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DCS Carrier Discussion


Airhunter

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Thats true and of course should ED deliver what they promised and I'm sure they eventually will. The thing is that with this level of sophistication everybody expects from DCS modules, things happen to get out of hand and take longer than expected. But they are working on it and IMO thats as much as anybody can ask from them. I get the frustration I really do, but I try to appreciate/enjoy the things we already have more than looking at whats still missing.
Word man!

That's how I see it as well.

But the business model is flawed. Subscription model will kill this thing. But a kind of maintenance model might do it.

I might see it very different, but I come from oil and gas. 100K for one concurrent user license, geologically locked. And that's only for the core issue. And you still use it to guess...

 

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It's just not worth it guys, honestly. We talk, the majority say the same thing. 211 pages later, nothing changes.

 

 

Steve

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I am just slightly embarrassed to have convinced several friends and family to purchase this module already. They bought it the day before it was supposedly going to be released.. the first time. They are fairly new to the game and had no idea there was a chance that we could be months later with their money gone and no product. Buyer beware, but this is not normal business by any means. I am a diehard fan and will wait it out, but they are losing future customers over some bizarre situations that you simply do not see in other successful businesses.

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... but they are losing future customers over some bizarre situations that you simply do not see in other successful businesses.

 

Are you kidding me??

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Is the plan to releese the Marianas map together with the supercarrier? I really looking forward to that map :)

 

LOL, keep dreaming my man...

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"we are still planning for May sometime as long as testing goes to plan"

 

That hardly sounds like announcing a release date for the end of may...and more like an expression of wish...but hey! Its probably just my personal ignorance talking...

 

2 weeks ago they said by may 31. And of course it might change, and yup you can be mad if they miss that. But its not like they aren't trying to keep us in the loop, you just missed it and went overboard..

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Probably because it's not really the money people are really concerned with, nor the date being missed in and of itself. It's that people genuinely care about this product, and the repeated PR gaffes are worrying them. I think for some at least, requests for a refund are just expressions of frustration.

 

This. It isn't the money, its the delay moreso, but more to the point its the trend of really bad miscommunications and looking in from the outside ED's looking like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. And that's the concern, and there is increasingly a strong pattern of behavior to back it up. And then there are the random nuggets of truth that get dropped like: (and I'm paraphrasing here) "The SC was going fine, till 2 days before release when we had our first big test and the whole thing was a disaster."

 

I mean there are some serious red flags in that statement for me as a customer. The primary one being, you didn't test MP till 2 days before? Wow. I mean IMO if a product isn't ready and tested 1 week before the release date you pull the plug right then, delay it by whatever time you think you need you need + 2 weeks padding and try again. But that's just my opinion.

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That's no justification for selling a completed F/A18 module at price $x.xx (depending on when you paid) and then coming back and saying actually we might not deliver that at all...we'll deliver a % of those features and after that we'll see how it goes...

I have ZERO interest in playing a partly completed F/A18C module...indeed while I've purchased it...I haven't even opened it up...it sits awaiting completion...I fly the A10, the F5 and I fly Falcon 4 BMS...If they're ever finished I'll crack on with the Mirage, the Harrier and the Hornet...If I had known they were never going to be finished (as looks likely with the Harrier module and increasingly so with the Hornet) I'd never have purchased them...

I can't be the only one who feels the same way...

 

You're not, ED's EA example(s) have been pretty horrific to most of the community. But if that's the only way the can run the show, then its the only way. I fully agree that 3rd party devs need to be held to a MUCH higher standard, especially Razbam with their apocryphal history. But there are successes too, Heatblur is mostly ok IMO, as is Deka right now. M3, AvioDev IDK, they are small and slow. I have some faith in ED finish the more complex modules and develop the next version of DCS which is desperately needed to fullfil the basic claim of "combat simulator".

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I am just slightly embarrassed to have convinced several friends and family to purchase this module already. They bought it the day before it was supposedly going to be released.. the first time. They are fairly new to the game and had no idea there was a chance that we could be months later with their money gone and no product. Buyer beware, but this is not normal business by any means. I am a diehard fan and will wait it out, but they are losing future customers over some bizarre situations that you simply do not see in other successful businesses.

