Sweviver does a XTAL video - this is a whole new level

[Kirin]

${1}

[Nagilem]

Damn! That is nice. I love the better glass and lower mag to get better FPS and performance. Maybe it will be more mainstream in a year or two.

[*Rage*]

[Svsmokey]

I only need one kidney-right ?

[Pride37]

Awesome... Clarity is just astonishing. Except for the dedicated lenses, nothing really new inside (don't think it takes advantage of the eye tracking for rendering, only for auto-IPD), they just optimized the current techs. Didn't realize we could get such clarity with "basic" 1440p pentile OLED panels.

My bet for full consumer version in say... 2 years?? Hope I'm wrong...

[*Rage*]

With the reduced requirements and the performance uplift wags mentioned before this might finally be VR nirvana, if you have the money.

[pegon]

The concern here is exactly the lenses Pride37. Can they be produced in large numbers, or are they time and resource consuming to make ?

[Nagilem]

@ Rage - totally agree. Just wish I could keep my appendages, private bits, and have a few nickels left over to eat for the rest of the year after I bought it. :) Seriously considering though...

 

@ Pegon - I agree on the glass being the hardest part to manufacture economically for mass or wider production. New lenses will likely keep the costs high for a while. The question is - Will that be 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, or Always?

[Harlikwin]

Since day 1 I've been saying that quality optics matter alot in the design of these headsets, unfortunately, quality lenses = big big bucks. I'm 100% sure that the design tradeoff for the original gen1 and gen 1.5 headsets has primarily been the lenses. (God rays in particular are almost entirely due to lack use of AR coatings).

 

That being said, from what I "read" there has been alot of "focus" (pardon the pun) on lens design in the upcoming headsets. Both the HP reverb and the Valve index both claim to have superior optical designs. The Index patent shows a dual lens system that looks interesting. And the HP lenses are described as: squircle-shaped lenses that should utilize more of the image which means less zoom as well.

 

The other bit of "good news" that I think we will see in the future is larger focus on better/cheaper lens design. And as economies of scale work, hopefully the lens industry will start scaling better lenses.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Nagilem]

@Harlikwin - from your lips to the god of VRs ears.... I love the O+ I have, but I still feel like I got in the cockpit and forgot to wear my contacts or glasses. Especially with anything more than 1nm away.

 

Less zoom, less distortion, better optics might just equal much better visual acuity at a lower performance requirement. Now that would be something!

[Harlikwin]

Awesome... Clarity is just astonishing. Except for the dedicated lenses, nothing really new inside (don't think it takes advantage of the eye tracking for rendering, only for auto-IPD), they just optimized the current techs. Didn't realize we could get such clarity with "basic" 1440p pentile OLED panels.

My bet for full consumer version in say... 2 years?? Hope I'm wrong...

 

I think if they could cost reduce the device for "next-gen" use, and say be able to drop the price to 1-1.5 per set it would be a hit on the high end gaming market.

[Harlikwin]

@Harlikwin - from your lips to the god of VRs ears.... I love the O+ I have, but I still feel like I got in the cockpit and forgot to wear my contacts or glasses. Especially with anything more than 1nm away.

 

Less zoom, less distortion, better optics might just equal much better visual acuity at a lower performance requirement. Now that would be something!

 

Actually, I think "performance" requirements are quite reasonable for MOST VR games/apps. However unfortunately DCS is not "most VR apps" Hopefully those terrain engine optimizations help in this regard, and down the road Vulkan API.

 

Part of the reason everyone is pushing the higher res screens is that they are actually the cheaper part of the headset than good quality lenses (believe that or not).

 

 

Here is the patent for the lenses that "might be" used in the index. The also have patents on phase technique to reduce/eliminate SDE that may or may not be in the headset, and a patent for high res displays which I don't think is in the current headset, but will be coming down the road.

 

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/bf/96/3e/a6a94ed8109fd1/US20180081092A1.pdf

Edited April 19, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Gnadentod]

...

Damn I didn't know about this one, now you have showed me something mate ... over 5000 bucks.

 

With the reduced requirements and the performance uplift wags mentioned before this might finally be VR nirvana, if you have the money.

Yes, this might be the endgame already available. No need to wait years for the hardware or software to "evolve". Apparently the developers are planning to release a "gaming/consumer" version of the headset for the masses as heard from another tech-youtuber which met with them.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Der Hirte

[FoxTwo]

Damn I didn't know about this one, now you have showed me something mate ... over 5000 bucks.

 

 

Yes, this might be the endgame already available. No need to wait years for the hardware or software to "evolve". Apparently the developers are planning to release a "gaming/consumer" version of the headset for the masses as heard from another tech-youtuber which met with them.

 

As long as they don't sacrifice any of the detail or FoV to meet a better price point.

 

I don't necessairly need the eye tracking and automatic IPD adjustment.

[Harlikwin]

As long as they don't sacrifice any of the detail or FoV to meet a better price point.

