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Carrier Landing: following ATC advice


ravenzino

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After Inbound call, carrier ATC will advise something like:

"...heading 111 for 12..."

 

Well, heading is easy to follow through, but what's the best way to figure out how far have I gone, am I there yet?

 

Do a quick math like Distance / Current Speed = Time, then try to count the seconds?

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I'm aware of the upcoming new one, but still curious: in that situation or any similar military aviation situation where you were told to go for a certain distance (and doesn't have to be pin-point accurate), what is the most authentic way to "measure" the distance while in the cockpit. Creating a markpoint on-the-go, not sure if that's doable in Hornet, or even if it is doable, would it worth the time to do so...

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PG, NTTR

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If you're getting instructions from ATC, then you can set up a TACAN with a course (use BRC for carrier), or you can use VOR and fly the indicated heading until the bearing for the VOR lines up with the runway. Other than time-and-distance calculations, there's no simple way to indicate when you've flown a certain distance.

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I'm aware of the upcoming new one, but still curious: in that situation or any similar military aviation situation where you were told to go for a certain distance (and doesn't have to be pin-point accurate), what is the most authentic way to "measure" the distance while in the cockpit. Creating a markpoint on-the-go, not sure if that's doable in Hornet, or even if it is doable, would it worth the time to do so...

 

Ravensino I flew as a crew member in the Air Force for 22 years. Now...I'm not saying it never happens, but > I < never heard a radio call telling us to "Fly heading X for X" and leaving it up to US to figure out where that was.

 

It WAS common during approaches to hear a call telling you how far you are AWAY from a particular fix or point...I.E. "Xtndr 11 You are 5 Miles from "HAMMS" You are Cleared ILS approach runway 15."

 

In this case the controller is clearing us the approach and letting us know we are 5 miles from the Final approach fix.

 

I have a friend at work who is a retired Indy Center Air Traffic Controller. I'll run this past him and see what he says.

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After Inbound call, carrier ATC will advise something like:

 

"...heading 111 for 12..."

 

 

 

Well, heading is easy to follow through, but what's the best way to figure out how far have I gone, am I there yet?

 

 

 

Do a quick math like Distance / Current Speed = Time, then try to count the seconds?

TACAN ?

Shagrat

 

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Divide your ground speed (gs, not indicated air speed) by 60 and you get the miles you cover in a minute. It's easier if you try to maintain a ground speed that is a multiple of 60, ie 360, 420, 480, etc

 

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Use TACAN, once you pass base or carrier, it will tell you how many miles you have gone past. Well dang, there you go! :joystick: :pilotfly:

 

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Ravensino I flew as a crew member in the Air Force for 22 years. Now...I'm not saying it never happens, but > I < never heard a radio call telling us to "Fly heading X for X" and leaving it up to US to figure out where that was.

 

 

......

 

 

 

I have a friend at work who is a retired Indy Center Air Traffic Controller. I'll run this past him and see what he says.

 

 

Thanks sir for the insight. Appreciate for any detail you can find out about.

 

That call I think is intended to help the jets to enter into the landing pattern, as the said location is always at the starboard side, miles away behind the carrier. Not sure if this very detail actually exists in RL though, especially with TACAN in place...

 

Another possible scenario, as I just imagine here, could it be CAS? Like an A-10 got an ad-hoc call (probably from AWACS or other controllers in this case) telling the pilot to go about 15 miles away on heading xxx for supporting an instant ground attack. Could such scenario actually exist?

 

 

 

 

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Divide your ground speed (gs, not indicated air speed) by 60 and you get the miles you cover in a minute. It's easier if you try to maintain a ground speed that is a multiple of 60, ie 360, 420, 480, etc

 

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That’s handy. Thanks for the tip.