 

Sadly true even in the software development world ED is pretty much an outlier. I can't think of single other game I own that these sorts of problems and issues happen with. Once in a while they miss a release date or something, but its known and communicated WELL in advance. And I can't think of a single EA game I own that's had EA last more than a few months. And I've tried to tell ED they need to be really up front about that because some random dude is gonna buy EA expecting it to be done in 6 months like the rest of the civilized world, and then he's gonna be really pissed when its not and give up on it.

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Hi all. I’ve read through many of these comments and have a slightly different outlook. I’m probably significantly older than the average demographic for the game, but I’m happy to say I hear and speak to many people in my age bracket. I only mention that because there have been a whole slew of massive debacles I’ve witnessed in my decades of gaming (starting with the C64 and a game that took fifteen minutes to load - from a cassette). I can assure you the stuff going on here doesn’t even touch the stuff I’ve witnessed. Anyone remember Derrick Smart and his “neural AI” nonsense? THAT was a debacle. Star Wars Galaxies was a debacle. SC is delayed, not a debacle. Look ladies and gents, this is a very complex game. I don’t think for a second anyone at ED is actively engaged in some sort of coverup or malfeasance. Some posters need to unplug for a bit and relax. I’m super disappointed too. Yes, I prepaid.

 

This next part is really tough, but honest: if you’re sweating “missing” the $30 spent preordering SC you probably shouldn’t have spent the money in the first place. That’s your problem, not EDs. Because we gambled on a preorder (which is nothing but a promise in good faith) and then that pre order was delayed, hence the term “pre-order”, then too bad for us. It sucks, but that’s the way it is. It’s not like there’s something malicious going on.

 

We’re all going to survive, I promise. Seriously, stop all the whining lads - it’s gonna be ok.


Edited by Tokoyami
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Hi all. I’ve read through many of these comments and have a slightly different outlook. I’m probably significantly older than the average demographic for the game, but I’m happy to say I hear and speak to many people in my age bracket. I only mention that because there have been a whole slew of massive debacles I’ve witnessed in my decades of gaming (starting with the C64 and a game that took fifteen minutes to load - from a cassette). I can assure you the stuff going on here doesn’t even touch the stuff I’ve witnessed. Anyone remember Derrick Smart and his “neural AI” nonsense? THAT was a debacle. Star Wars Galaxies was a debacle. SC is delayed, not a debacle. Look ladies and gents, this is a very complex game. I don’t think for a second anyone at ED is actively engaged in some sort of coverup or malfeasance. Some posters need to unplug for a bit and relax. I’m super disappointed too. Yes, I prepaid.

 

This next part is really tough, but honest: if you’re sweating “missing” the $30 spent preordering SC you probably shouldn’t have spent the money in the first place. That’s your problem, not EDs. Because we gambled on a preorder (which is nothing but a promise in good faith) and then that pre order was delayed, hence the term “pre-order”, then too bad for us. It sucks, but that’s the way it is. It’s not like there’s something malicious going on.

 

We’re all going to survive, I promise. Seriously, stop all the whining lads - it’s gonna be ok.

:thumbup:

 

Those of us who remember what we had in the early days (C-64 was my first PC as well), probably have a greater appreciation for what we have now! Yes we need a dynamic campaign like Falcon4 and yes we need Vulcan and SuperCarrier and a completed Hornet, F16, etc.

 

But please....

 

DCS is the best thing to come along in a long time and is basically the only game in town. Overall, I think ED are doing a great job. Definitely not out to rob anyone of a few bucks :lol:

I agree......the constant whining is pathetic.

 

I'm 54. Started my flightsim hobby at 16 on a C64. Got my PPL 16 years later at 32. Love everything about aviation...real world and simulated:)


Edited by redtail

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Around 1984 I fell in love with flight sims so I seriously love ED too. Honestly, they can't really do wrong by me, I consider the money I've happily spent to be an absolute bargain for not just the quality of the product but also the sheer man-hours that I know full well goes into it. I've javascripted a little for IL2 SAAS mod version, I spent an entire year researching my Ta152C0/C3 flight models, spoke to incredible people like Dietmar Herman and the head mechanic on the White 8 FW190A8 warbird restoration and got access to their documents. Around 15 months after I announced it at the mod website I actually uploaded it. It's intense, and a journey.

