F-14A of 70's Vs F-14A of 90's Vs F-14A Iranian

[Zeagle]

1978...I saw my very first F-14 in 1978 at NAS Meridian

[Top Jockey]

Iranian F-14A or the Classic. Upgraded is too close the one we have.

 

I agree.

It would be the classic, 'old-school' F-14A for me.

 

 

 

NAS Miramar AB

 

"AB" as in Air Base ?

Air Base is an Air Force installation.

 

Tipicaly it was denominated only as: Naval Air Station Miramar.

(Or, like in present days: Marine Corps Air Station Miramar.)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

This one over here. We have Iran on the Persian Gulf map, it would be criminal to not have its prime interceptor in game.

 

[Satarosa]

YES

 

This one over here. We have Iran on the Persian Gulf map, it would be criminal to not have its prime interceptor in game.

 

 

+1000

[Xtan]

So you would be satisfied with that? :pilotfly:

 

 

Would be pretty intresting to fight against Mig21 in a realistic scenario...

 

I LIKE THE COCKPIT. :wub:

[Uxi]

NASA Dryden Tomcat could be a fun variant.

[sublime]

I LIKE THE COCKPIT. :wub:

 

Ya i can dig it its similar but diff. The siff engine displays shud also make the b more noticable

[WolfHound009]

I'd like to see prototype F-14As in DCS but I doubt it'll happen

[Satarosa]

HB -> F-14A of 70's for When ??

[near_blind]

 

 

8 hours ago, Satarosa said:

HB -> F-14A of 70's for When ??

Two Weeks...

[Satarosa]

F-14A from the 70s ?

After many years of waiting, we have to admit the disappointment of not having obtained the F-14A of the 70s.
Yet, it was planned and promised..

 

Honestly, I'm sick of DCS "false promises" 

[captain_dalan]

1 hour ago, Satarosa said:

F-14A from the 70s ?

After many years of waiting, we have to admit the disappointment of not having obtained the F-14A of the 70s.
Yet, it was planned and promised..

 

Honestly, I'm sick of DCS "false promises" 

I don't recall HB ever promising a 70's version. If memory serves, their original plan called for a mid 80's A version and an early 90's B version. The Iranian "variant" was thrown in latter as a good will and was never part of the original deal. 

[draconus]

10 hours ago, Satarosa said:

Yet, it was planned and promised..

No, it wasn't. Have a link? I got one for you:

 

[Satarosa]

On 7/1/2022 at 9:21 AM, draconus said:

No, it wasn't. Have a link? I got one for you:

 

It was confirm for the F-14A from the 70s "135GR early" in 2018 by HB, and yes in this new post also..

 

Q: What versions of the -A will be simulated?
A: Similar as with the -B, each version of the -A spans a certain time period, but to discern them easier, we divide them into the 135GR late version (same time period as the -B), which has more or less feature parity with the -B, except for engines, engine instrument panels and some minor differences; the 135GR early version (late 70s to early/mid 90s), which also features an older version of the RWR (the ALR-45) and the ECM page on the HSD; and the bonus 95GR IRIAF version, which is similar to the 135GR early (late 70s/ early 80s), with the difference of having no TCS, no ICLS/ACLS, no datalink, no Lantirn pod, only older weapons (no aim-9m, no aim-7M(/H), no aim-7F, no aim54A mk.60 and aim54C) and only dumb air to ground munitions. Each version will include skins for their dedicated period/country. All -A versions feature the TF-30 Engines.

 

 

 

Do you copy ?

Edited July 12, 2022 by Satarosa

[captain_dalan]

1 hour ago, Satarosa said:

It was confirm for the F-14A from the 70s "135GR early" in 2018 by HB, and yes in this new post also..

 

Q: What versions of the -A will be simulated?
A: Similar as with the -B, each version of the -A spans a certain time period, but to discern them easier, we divide them into the 135GR late version (same time period as the -B), which has more or less feature parity with the -B, except for engines, engine instrument panels and some minor differences; the 135GR early version (late 70s to early/mid 90s), which also features an older version of the RWR (the ALR-45) and the ECM page on the HSD; and the bonus 95GR IRIAF version, which is similar to the 135GR early (late 70s/ early 80s), with the difference of having no TCS, no ICLS/ACLS, no datalink, no Lantirn pod, only older weapons (no aim-9m, no aim-7M(/H), no aim-7F, no aim54A mk.60 and aim54C) and only dumb air to ground munitions. Each version will include skins for their dedicated period/country. All -A versions feature the TF-30 Engines.