 

I don't necessairly need the eye tracking and automatic IPD adjustment.

 

They will most likely. But its the stuff that people think is "simple" like lenses that actually end costing tons of money. I bet eye tracking tech is pretty cheap by comparison.

[Pride37]

The concern here is exactly the lenses Pride37. Can they be produced in large numbers, or are they time and resource consuming to make ?

 

Yeah, it seems so... Let's hope their manufacturing is compatible with consumer market... So far, I was convinced that the key For future VR was eye tracking and foveated rendering, but obsiously there's another way.

I can't imagine how VR will look like with all those optimisations combined!!

[Nagilem]

I concur with the aspherical lens comments for cost. The high end camera lens market has not gotten cheaper with time. The glass and what they do to it costs big bucks, and will likely remain that way for a while.

 

I'd love to try one of these out for a day or two to see if I want to save the big bucks for it. For $5k, it better be all that AND THE BAG OF CHIPS to justify cost.

[Gnadentod]

... So far, I was convinced that the key For future VR was eye tracking and foveated rendering, but obsiously there's another way.

I can't imagine how VR will look like with all those optimisations combined!!

Said tech-youtuber also said VRgineers, developers of XTAL, plan on implementing foveated rendering. He didn't state if fixed foveated rendering or the "real" one. The XTAL itself also has eye tracking already (for the automatic IPD adjustment).

 

...

Like most of the time - you get what you pay for. If you have one of these you can be sure to not need a "upgrade" for a long time while others are climbing up the ladder in terms of picture quality every 2 or so years. This will also cost them money which you don't pay then. This headset will separate the wheat from the chaff, the serious ones from the "casual".

Edited April 20, 2019 by Der Hirte

[pegon]

Lets for arguments sake say that these lenses remain to costly for the mass market. Can you still obtain the same image quality as this ?

You will need higher resolution panels to compensate for loss of screen real estate, you will also need more sophisticated software to compensate for distortion.

This will in turn require more gpu/cpu to run, so in 1-2 years this image quality will be available in a consumer headset.

For my self and my 5k+, there is still huge headroom in terms of pushing supersampling above 100% and getting in game settings maxed out.

[wormeaten]

XTAL is 5000$ but if you tracking what is going on with it true years, they are on market long as Pimax4K or StarVR, than you know it is a high quality product and basically hand made. There is no mass production who will make this HMD more affordable for the masses.

 

They say in an interview one year ago how they could reduce price in half if it will be mass produced as it is right now.

Today they work on consumer version for the consumer market and with removing some parts this price could drop on level how it is today with Vive PRO or Pimax5K with fool tracking and controllers solution.

 

How this will going we will see till the end of the year.

The biggest secret is in the lens and software. The lens is specially made for that purpose and prototype is done. Mass production will significantly reduce the price of such lens and display is already cheap because such displays are using in smartphone industry so it is already producing in huge quantity what makes it cheaper than those panels used in Vive PRO/SO+ or Reverb.

 

Inside out tracking could also significantly reduce the price and for Sim users practically don't have a difference in performance.

Sweviver is now working as tester and adviser for consumer version XTAL so this is just teaser for what you could expect in near future with consumer version for a significantly lower price. Forget about that 5000$ this is the price for the manually produced prototype for professional usage.

[Supmua]

I'm sure one of us here will bite once it's available to the public (myself excluded, lol). It is, however, exciting to see where the technology leads and hopefully this will trickle down to the cheaper and more affordable systems in the next few years.

[Gnadentod]

The XTAL seems to have a lot of modules coming with it which can be cut out for "gaming" purposes. Even if it "only" drops to 3000 or so it's worth it if you're passionate and serious. Like I said, with this you will not need any upgrades for quite some time while others have to pay themselves up to get better picture quality over years.

 

I'm sure one of us here will bite once it's available to the public (myself excluded, lol) ...

It is available to the public. If you have the cash you can have it now.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Der Hirte

[hansangb]

Yikes, this is telling

 

 

and why Xtal ran faster FPS then every other HMD

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by hansangb

[Harlikwin]

Yikes, this is telling

 

 

and why Xtal ran faster FPS then every other HMD

 

 

Yeah, this is why I keep hammering on about optics design. Take a 1080p monior and put a magnifying glass to it. What do you see? SDE, distortion etc. Good optics design minimizes all that, BUT, panels are cheap, good glass/plastic is expensive. Why do you think high quality sniper rifle optics cost thousands of dollars? The challenge is designing an optical system thats good, but doesn't cost a fortune. One good example in the rift is "god rays", totally solvable problem with the proper lens coatings. Guess who decided to save a few bucks rather than eliminate em.

[Boris]

Guess who decided to save a few bucks rather than eliminate em.

 

And thus Oculus buyers also save a few bucks. You get what you pay for and the Oculus Rift is very good for the price. XTAL is the other end of the spectrum.