madeiner Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) Hello, i wanted to do some test with the F18 and the drag different pylons impart on the plane. Test conditions: 5000 ft MSL, 20°C temp, full fuel, unlimited fuel, full afterburner Image shows: Loadout, IAS https://imgur.com/a/BzfbvHs Conclusions: 1 - Number of missiles is not important; it only matters if the "slot" is occupied or not. Dual or single missiles makes no drag difference. 2- Type of missiles is not important; aim9x, 120c, aim7, all have the same drag. It does not matter if it's dual or single racked. 3- Fuselage and wingtip pylons impart less drag than underwing pylons. (actually, they are almost 0-drag) 4- (not shown) Removing pylons makes no difference with respect to empty pylons. 5- When you fire off missiles in a double rack, you lose drag -- but those missiles did not cause drag when first mounted. So, by bringing more missiles and firing them off, you actually lose drag and gain speed. Edited May 7, 2019 by madeiner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Py Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Nice work! I assume that is just a placeholder drag model until later in beta, but it's useful to see how things work at the moment. Did you try any comparison with other weapons, eg amraam vs maverick? Or rocket pods? That would be interesting to see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenzino Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Thanks! It would be interesting as well to see the data of fuel tanks, especially the underbelly one. Always suspected how much would I be disadvantaged when carrying a bag into a dogfight... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk i9-9900K, G.Skill 3200 32GB RAM, AORUS Z390 Pro Wifi, Gigabyte Windforce RTX 2080 Ti, Samsung 960 Pro NVMe 512G + 860 Pro 1T, TM Warthog HOTAS, VKB T-Rudder, Samsung O+ F/A-18C, F-16C, A-10C, UH-1, AV-8B, F-14, JF-17, FC3, SA342 Gazelle, L-39, KA-50, CEII, Supercarrier Preordered. (Almost abandoned: CA - VR support please?) PG, NTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banzaiib Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) Nice work! I assume that is just a placeholder drag model until later in beta, but it's useful to see how things work at the moment. Did you try any comparison with other weapons, eg amraam vs maverick? Or rocket pods? That would be interesting to see! You assume? Well I assume that the slow down in development updates is a result of F-16 development... that doesn't make either of us right. I feel the plane fly differently when I fire a missile off a double rack. It yaws and rolls in the opposite direction. Could you also perform this test with double racked MK-83's? Edited May 7, 2019 by Banzaiib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 That's unexpected. Not sure how realistic it is? How about bombs? Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazex Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Thanks! It would be interesting as well to see the data of fuel tanks, especially the underbelly one. Always suspected how much would I be disadvantaged when carrying a bag into a dogfight... Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI heard from an old Draken pilot that the J 35 Draken was actually faster with external fuel tanks. Unexpected aerodynamic effect but therefore they almost always hade them on... Ryzen 7800X3D | Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX MB | 32GB 6000Mhz DDR5 | RTX 3080 GPU | Sound BlasterX AE-5 | Windows 11 Pro x64 | Virpil T-50 Throttle | T50 CM2 Grip + WarBRD | VKB T-rudder MK IV | Asus PG279Q 1440p | Valve Index VR | Samsung 980 Pro as system disk and DCS on separate Intel 665P NVME SSD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nooch Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I'm not sure about the validity of this study. I once had 4*Zunis + 3*fuel tanks + 2*AIM-7 + 2*AIM-9 and it made it a lot slower than 4*Mk-82 + 3*fuel tanks + 2*AIM-120 + 2*AIM-9. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madeiner Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 I'm not sure about the validity of this study. I once had 4*Zunis + 3*fuel tanks + 2*AIM-7 + 2*AIM-9 and it made it a lot slower than 4*Mk-82 + 3*fuel tanks + 2*AIM-120 + 2*AIM-9. This study was not meant to test AG weapons. The zunis in particular are known to have high drag. However, you can rest assured that the Aim7-9-120 all have the same drag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilnate Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Nice experiment! Did you log IAS after a specific amount of time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preendog Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 (edited) Cool results, here's some more. 5,000 ASL, 20 degrees C, 29.92 in/hg, unlimited fuel, full afterburner. Speed recorded after it stabilizes in high time compression. Fuel Clean: 735 Center tank: 692 3 tanks: 628 The results are the same if the tanks are full or empty. A/G (Inboard pylons) 2 MK82s: 723 4 MK82s (doubles): 717 2 MK82s (doubles with one dropped): 735 (same as clean!) 2 MK83s: 718 4 MK83s (doubles): 713 2 MK83s (doubles with one dropped): 735 (same as clean!) 0 MK83s (two empty racks): 771 (faster than clean?) 