 

 

 

Do you copy ?

 

Block 135 started entering service in 1987.....

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/f14a/f14ab135.htm

[LanceCriminal86]

The 135GR is not a '70s jet at all, and in fact were the second to last batch of As built around 85. Visually and systems wise, you could stretch that back a bit further but even the end of 110GR you're still talking 1981 delivery. The 135GR tag was selected originally with an understanding that F-14As were upgraded over time, however what wasn't considered is that there were visual and system features that weren't added to earlier blocks. It was supposed to be representative of Tomcats from a certain timeframe, but some corrections have been pointed out for systems that shouldn't be on older jets.

That said, the oldest jet you will expect to see is a -95GR, period. Whether the US configuration is directly represented is up in the air, as currently you can't just split off a sub-version without having it be a separate "module" of sorts it seems. What MAY happen, is instead of an "Early" 135GR, the model is adjusted to be more "modular" to allow for different system configurations in the loadout screen. If that does happen, you can switch between a -95 and onward jet up through a -140 by adding or removing the ALQ-126 jammers. While the "boat tail" would probably be a fixed thing, that's one of the main differences between them. That and the TCS, which again if selectable would mean you can set up all the way from the 70s-90s, and then from the 90s-00s on the "late" jet.

But again, still up in the air. What definitely is NOT happening is a -75GR early jet, the original IRST, early beaver tails, glove vanes that actually change the flight model.

Edited July 12, 2022 by LanceCriminal86

[LanceCriminal86]

23 minutes ago, captain_dalan said:

Block 135 started entering service in 1987.....

http://www.topedge.com/alley/text/f14a/f14ab135.htm

That site has a lot of missing info, Mike Crutch's CVW 1975-2015 book has a lot more information but he also didn't directly include the RAG or Evaluation squadrons, so sometimes you will see FITWING or VF-101/124 mentioned but often times you won't if the jet started out with one of those squadrons. The other thing is sometimes these dates come from the first record that a jet was shown on an inventory or roster, or seen in a photo with a certain MODEX. Only the actual production and delivery dates from Grumman straight would be able to tell you better what dates a jet was completed and delivered. 

-130s were hitting VF-31 and VF-11 through '84/'85 and even through '87. Some jets went to the RAG or non-fleet squadrons first, which is why the first dates you see are so much later. Perfect example, VF-31 got 161850 in July 1986, VF-11 got 161851 in '87, but suddenly you have 161853 that got to VF-11 in May of 1984. And the last of the -130s went to VF-11 in April 1985, so the dates need a bit more context.

Similar story if you look at the -135s and -140s but it actually gets weirder. The first of the -135 went to VF-124 it looks like and didn't hit a fleet squadron until 1991, similar story for others of the block not seeing fleet squadrons until 1987? But then you look at the 140GRs, the last batch of As, and the first showed up at a fleet squadron in November 1986! Keep looking, and others were reaching fleet squadrons in Jun/July 1986, with the bulk of the production block through December 1986. Two more jets were delivered in January & February 1987.

Then, the last 4 As were delivered to VF-201 and VF-202 by March and April of 1987.

 

But wait, there's more!

 

Sandwiched in there, somewhere from 83-84 and through 1987 and 1988, the remaining jets from production blocks 60 and 65, originally making up the test squadrons at Patuxent River, VX-4, PMTC, and the first jets at VF-124 to train VF-1/2, were all shipped back to Grumman for a complete rebuild. Those jets were rebuilt to -135 standards including the upgraded jamming equipment with new boat tail and work done to the airframes to "zero them out" so to speak. There's not a lot of good info when the jets actually got sent to get rebuilt because many were just sitting around unused, mothballed at Davis-Monthan, or cannibalized.

So in-between the "actual" 135GRs being built, you also had a number being completely rebuilt I believe at St. Augustine or maybe even up at Calverton. All I know is that they were being ferried to VF-201 and VF-201 somewhere from '87-'88 or even '89. Bill Lindner shared a page of his logbook showing he delivered 162711 in April of 1987, and flew 158626 like a week later. VF-201 had enough of their jets by June 1987 to do a reserve exercise and carrier quals on Forrestal, while borrowing two of VF-202's jets. VF-202 didn't have enough jets by then apparently with theirs continuing to be delivered as they were rebuilt.

