Air defenses in forests - unfair

[CajunRon]

In many of the built in missions (A10C specifically) I have to go against Z23s hidden in forests. Of course there is absolutely no way for me to target them even with labels. Now it would seems to me that a Z23 hidden in the trees like these are would not be able to see me either and could not get a lock and shoot at me. Have you ever tried to find an airplane flying overhead while standing in a stand of woods? Seems like an unfortunate and enormous departure from reality.

 

On my specific mission, my AI friends are totally ineffective as well (even to kill the Z23's out in the open. So the mission is impossible.

 

Any suggestions?

[Yurgon]

There's been a lot going on in DCS since the release of the A-10C.

 

The Caucasus map has been re-done more or less from scratch. While it does look massively more fantastic (my personal opinion, at least ;) ), it now features wooded areas where there was open space before.

 

Many of the missions that come with the module have already been adjusted or are in the process of being adjusted to the new map. But this is entirely manual work, and takes a lot of time and resources.

 

I don't know any schedule, but chances are that your problems will be resolved in time.

 

Of course it may help if you could tell us which mission, and which units, cause problems for you right now. ;)

[cailean_556]

In many of the built in missions (A10C specifically) I have to go against Z23s hidden in forests. Of course there is absolutely no way for me to target them even with labels. Now it would seems to me that a Z23 hidden in the trees like these are would not be able to see me either and could not get a lock and shoot at me. Have you ever tried to find an airplane flying overhead while standing in a stand of woods? Seems like an unfortunate and enormous departure from reality.

 

On my specific mission, my AI friends are totally ineffective as well (even to kill the Z23's out in the open. So the mission is impossible.

 

Any suggestions?

 

It is indeed possible to 'hide' radar-guided guns in forested areas. Realistically, after a few bursts, the 23mm rounds would have cut down the trees in the way to the point where the firing unit has basically made themselves a bespoke firing position. That aspect is not modelled in DCS.

 

Especially in the case of a self-propelled anti-aircraft gun platform like the ZSU-23-4, however a lot of work would need to be done for it to be effective as allowing it to hide in said trees as well as be able to engage aircraft.

 

You would need to 'keyhole' the firing position (felling trees to allow the radar to see through a particular area or in a particular arc), elevate the firing platform (which increases its chances of being detected) or have them hide close to clearings and drive out into said clearings to engage when aircraft were near (which requires Early Warning from a higher command).

 

Admittedly this approach works better when used with manually guided weapons, such as laser, visual or electro-optical. Radar clutter would complicate the issue considerably.

 

In regards to suggestions, if you have the TPOD equipped, perhaps carry some GBU-12s and drop them from a height above 10,000 feet provided you can designate the target's location.

 

Other than that, only option I can suggest is to wait until the missions have been tweaked or make your own.

[Wolve03]

I'd like to add that this affects all platforms because, as Yurgon mentioned, we now have trees where we had fields earlier. Try playing the Ka-50 Black Shark campaigns. Even if you fire missiles / rockets, they blow up at the tree level and unit underneath is safe. You could kill infantry with fragmentation warheads, but BMPs? no way...

Another AI behaviour which further exacerbates this situation, is them moving randomly (and sometimes into wooded areas) when their group is attacked. So, yeah, you would need to edit the missions, and move them further away from trees.

They won't be hidden though ... so, "Playability vs Realism"

[CajunRon]

Thanks for the info and explanation of the cause. At least it now makes sense as to why it is this way.

 

The specific mission is Defend Camp Yankee. I've modified the mission in the mission editor and moved all of the Z23s out of the trees. I put them close to the tree line so at least I will have to approach from a particular direction to get a clear shot. This helps immensely.

[Worrazen]

The updates to the missions may coincide with the cockpit update, would make sense.