0 MK83s (four empty racks): 806 (lol) 0 Mk83s (jettisoned double racks): 735 8 MK83 and 2 center MK82s: 685 4 MK83 and 1 MK82 (one bomb dropped from each point): 735 (same as clean, and my new favorite loadout :P) 2 Mavs: 679 2 HARMs: 677 2 Zuni: 588 4 Zuni (2 doubles): 571 A/A (Inboard pylons) 4 AMRAAMs (double racks): 635 2 AMRAAMs (double racks): 660 0 AMRAAMs (double racks): 692 Jettison Double racks: 735 2 AMRAAMs (single racks): 635 Summary Fuel tank drag is a little bit less than a bomb of the same size. AGMs are significantly more draggy than bombs. I guess this is because of the fins. AAMs are even more draggy than AGMs. I guess that's because they are carried with a downward tilt (when on pylons). Confirm that 2 AMRAAMs on a double rack have the same drag as 1 on a single rack. Confirm that shooting an AMRAAM off a double rack reduces drag partially. If you take MK82s or 83s on double racks, dropping one bomb from the rack will cancel the drag of the remaining bomb. This is basically the same as the double/single AMRAAM behavior, but more pronounced. The AMRAAM double-rack itself has a lot of drag. Two of them are as much as a fuel tank. You should jettison these when empty. Bomb double racks have negative drag (when empty). So, never jettison these, drop the bombs off instead. Rockets are the drag king in this lineup, and probably the highest drag object you can carry. Everything seems reasonable (or at least debatable) except for the weird behavior of multiple weapons on the same hardpoint, bomb double racks having negative drag, and the fact that pylons have no drag. Most of these were discussed in another thread some time ago, and I wonder if any will be addressed. Best speed achieved with exploits: M 1.91 at 33,000 feet. Edited May 10, 2019 by Preendog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskyV Posted May 11, 2019 Share Posted May 11, 2019 So you are actually slower with air to air loadouts than you are carrying bombs...hmmm lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmed Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 It appears that the flight model deifnitely is in need of some work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel_108 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 but good to know ED is on top of this. cheers. Are they though? It hasn’t been acknowledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Maybe this is the result that will not get solved until all A-A missiles and A-G ordanse is gone through the advanced flight modeling? i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Great information and thank you for doing this. This has me really questioning the entire FM. Why this isn't a top priority is a mystery. The FM should be #1 above all else. i5 7600K @4.8GHz | 1080 Ti | 32GB 3200MHz | SSD | DCS SETTINGS | "COCKPIT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preendog Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Less important, but the canopy and gear doors don't affect drag either. So if you can handle the noise, lose the canopy right away to get a better view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxxyTrotty Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Preendog - thanks, I appreciate your work. Now I understand why after dropping off bombs, i'm best keep the racks... I sometimes felt as if I began to slow down a bit after dumping my racks... I just assumed I must have been paying attention to something else or moved the throttles subconsciously. Nope, turns out dumping the racks, would allow me to get out of harms way quicker / rtb with more fuel efficiency etc is backwards!! PS - this weird kinda bug also exists when flying inverted with asynchronous loadouts (eg if u drop 1 bomb from left wing, but still have it on the right wing, the extra weight/drag pulls down ur right wing, but fly inverted.. it still keeps pulling the same way) . . . . . . . Every module/ map except the dual winged joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinK Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 The FM should be #1 above all else. agreed. "Landing on the ship during the daytime is like sex, it's either good or it's great. Landing on the ship at night is like a trip to the dentist, you may get away with no pain, but you just don't feel comfortable" — LCDR Thomas Quinn, USN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krippz Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 +1 Hope this gets addressed. FM should be the most paramount thing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDsc0rch Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 also note ----- drag of stores (ordnance and tanks) at subsonic and supersonic speeds will be important to watch... i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregfp66 Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Does the problem still exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikaj Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Saw a post earlier this month debating this and the problem is still here. Hopefully it will get fixed with 2.7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Watson Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 IMO, this should be addressed before anything else outstanding for the F18! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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