I think that ED didn't rush them out the door to fund future modules, they're doing it to fund tech development for things like AA/AG radar, proper INS, TGP, IR shaders etc. It means things are a bit rough now, but it should make the release of future modules easier and prevent this stuff from happening (at least as much). ED may have its flaws, but everything it does seems to be for the long term - at least I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WytchCrypt Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I heard the same interview, and caught on to the "business plan" description. This however can become a problem when pre-buy and early access funds are used to essentially borrow from the future. When the future arrives there is insufficient new sales to fund ongoing expenses, necessitating something else sold early access, and so on. If it is probably managed, there's no harm. If things get out of hand, it becomes essentially a ponzi scheme. Maybe not intentional, but when people (or companies) essentially live on credit cards of the future, it is easy to get out of hand. And it's nothing we will know until chapter 11. That's exactly what I thought too. When you rely on new project pre-order funding to pay existing expenses, well...that's just not a long term sustainable business model - unless you have an unlimited quantity of new projects on tap and an unlimited customer base that's always willing to keep buying in (though there's no such thing as unlimited projects or unlimited customers especially in the niche market DCS lives in). Even so, there has to come a point where revenue from the sale of completed (not planned) projects covers expenses - hopefully with some leftover to fund new project development. Otherwise you'll wind up with a constant stream of new projects that never get out of EA because you need more pre-order new projects to fund their development, but then that isn't enough because you have additional labor costs to bring those pre-order projects to EA release. Eventually projects pile up in EA until you reach a tipping point where all the new project funds possible will never catch up and the dog is left chasing it's tail. I seriously hope that's not where ED is heading :( Alienware Area-51M: i7-9700K, 165Hz 27" ASUS Swift PG279 IPS with G-SYNC, 32GB DDR4 Ram, 1TB M.2 PCie x4 SSD, 1TB SSHD, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 8GB GDDR6, Windows 10, CH Eclipse... Check out my fictional F/A 18-C Hornet and Su33 Flanker skins at: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?CREATED_BY=WytchCrypt&set_filter=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmedges Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 So now that ED is extending the free trials for a month does that mean we shouldn’t expect a SC release for at least a month? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2020-04-17_FT_MONTH/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Allied Air Command Website | Allied Air Command Discord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Damn that is a good point. ED wanna clarify this, or should we wait for an announcement to announce the announcement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will- Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 That's exactly what I thought too. When you rely on new project pre-order funding to pay existing expenses, well...that's just not a long term sustainable business model - unless you have an unlimited quantity of new projects on tap and an unlimited customer base that's always willing to keep buying in (though there's no such thing as unlimited projects or unlimited customers especially in the niche market DCS lives in). Even so, there has to come a point where revenue from the sale of completed (not planned) projects covers expenses - hopefully with some leftover to fund new project development. Otherwise you'll wind up with a constant stream of new projects that never get out of EA because you need more pre-order new projects to fund their development, but then that isn't enough because you have additional labor costs to bring those pre-order projects to EA release. Eventually projects pile up in EA until you reach a tipping point where all the new project funds possible will never catch up and the dog is left chasing it's tail. I seriously hope that's not where ED is heading :( and what does this have to do w/ SC discussion. ED has been in business for many years. Go take all ur tin foil hats ideas else where, its getting tiresome. Intel i9-9900K 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080tiftw3, Windows 10, 1tb 970 M2, TM Warthog, 4k 144hz HDR g-sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisedByWolves Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 So now that ED is extending the free trials for a month does that mean we shouldn’t expect a SC release for at least a month? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2020-04-17_FT_MONTH/ I heard it will be out in two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirut Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 So now that ED is extending the free trials for a month does that mean we shouldn’t expect a SC release for at least a month? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2020-04-17_FT_MONTH/ Maybe, but what a way to keep the paying customers happy and attract new ones. I don't know if this is in response to how the SC delay was handled, but if so, somebody went hardcore above and beyond. And if not, it's still pretty spectacular. You don't see too many moves like this. 10/10 for customer relations with this. Couldn't be better. Some of the planes, but all of the maps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 While it is nice jester and a really good way to bring in new people, I hope the communications problems find a way to be fixed for future releases. If not we are right back in this boat in 6-12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rglmsgt Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Can someone tell me if they have received the supercarrier as of 4/17/2020 I thought it was released today, between 11-12pm? I received alot of downloads but no SuperCarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom88 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 I would love to see an "Official Answer" to this also...Sale till May 18th means...No Super Carrier Release till at Earliest May 19th?? Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy10uk Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Can someone tell me if they have received the supercarrier as of 4/17/2020 I thought it was released today, between 11-12pm? I received alot of downloads but no SuperCarrier No it’s been delayed, until sometime April / May. No current eta though [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history, Helicopter pilots make heros. :pilotfly: Corsair 570x Crystal Case, Intel 8700K O/clocked to 4.8ghz, 32GB Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 3200 MHZ Ram, 2 x 1TB M2 drives, 2 x 4TB Hard Drives, Nvidia EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW, Maximus x Hero MB, H150i Cooler, 6 x Corsair LL120 RGB Fans And a bloody awful Pilot :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DW2020 Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Can someone tell me if they have received the supercarrier as of 4/17/2020 I thought it was released today, between 11-12pm? I received alot of downloads but no SuperCarrierIam guessing you dont read the posts here very often? SC has been delayed until at least next month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy10uk Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 So now that ED is extending the free trials for a month does that mean we shouldn’t expect a SC release for at least a month? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/news/2020-04-17_FT_MONTH/ I was just coming to ask this very question, given that the first delay, the excuse was used that they don’t release during a sale, now granted we all know that was just an excuse and the real reason was it just wasn’t ready. BUT now they have openly stated that, are they gonna stick to it, which means no chance of getting the SC before at least the 18th May, or are they gonna decide to ignore that ruling and release anyway, knowing that will go against the policy they just told us about... :huh::huh::huh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history, Helicopter pilots make heros. :pilotfly: Corsair 570x Crystal Case, Intel 8700K O/clocked to 4.8ghz, 32GB Vengeance RGB Pro DDR4 3200 MHZ Ram, 2 x 1TB M2 drives, 2 x 4TB Hard Drives, Nvidia EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW, Maximus x Hero MB, H150i Cooler, 6 x Corsair LL120 RGB Fans And a bloody awful Pilot :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Maybe, but what a way to keep the paying customers happy and attract new ones. I don't know if this is in response to how the SC delay was handled, but if so, somebody went hardcore above and beyond. And if not, it's still pretty spectacular. You don't see too many moves like this. 10/10 for customer relations with this. Couldn't be better.Well, Wags said 18th of May in a certain video before the SC postponement. I probably shouldn't speculate further... Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaisedByWolves Posted April 17, 2020 Share Posted April 17, 2020 Can someone tell me if they have received the supercarrier as of 4/17/2020 I thought it was released today, between 11-12pm? I received alot of downloads but no SuperCarrier Did you hear we landed on the moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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