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Hi all. I’ve read through many of these comments and have a slightly different outlook. I’m probably significantly older than the average demographic for the game, but I’m happy to say I hear and speak to many people in my age bracket. I only mention that because there have been a whole slew of massive debacles I’ve witnessed in my decades of gaming (starting with the C64 and a game that took fifteen minutes to load - from a cassette). I can assure you the stuff going on here doesn’t even touch the stuff I’ve witnessed. Anyone remember Derrick Smart and his “neural AI” nonsense? THAT was a debacle. Star Wars Galaxies was a debacle. SC is delayed, not a debacle. Look ladies and gents, this is a very complex game. I don’t think for a second anyone at ED is actively engaged in some sort of coverup or malfeasance. Some posters need to unplug for a bit and relax. I’m super disappointed too. Yes, I prepaid.

 

This next part is really tough, but honest: if you’re sweating “missing” the $30 spent preordering SC you probably shouldn’t have spent the money in the first place. That’s your problem, not EDs. Because we gambled on a preorder (which is nothing but a promise in good faith) and then that pre order was delayed, hence the term “pre-order”, then too bad for us. It sucks, but that’s the way it is. It’s not like there’s something malicious going on.

 

We’re all going to survive, I promise. Seriously, stop all the whining lads - it’s gonna be ok.

Agreed, also having witnessed the demise of studios like Microprose, Spectrum Holobyte, Papyrus, Sierra etc, once Hasbro & Vivendi pulled the plug because the genre didn't make enough dosh I consider ourselves lucky that companies like ED have found a way to do what they love.

 

I thint that too often we confuse them with big corporates out to make shareholders happy. That model has been proven not to work with hardcore simulations.

 

We are all in this together as hardcore flight combat sim fans!

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The wait will be rewarded! and only thanks to them if today we have a simulator of this realism. You don't have to complain about a release date, they are only solving the various bugs.Good guys keep it up


Edited by joinkmax

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Nightstalker's post is the real topic

 

Unfortunately, I have been listening to the back and forth of so many post here. I have come to the conclusion that many of us, though unwillingly, subject ourselves to illogical and seriously flawed argumentation. ED is, in fact, doing what any monopoly does in a profits first economy; they are merely practicing the main constituent of Corporate Capitalism. The problem, as stated by Nightstalker, is competition, which is the corner stone of capitalism. It is not only our right to complain, but it is our duty. It is the pressure, not the acquiescence, that gets things done effectively and efficiently. Has anyone on this site ever attempted to speculate the amount of money ED has made over the years. We are the customers and we deserve respect, not just from ED, but from all institutions that strictly adhere to a concept completely devoid of moral business consciousness.

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  • ED Team

Hi all

 

We appreciate the open feedback, good and bad, but please take a look at the forum rules before posting.

 

Keep the discussion about DCS and not other companies.

 

thank you

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Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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Unfortunately, I have been listening to the back and forth of so many post here. I have come to the conclusion that many of us, though unwillingly, subject ourselves to illogical and seriously flawed argumentation. ED is, in fact, doing what any monopoly does in a profits first economy; they are merely practicing the main constituent of Corporate Capitalism. The problem, as stated by Nightstalker, is competition, which is the corner stone of capitalism. It is not only our right to complain, but it is our duty. It is the pressure, not the acquiescence, that gets things done effectively and efficiently. Has anyone on this site ever attempted to speculate the amount of money ED has made over the years. We are the customers and we deserve respect, not just from ED, but from all institutions that strictly adhere to a concept completely devoid of moral business consciousness.
The alternative view is to question why other companies aren't vying to get into the space that ED are allegedly taking advantage of.

 

I don't want to get into the viability of ED but I would be very surprised if profit is a primary business goal. I would suggest it is the desire to create the product and making a livelihood is a necessity to achieve that goal.

 

For the volume of sales of realistic fighter combat simulation products I believe ED would need to charge significantly more before profit focused companies would enter the market.

 

There are enthusiasts that make products for niche enthusiast groups, the guys that keep old MGs on the roads do so for the love of the product, some barely make a living in spite of the rarity of their service. They love what they do and I think it is great when people can combine their personal interests with their work.