 

 

 

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PG, NTTR

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Use TACAN, once you pass base or carrier, it will tell you how many miles you have gone past. Well dang, there you go! :joystick: :pilotfly:
It also tells the distance when approaching the carrier so when you fly the course and subtract the given distance to fly (12NM in the original post) from the distance TACAN shows (say it shows 15NM), you will end up near the initial point (about 3 NM) behind the carrier when TACAN shows about 3 to 4 NM for the straight in approach. No holding a specific speed, no complex math, just fly the course and count the numbers going down. :)

Shagrat

 

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It also tells the distance when approaching the carrier so when you fly the course and subtract the given distance to fly (12NM in the original post) from the distance TACAN shows (say it shows 15NM), you will end up near the initial point (about 3 NM) behind the carrier when TACAN shows about 3 to 4 NM for the straight in approach. No holding a specific speed, no complex math, just fly the course and count the numbers going down. :)

 

 

 

Problem is, you are most unlikely to pass by the carrier. Your initial location, the said location and TACAN/carrier are usually 3 points of a triangle, not a line.

 

 

 

 

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Problem is, you are most unlikely to pass by the carrier. Your initial location, the said location and TACAN/carrier are usually 3 points of a triangle, not a line.

 

 

 

 

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Thing is, the ATC/Carrier currently gives you the heading and distance to the approach at 3NM from the "runway threshold", IIRC. So the triangle will always be 3NM on the Carrier to approach leg. If you reach 3 to 4 NM distance from TACAN you should be near the initial for landing. In fact with the BRC dialed into the HSI you can start intercepting the course and catch up with the carrier... only issue is, the carrier steams away from the point he wants you to reach and you may end up in front of it when approaching the Carrier from the stern. This requires to consider the BRC. So if BRC is showing in the lower half of the HSI follow the course until you reach 3NM and see if distance decreases, if yes keep the heading until it increases to 3NM again and turn onto the BRC... and keep in mind, this isn't the real world procedure, but a way to make the current ATC work.

Real life you call the ships defense at 50NM, switch to Marshal and get a position in the stack, which depending on recovery procedure in place, can be above the carrier (Case 1, good visibility) or behind it (Case 3, bad visibility), only then you get marshalled down into the pattern, or during Case 3 descent from marshal to an instrument approach with TACAN and ICLS...

Shagrat

 

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Thing is, the ATC/Carrier currently gives you the heading and distance to the approach at 3NM from the "runway threshold", IIRC. So the triangle will always be 3NM on the Carrier to approach leg. If you reach 3 to 4 NM distance from TACAN you should be near the initial for landing. In fact with the BRC dialed into the HSI you can start intercepting the course and catch up with the carrier... only issue is, the carrier steams away from the point he wants you to reach and you may end up in front of it when approaching the Carrier from the stern. This requires to consider the BRC. So if BRC is showing in the lower half of the HSI follow the course until you reach 3NM and see if distance decreases, if yes keep the heading until it increases to 3NM again and turn onto the BRC... and keep in mind, this isn't the real world procedure, but a way to make the current ATC work.

Real life you call the ships defense at 50NM, switch to Marshal and get a position in the stack, which depending on recovery procedure in place, can be above the carrier (Case 1, good visibility) or behind it (Case 3, bad visibility), only then you get marshalled down into the pattern, or during Case 3 descent from marshal to an instrument approach with TACAN and ICLS...

 

Ah, make sense now. Didn't know it's a fixed location 3nm behind the boat.

Thanks mate.

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Ah, make sense now. Didn't know it's a fixed location 3nm behind the boat.

Thanks mate.

Yep, and it isn't even fixed to the boat, as currently ATC "thinks" he is on an airport and gives you heading/distance to a fixed point over the ocean, then steams away from it. So you would call the ATC for inbound earliest when less then 20NM away. Use navigation assistance for getting to the fleet, or just TACAN. :)

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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Rule of thumb...look at your current Mach number. The first digit is approximately how many miles you are covering in a minute. Mach .77 would be roughly 7 miles a minute. Works better at higher altitudes than down low but gives you a ballpark figure to work with. Best way is to have TACAN/DME set up ahead of time.

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