[IronMike]

Don't get too hung up on the block versions. We use them to distinguish between early and later As, but irl no Tomcat service member, maintainer, etc. ever uttered anything like "block xy"... They are an approximation to set a time period, within which, as always, most Tomcats were a patchwork and displayed or did not display certain features, which we take as an overall guideline if that makes sense.

No Tomcat "block-family" was ever that clean cut. We also name them in blocks, because the mission editor needs different names for different variants. In the end, they are always a cross section of its most common features for that time period of early or late A versions and the B.

The IRIAF - as a pure bonus - version will really be an early 135 minus a certain set of features, less payload options and Iranian skins. It is being called 95GR so that one can distinguish it.
 

[IronMike]

On 6/30/2022 at 9:56 PM, Satarosa said:

F-14A from the 70s ?

After many years of waiting, we have to admit the disappointment of not having obtained the F-14A of the 70s.
Yet, it was planned and promised..

 

Honestly, I'm sick of DCS "false promises" 

We never, ever, promised that. Not once. Not sure where you are getting this from. In fact, you are getting more than was initially promised.

You misunderstand a time period denominated vs "a Tomcat purely from the 70s". All the Tomcats we do are a cross section of a representative time period for earlier or later variants. Late 70s to early/mid 90s is a span of almost twenty years, there is nothing unclear about that.

[LanceCriminal86]

Perhaps a name change to "Mid-Life" and "Late" F-14A would be clearer then. We discussed before that there are absolutely some features that were not retrofitted to previous blocks of jets, and very few of those jets without those features survived long enough to become a "Late" jet as presented now with LANTIRN, ALR-67, and forthcoming ALQ-126 (visually missing but "modeled" I believe). To my knowledge, only a specific list of jets break that rule with one extra that got the same treatment, anything that didn't went to the RAG and boneyard by '96-'98.

If you take the existing A and roll the ALR-45 in, nix LANTIRN, and keep the ALQ-126 then you're still at an '81+ manufactured jet. It represents jets from "blocks" 110 at the end through 140 at the end of F-14A production. Throw on the old style vents and you have a representation for most Tomcats built from '81-'87 and as they stood until about 1992-1993 or so when gun vents were converted to the NACA duct style.

Edited July 13, 2022 by LanceCriminal86

[IronMike]

12 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

Perhaps a name change to "Mid-Life" and "Late" F-14A would be clearer then. We discussed before that there are absolutely some features that were not retrofitted to previous blocks of jets, and very few of those jets without those features survived long enough to become a "Late" jet as presented now with LANTIRN, ALR-67, and forthcoming ALQ-126 (visually missing but "modeled" I believe). To my knowledge, only a specific list of jets break that rule with one extra that got the same treatment, anything that didn't went to the RAG and boneyard by '96-'98.

If you take the existing A and roll the ALR-45 in, nix LANTIRN, and keep the ALQ-126 then you're still at an '81+ manufactured jet. It represents jets from "blocks" 110 at the end through 140 at the end of F-14A production. Throw on the old style vents and you have a representation for most Tomcats built from '81-'87 and as they stood until about 1992-1993 or so when gun vents were converted to the NACA duct style.

 

I personally was never a fan of the block naming, just wasn't a thing in the Tomcat community at all and imo sets up for wrong expectations. But we'll prolly still stick with it, and will just have to explain it every now and then again.

My choice would have been late A and early A. But the block naming is also a bit more in conjunction with how other modules do it in DCS, and really is primarily needed for places in lua and mission editor etc to distinguish the variants.

In the end both will always lead to the same explanations necessary on the occasion, so I guess it doesn't matter much.

[WolfHound009]

@IronMike My primary question regarding the early Tomcats is with the options presented will the -135 Early have the visual option to switch out the TCS Pod for just the ALQ-100 nub under the nose to recreate an 'early' look. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by WolfHound009

[IronMike]

3 hours ago, WolfHound009 said:

@IronMike My primary question regarding the early Tomcats is with the options presented will the -135 Early have the visual option to switch out the TCS Pod for just the ALQ-100 nub under the nose to recreate an 'early' look. 

 

We're thinking about it indeed, yes.

[LanceCriminal86]

If the TCS and ALQ-126 can both be converted to "pods" on both early/late A, it would be huge towards representing more eras.

[IronMike]

5 minutes ago, LanceCriminal86 said:

If the TCS and ALQ-126 can both be converted to "pods" on both early/late A, it would be huge towards representing more eras.

yep, plus adding aerodyn cover option.