Need Helicopter Hotas recomendations.

[BaD CrC]

I am flying microhelis.de UH-1 cyclic and collective with crosswinds rudder pedals. If you are serious about flying helicopters, you don't want self centered controls because that is not how you fly these machines. On the minus side, this is not cheap at all.

[-0303-]

You can remove springs on the Warthog easily. On the other hand, VKB Gunfighter base has dry clutch option meaning the stick can override the springs and stay right where you leave it which is also great for helicopters.

For OP. You definitely can not make fast switches between spring and no spring with the WH joystick. It's 12 screws after removing the handle. Actually it's 22 screws total because you have to unscrew the bottom plate (4 more screws) to tighten the four screws at the bottom. They almost always get lose when unscrewing the four top ones. And there's two screws to loosen the circuit board to get to one of the them.

 

8 + 4 screws top. 4 + 2 + 4 bottom of base.

 

~

 

Knowing what I know now I would not have gone for the Warthog joystick. The throttle is fine. But for the joystick: X and Y axis are not separated. Spring is to stiff and can't be adjusted without modification. Gimbal is crap.

 

The WH handle (grip?) is fine (well, one button got iffy within weeks of intense use). The WH looks and feel solid on the outside but reading this forum it's cheaper on the inside.

 

~

 

I'm interested in upgrading to a VKB base based on what people say on this forum (and this thread). It seems a good bet, removing the main WH flaws, the gimbal and the nonadjustable strong springs. And also providing separate X & Y axis I believe. But I don't know enough about VKB to know what to get (yet).

 

~

The only next best thing is to get a FF stick, and ultimate one would be a VKB MCG with the contactless FF base

FF option for VKB base? Never heard of that before.
Edited April 16, 2019 by -0303-

[BranchPrediction]

-0303- What do you mean by x and y axes not seperated?

Also what is an FF base and what is a contactless base?

Lols sorry and thanks for answering :)

 

Edit: Ok ff is force feedback.

Edited April 16, 2019 by BranchPrediction

[-0303-]

X and Y axes separated. I understand (could be wrong) that the joystick X and Y axis works with a cam system with VKB (or was it Virpil?), have different springs and spring forces X & Y are therefore separately adjustable.

 

A cam system is for example the MFG Crosswind rudders.

 

I don't know what "contactless base" is. The Hall sensor thing maybe. Except, I'd thought non-potentiometer setups are a given today.

Edited April 16, 2019 by -0303-

[Griffin]

...VKB (or was it Virpil?)...

VKB and Virpil are different companies and one possibility nobody has yet mentioned is the Virpil WarBRD base and a grip of your choice with an extension. From them you could get the stick for a similar price to VKB with a very customizable extension but much faster.

Granted, they say that the WarBRD base is not designed for extensions but that is only due to the clearance issues with the old desk mount (not sold anymore) and larger deflection than T-50 base. It will work just fine with an extension.

The only reason I ordered the VKB stick is that it has an analog slew hat and the fact that I'm waiting for Ryzen 3000 at the same time so I'm not in a hurry.

I own the Virpil throttle and it's a fantastic piece of kit!

[-0303-]

I know VKB and Virpil are different companies.

For OP (and for me). Here's a short very illustrative video of a cam system with separate X and Y axis on the Virpil WarBRD base.

 

Video mentions it's Warthog compatible, meaning I could replace my Warthog base with a Virpil WarBRD base and keep the WH grip I already have as I understand it.

 

Given the large number of different cams and springs that can be installed the replacement process seems a bit complex. At least compared to MFG Crosswind which is really fast and simple with just two nuts while never getting close to any fragile components.

Video

.
Edited April 18, 2019 by -0303-

[BranchPrediction]

I see but the vkb base is better right? Cuz it also has 2 separate axes and it moves 22° if i remember correctly, either way u can move the stick more on vkb base than warBRD.

Im thinking ill get the warthog + extension and remove spring + add friction somehow so that the stick will stay in place, but if budget is bigger than i thought then i might look into buying the gunfighter mcg pro. But if i did that id need a collective and i cant find any except maybe komodsims' collective which is like 1000$ (collective + base) defenitely not gon buy that shit, besides those collective dont have many buttons and dont resemble the ka50' collective at all. I heard komodosims are making a ka50 collective tho, is that true? Do u guys know of any decent heli collective?

[BranchPrediction]

I know VKB and Virpil are different companies.

For OP (and for me). Here's a short very illustrative video of the cam system with separate X and Y axis on the Virpil WarBRD base.

 

 

Video mentions it's Warthog compatible, meaning I could replace my Warthog base with a Virpil WarBRD base and keep the WH grip I already have as I understand it.

 

Given the large number of different cams and springs that can be installed the replacement process seems a bit complex. At least compared to MFG Crosswind which is really fast and simple with just two nuts while never getting close to any fragile components.

Video

.

 

Vkb base looks a bit more simple.

 

Edit: hmm there are sales maybe i should buy the ka50 and perphaps the mi 8 now.

[-0303-]

I see but the vkb base is better right?

