Index vs Reverb

[Baldrick33]

After some weeks with both devices here is my (rather lengthy) conclusion on the Index vs Reverb:

 

I have bought & sold a few VR headsets in my quest for the best VR experience. The list so far:

 

DK2, CV1, Pimax 4K, Odyssey+, Pimax 5K and my current Reverb & Index.

 

My plan was to return or sell whichever lost the head to head battle. My conclusion so far is rather unexpectedly that I want to keep both. Not really an ideal conclusion to a battle nor financially and most definitely not a viable recommendation!

 

imacken summed it pretty nicely a few posts above:

 

Index

- build quality

- comfort

- audio quality

- dynamic range and contrast of image quality

- no WMR!

- FOV

- larger sweet spot

- adjustable IPD

 

Reverb

- image clarity due to higher res

 

Which would seem conclusive but it isn’t!

 

The Index feels very well built and oozes quality and makes the Reverb feel a bit cheap in comparison. That said it is about twice the weight yet is so well distributed it feels a tad more comfortable. That isn’t to say the Reverb is uncomfortable just the Index edges it.

 

I normally use speakers but the Index audio is good enough I would use it instead. The Reverb is ok, just not as good.

 

The colours are better on the Index but with some fiddling with in game gamma the Reverb looks ok. Good enough given the clarity boost I will come on to.

 

I don’t have an issue with WMR, it doesn’t get in the way of launching games and works well enough. However, it does add another layer of complexity to deal with and something else to get updates and not work as well! The controllers and tracking of controllers is frankly rubbish so if you plane to do some room space games with controllers the Index is a no brainer.

 

The FOV is noticeably bigger with the Index. Once in action in the Reverb I don’t specifically notice it but definitely a plus for the Index.

 

The difference in sweet spot is very noticeable in flight sims. Look at a gauge in the Reverb and the clarity is stunning. Move so the gauge is out of centre and it noticeably blurs. Do the same in the Index and gauge clarity is less impressive. Move you head and the change is far less noticeable. For me it isn’t a big deal as I tend to move my head but if you are looking through the gunsight and move your eyes to sweep gauges the Index gives a more consistent view.

 

My IPD is 65 which seems well in range for the Reverb. This could be an issue if you have a much higher or lower IPD. The Index has adjustable eye relief, so I would guess you could wear glasses with it, the Reverb would seem unlikely.

 

The Reverb clarity is amazing. In fact if I had to describe the key thing I would want from VR in the next generation from the CV1 it would be better visuals. FOV, audio, sweet spots are all nice to haves. Text is incredibly clear. Just loading up the Mixed Reality Portal is jaw dropping compared to my previous WMR device (Odyssey+)

 

Yes there is some mura if I look hard enough with solid colour background but in use in a flight or racing sim I simply don’t notice it. Because of its clarity I don’t need to over sample by any degree, it is that good. So I don’t need the monster PC the resolution figures might suggest. In comparison I need to push the SS up with the Index to try to get close to clarity of the Reverb such that in spite of all those extra pixels to drive the Reverb and Index are pretty much identical performance wise.

 

So in spite of having only one winning feature, it is the one feature that for me could be enough to win overall.

 

However, it depends...

 

I touched on the fact that you might want to use the headset for other things in which case the Index controllers and base stations are a clear (though costly) winner.

 

If, like me, you only want it for seated flight and race sims the Reverb tracking is fine yet it still depends on the games you play which is best from my experience.

 

For iRacing, which has a very sharp and crisp graphics engine, the Reverb just looks incredible. Jumping to the Index and despite the slightly larger FOV, the lack of resolution really shows up along with clear SDE. If I want to take advantage of the higher refresh in the Index I then have to drop down the graphics levels which just make it look even more inferior.

 

In contrast after some tweaking DCS just looks a little better in the Index. Pushing the SS up to 204% as per imacken’s suggestion (thanks) and the clarity of instruments is quite similar while maintaining a solid 45fps and the extra FOV just seems a more natural fit for the cockpit in the Index. Colour wise sightseeing just looks a tiny bit nicer. It isn’t as clear cut as iRacing though; I would take the Index at a pinch.

 

For IL2 I am even more on the fence. Putting on the Reverb and looking at the gauges is certainly clearer, with the caveat that as you move your head they blur a little. SDE is more apparent with the Index and the IL2 engine than DCS but only a little. The FOV is a bit nicer with the Index, maybe the colours a tiny bit more vivid but lowering the gamma helps the Reverb here. I put the Index on and it seems fine, put the Reverb on and it seems fine too!

 

I am still tweaking, there are a lot of variables and both devices are new and receiving various updates to SteamVR, WMR and firmware updates. Plus the developers are only just getting devices themselves to test. iRacing has a number of reports of users suffering with eye strain and nausea using the Index for example.

 

HP’s launch of the Reverb has been littered with QA issues. It seems new supplies of units with the original issues addressed should be hitting the supply channels now but it remains to be seen if the issues with cable connection, overheating and flickering have been resolved.

 

The Index too has had some issues with units having vertical lines although less prevalent.

 

The only upside is the reports of customer service dealing with the issues seem positive with both HP & Valve.

 

With the caveat of the v1.0 issues being fixed my final conclusion is that I highly rate both headsets. There are use cases which favour the Index (e.g. room space, IPD, glasses). The Reverb is rather bare bones but has image clarity that is for now class leading, while the Index is a more polished all-rounder. Both are great for DCS and a significant upgrade from a CV1 or Vive and visually a level above a Pimax 5K+ or Odyssey+ in my experience.

[Baldrick33]

After some more time actually playing the games rather than switching between devices I am still rather blown away by the clarity of the Reverb, especially flying something like the F86-F, where the cockpit is just that more impressive in it than something with MFDs in my experience.