 

So far from a duty to hold some monopoly corporate beast to task maybe we should view them as fellow enthusiasts?

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While we are waiting for the news about SC progress, can we not get some insights into gameplay mechanics?

 

For example, since we were told that SP aspect of the module works, I would like to know this-

 

Based on the conveyed information we know that once the jets are launched, the crew will automatically reposition to make clear deck for recoveries.

 

I often do shots & traps one after a other, so question is this:

Will there be be an radio command, trigger or anything like it to summon them back to the launch sequence?

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While we are waiting for the news about SC progress, can we not get some insights into gameplay mechanics?

 

For example, since we were told that SP aspect of the module works, I would like to know this-

 

Based on the conveyed information we know that once the jets are launched, the crew will automatically reposition to make clear deck for recoveries.

 

I often do shots & traps one after a other, so question is this:

Will there be be an radio command, trigger or anything like it to summon them back to the launch sequence?

 

It would probably be tied to the request taxi to takeoff radio command, kinda like the carrier/field lights are tied to the request landing/inbound command

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From the draft manual, linked in the mini-updates thread, i can see no mention of any switch between departure and recovery states, but exactly what goes on behind the enhanced radio menu isn't really covered.

 

You can issue an inbound request and be directed to a holding stack, so you might expect the hold to come to an end when any queued departures have taken place. However, I couldn't see any mention of radio comms to request a departure, so the logic would have to be interesting to allow some behind-the-scenes calculations that would schedule departures and recoveries intelligently. That would be particularly important for multiplayer, although it would also probably be required for AI in SP.

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Unfortunately, I have been listening to the back and forth of so many post here. I have come to the conclusion that many of us, though unwillingly, subject ourselves to illogical and seriously flawed argumentation. ED is, in fact, doing what any monopoly does in a profits first economy; they are merely practicing the main constituent of Corporate Capitalism. The problem, as stated by Nightstalker, is competition, which is the corner stone of capitalism. It is not only our right to complain, but it is our duty. It is the pressure, not the acquiescence, that gets things done effectively and efficiently. Has anyone on this site ever attempted to speculate the amount of money ED has made over the years. We are the customers and we deserve respect, not just from ED, but from all institutions that strictly adhere to a concept completely devoid of moral business consciousness.

 

Complain away, just realize you’re pissing into the wind and no matter how much or how loudly you protest, none of that wasted effort or time will make SC available one millisecond sooner. Here’s how you “fight the man”: don’t pay for pre orders. But we did and it was delayed (it was a “pre order” after all).

 

We’re all disappointed. We all have to cowboy up on this one. It sucks, you’re right. I bet nobody is more disappointed than ED.

 

ETA - I am only talking about your comments, not you. I’m not trying to insult you. If I came across that way, I apologize sincerely. ETA - actually, one of my comments WAS snippy and I just edited it to hopefully be more polite.


Edited by Tokoyami
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You can issue an inbound request and be directed to a holding stack, so you might expect the hold to come to an end when any queued departures have taken place. However, I couldn't see any mention of radio comms to request a departure, so the logic would have to be interesting to allow some behind-the-scenes calculations that would schedule departures and recoveries intelligently. That would be particularly important for multiplayer, although it would also probably be required for AI in SP.

Here's my idea for how that could work.

1. User calls inbound, CVN checks to see if aircraft are getting set up for Cats 3 & 4, if true user is directed to marshall.

2. CVN completes launches already started on 3/4, but will not allow any guidance for further launches from those Cats.

3. Once 3 & 4 are clear, marshalling users are cleared to the Initial.

4. With no aircraft that have called for landing airborne, and the deck is clear, catapults 3 & 4 become active again.

5. Perhaps some check for users which call in range and either crash/disconnect/leave the area without a radio call....

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I just hope we'll have some flexibility in MP especially to send the AI 'below the roof' if they piss us off. Basically all I care about is a FUNCTIONING carrier with all systems running when I need them.

When it comes to AI a/c... I'm getting a weird feeling they will cause many wild hairs finding their way up my...:disgust: Well, I think I'm assuming too much, haven't even read the manual yet.

Let's see if there's anything about AI in there...

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