I don't know. I just knew Virpil and/or VKB had separate X and Y axis and were adjustable as opposed to the Warthog which isn't. I mainly wanted to tell you that I (probably) wouldn't go with a Warthog joystick knowing that I know now. There are joysticks that are better in the sense of being adjustable and maybe better quality. With TM WH I'm stuck with a non adjustable too strong spring.

 

Ed/add

The video wasn't to recommend the Virpil necessarily, it was mainly to show a cam system.

 

[VKB] Cuz it also has 2 separate axes

I thought so, but didn't know for certain VKB also separated axis until you said it now. I'm still looking for information on both VKB and Virpil to figure out which is better for me to upgrade with.

 

~

 

Comment on removing the big Warthog spring. I tried that but the handle is very heavy. It will fall over hard to the side without any spring. So hard it might damage itself even possibly. Some kind of spring is needed.

Edited April 18, 2019 by -0303-

[streakeagle]

I have no experience with the Virpil. I absolutely love the VKB MCG Pro. For the throttle, I am still using the Warthog. I find the Warthog throttle adequate for helos. I suppose, like the stick, the throttle would be better if I modified it with and extension to be more precise, but I haven't really had problems getting the collective where I want it with the Warthog. I can fly the UH-1, Mi-8, and Gazelle fairly well and don't really see where I would gain with a different collective controller other than having a 100% accurate movement range and control grip.

[dburne]

I thought so, but didn't know for certain VKB also separated axis until you said it now. I'm still looking for information on both VKB and Virpil to figure out which is better for me to upgrade with.

 

 

I have both. The original Virpil T-50 Mongoos and the VKB Gunfighter Mk 1 with MCG Pro grip. I use them both with extension and center mounted to my desktop.

Both are very good very high quality sticks - namely the gimbal system. Both are very smooth and quite customizable for feel.

 

My main stick currently for daily use is the Gunfighter. Mainly due to the MCG Pro grip, which I like a little better than the Virpil grip due to the number of buttons. Virpil has a better grip now as well, the CM2 which has more buttons also.

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/315-introducing-the-vpc-mongoost-50-cm-2-grip/

 

Virpil also has a new redesigned Mongoos T-50 base.

https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/377-unveiling-the-long-awaited-vpc-mongoost-50-flightstick-base-successor/

 

Either one you really can't go wrong with. Virpil one can probably get their hands on sooner than the VKB.

 

Edit: For desktop use rather than mounted with extension, both have options for that also. Virpil would be the WarBRD - VKB has desktop plate that comes with the regular non Pro Gunfighter.

Edited April 18, 2019 by dburne

[Bob_Bushman]

With the virpil's at least, since those are what I own.

The cam's and springs are there only to give centering force and a force profile across deflection.

 

The stick and axis themselves would honestly not need them at all, so albeit I haven't tested you should be perfectly able to just take the springs off and have a completely force less stick.

 

But with this being a sim where we have no G-forces, I think I would personally prefer to have some feedback through tension of the stick than nothing, so far my sticks are setup rather softly.

 

But like most here I'm nowhere near an actual pilot nor likely to even set foot in a helicopter unless I end up needing an airlift to a hospital.

[BranchPrediction]

mainly wanted to tell you that I (probably) wouldn't go with a Warthog joystick knowing that I know now.

 

I see, ur right ill probably regret it later on, besides comparing the the WH grip to the mcg pro the WH grip isnt all that good anymore.

But ill see what my budget allows.

[Griffin]

I see but the vkb base is better right?

No. I don't have experience from any of those yet but they are both really solid and you can't go wrong with either of them. I would say it's a matter of taste.

Note that Virpil has two bases, WarBRD and T-50.

WarBRD has around 22 degree deflection. T-50 has 16 degree and the VKB is something in between I believe. The deflection angle doesn't make any of the sticks better than the other.

[dawgie79]

If you fly helo's exclusively, I would take a look at MaxFlightStick. These cyclic's are hydraulic, which means they stay in place, no springs or anything. Ideal for helo's.

Would like one myself, but I'm still busy justifying the price. ;)

[FragBum]

Or you could just go cheap but good,.. :music_whistling:

 

Works a treat for choppers,.. :D

[BranchPrediction]

Or you could just go cheap but good,.. :music_whistling:

 

Works a treat for choppers,.. :D

 

That quality tho, but seriously ur 'rolling' with a 2080ti but then u have that 'quality' stick. Lolz i can not comprehend ur priorities.

[Svsmokey]

One has the option to build better quality than one can often buy...

[BranchPrediction]

If you fly helo's exclusively, I would take a look at MaxFlightStick. These cyclic's are hydraulic, which means they stay in place, no springs or anything. Ideal for helo's.

Would like one myself, but I'm still busy justifying the price. ;)

 

Bro haha i tell u guys my budget is 400ish € and then people recommend the vkb gunfighter mcg pro which is a lil above 400, and then u recommend me a 2k, 3k or 4k hotas? Jk but thats way too expensive, it will cost more than my entire pc.

[BaD CrC]

Again, no self centered stick are really valid for serious chopper sim pilots. So out with the warthog or virpil or anything discussed so far. (except dawgie79 suggestion which looks real nice but way more expensive than https://shop.microhelis.de/ which are also hydraulic damped (for the cyclic only)!).

[smallberries]

Yeah, if you're only flying helos I can see getting one of those fancy helo cyclics and collectives, assuming you can afford one. But what are you going to do if you also fly planes? Personally, I don't want to have to swap out my peripherals each time I swap modules, which I usually do several times during a night of DCS. The DCS trimmer options are a pain, I getting a nice coordinated flight, trimming out and then getting all wobbly when I recenter my stick (something the Mi-8 is much kinder about than the UH-1), but it's what I have to live with if I want to just click a few buttons and practice my CASE 1s.

[FragBum]

That quality tho, but seriously ur 'rolling' with a 2080ti but then u have that 'quality' stick. Lolz i can not comprehend ur priorities.

 

Yep.

 

Well it has dampers, no center detent or spring no built in dead zone. Feels pretty much like an actual cyclic. Granted it's not as light as an IRL R44 cyclic but the fact it stays where it's left is an advantage in DCS, a compromise I am willing to live with.

 

In it's current form it's had several hundred hours and still going strong, the money I save by not buying so called "quality" I get to spend on other stuff (like more stick time in an R44) besides it's a prototype and I fly VR who cares what it looks like.

 

You should see the collective and pedals. My point is they all work perfectly well and I can fix or modify any part of my kit as required, keep in mind quality has many attributes and not all of those are measured by the depth of your wallet. ;)

[-0303-]

Again for OP. I take back my statement about the throttle being fine. I wouldn't recommend either the TM joystick or the TM throttle. Bad design, low quality.

 

Now my throttle started to exhibit a slight plastic "crunchy" sound when one of the dual throttles moves past the other. The non moved throttle wiggles slightly sideways when the other throttle moves past it. It's 4 months old. I got the feeling that, whatever the friction mechanism is, it's starting to "frazzle". I couldn't find a pic of it. What I suspect:

Back in May 2015 I bought a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS. Serial number in the 33000 range.

 

It's had relatively little use. Recently the throttle has started to feel a little bit grindy at the top 80% or so of it's travel.

 

I opened it up and found what can only be called plastic shaving bits sitting on the base plate. They are also sticking to the internals of the throttle. The shavings are clearly coming from the friction plates. Both throttle levers are visibly affected, but only the right throttle feels grindy.

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1314543

 

 

This, makes me scared to even try to disassemble the throttle. I started to unscrew the screws underneath (before stopping) and noticed that the screws looks to be metal screws in plastic threads. Not a quality design.

 

~

 

About HOTAS being pricy. I wanted something with quality which would last me up to 5-10 years or more. An "investment" in the sense I wouldn't need anything else for a long time. I think I choose wisely with the MFG Crosswinds. I fell for the "charisma", the towering market position of TM Warthog and expected it to be good quality. I did read about the strong spring beforehand but rationalized it away to myself. It's true one gets used to the strong spring, but I'm also very sure I could fly with much better precision with a softer spring. In any matter, being able to adjust the spring is important, with the Warthog you can't.

 

~

 

I want to get into helicopters eventually. Most things I read (one needs a soft resistance) would dissuade me going for a Warthog for helicopters.

Edited April 19, 2019 by -0303-

[BranchPrediction]

Again for OP. I take back my statement about the throttle being fine. I wouldn't recommend either the TM joystick or the TM throttle. Bad design, low quality.

 

Now my throttle started to exhibit a slight plastic "crunchy" sound when one of the dual throttles moves past the other. The non moved throttle wiggles slightly sideways when the other throttle moves past it. It's 4 months old. I got the feeling that, whatever the friction mechanism is, it's starting to "frazzle". I couldn't find a pic of it. What I suspect:

This, makes me scared to even try to disassemble the throttle. I started to unscrew the screws underneath (before stopping) and noticed that the screws looks to be metal screws in plastic threads. Not a quality design.

 

~

 

About HOTAS being pricy. I wanted something with quality which would last me up to 5-10 years or more. An "investment" in the sense I wouldn't need anything else for a long time. I think I choose wisely with the MFG Crosswinds. I fell for the "charisma", the towering market position of TM Warthog and expected it to be good quality. I did read about the strong spring beforehand but rationalized it away to myself. It's true one gets used to the strong spring, but I'm also very sure I could fly with much better precision with a softer spring. In any matter, being able to adjust the spring is important, with the Warthog you can't.

 

~

 

I want to get into helicopters eventually. Most things I read (one needs a soft resistance) would dissuade me going for a Warthog for helicopters.

 

Really? Dagnabit i was planning on vkb stick + warthog throttle but now i dont even know, i dont feel like working a long time just to buy microhelis.de equipment ya know. Its no biggy tho ive still some time, ill just keep an eye out for a new throttle. Thanks yall

[-0303-]

... i dont feel like working a long time just to buy microhelis.de equipment ya know.

 

 

Your not wrong. It is exhausting to try to research everything. Been there.