 

It doesn't change my conclusion, the Index is the best all rounder and a great choice for DCS in my view, whilst the Reverb pips it for visual clarity alone and whether that is enough is going to be personal choice.

[Harlikwin]

After some weeks with both devices here is my (rather lengthy) conclusion on the Index vs Reverb:

 

I have bought & sold a few VR headsets in my quest for the best VR experience. The list so far:

 

DK2, CV1, Pimax 4K, Odyssey+, Pimax 5K and my current Reverb & Index.

 

My plan was to return or sell whichever lost the head to head battle. My conclusion so far is rather unexpectedly that I want to keep both. Not really an ideal conclusion to a battle nor financially and most definitely not a viable recommendation!

 

imacken summed it pretty nicely a few posts above:

 

Index

- build quality

- comfort

- audio quality

- dynamic range and contrast of image quality

- no WMR!

- FOV

- larger sweet spot

- adjustable IPD

 

Reverb

- image clarity due to higher res

 

Which would seem conclusive but it isn’t!

 

The Index feels very well built and oozes quality and makes the Reverb feel a bit cheap in comparison. That said it is about twice the weight yet is so well distributed it feels a tad more comfortable. That isn’t to say the Reverb is uncomfortable just the Index edges it.

 

I normally use speakers but the Index audio is good enough I would use it instead. The Reverb is ok, just not as good.

 

The colours are better on the Index but with some fiddling with in game gamma the Reverb looks ok. Good enough given the clarity boost I will come on to.

 

I don’t have an issue with WMR, it doesn’t get in the way of launching games and works well enough. However, it does add another layer of complexity to deal with and something else to get updates and not work as well! The controllers and tracking of controllers is frankly rubbish so if you plane to do some room space games with controllers the Index is a no brainer.

 

The FOV is noticeably bigger with the Index. Once in action in the Reverb I don’t specifically notice it but definitely a plus for the Index.

 

The difference in sweet spot is very noticeable in flight sims. Look at a gauge in the Reverb and the clarity is stunning. Move so the gauge is out of centre and it noticeably blurs. Do the same in the Index and gauge clarity is less impressive. Move you head and the change is far less noticeable. For me it isn’t a big deal as I tend to move my head but if you are looking through the gunsight and move your eyes to sweep gauges the Index gives a more consistent view.

 

My IPD is 65 which seems well in range for the Reverb. This could be an issue if you have a much higher or lower IPD. The Index has adjustable eye relief, so I would guess you could wear glasses with it, the Reverb would seem unlikely.

 

The Reverb clarity is amazing. In fact if I had to describe the key thing I would want from VR in the next generation from the CV1 it would be better visuals. FOV, audio, sweet spots are all nice to haves. Text is incredibly clear. Just loading up the Mixed Reality Portal is jaw dropping compared to my previous WMR device (Odyssey+)

 

Yes there is some mura if I look hard enough with solid colour background but in use in a flight or racing sim I simply don’t notice it. Because of its clarity I don’t need to over sample by any degree, it is that good. So I don’t need the monster PC the resolution figures might suggest. In comparison I need to push the SS up with the Index to try to get close to clarity of the Reverb such that in spite of all those extra pixels to drive the Reverb and Index are pretty much identical performance wise.

 

So in spite of having only one winning feature, it is the one feature that for me could be enough to win overall.

 

However, it depends...

 

I touched on the fact that you might want to use the headset for other things in which case the Index controllers and base stations are a clear (though costly) winner.

 

If, like me, you only want it for seated flight and race sims the Reverb tracking is fine yet it still depends on the games you play which is best from my experience.

 

For iRacing, which has a very sharp and crisp graphics engine, the Reverb just looks incredible. Jumping to the Index and despite the slightly larger FOV, the lack of resolution really shows up along with clear SDE. If I want to take advantage of the higher refresh in the Index I then have to drop down the graphics levels which just make it look even more inferior.

 

In contrast after some tweaking DCS just looks a little better in the Index. Pushing the SS up to 204% as per imacken’s suggestion (thanks) and the clarity of instruments is quite similar while maintaining a solid 45fps and the extra FOV just seems a more natural fit for the cockpit in the Index. Colour wise sightseeing just looks a tiny bit nicer. It isn’t as clear cut as iRacing though; I would take the Index at a pinch.

 

For IL2 I am even more on the fence. Putting on the Reverb and looking at the gauges is certainly clearer, with the caveat that as you move your head they blur a little. SDE is more apparent with the Index and the IL2 engine than DCS but only a little. The FOV is a bit nicer with the Index, maybe the colours a tiny bit more vivid but lowering the gamma helps the Reverb here. I put the Index on and it seems fine, put the Reverb on and it seems fine too!

 

I am still tweaking, there are a lot of variables and both devices are new and receiving various updates to SteamVR, WMR and firmware updates. Plus the developers are only just getting devices themselves to test. iRacing has a number of reports of users suffering with eye strain and nausea using the Index for example.

 

HP’s launch of the Reverb has been littered with QA issues. It seems new supplies of units with the original issues addressed should be hitting the supply channels now but it remains to be seen if the issues with cable connection, overheating and flickering have been resolved.

 

The Index too has had some issues with units having vertical lines although less prevalent.

 

The only upside is the reports of customer service dealing with the issues seem positive with both HP & Valve.

 

With the caveat of the v1.0 issues being fixed my final conclusion is that I highly rate both headsets. There are use cases which favour the Index (e.g. room space, IPD, glasses). The Reverb is rather bare bones but has image clarity that is for now class leading, while the Index is a more polished all-rounder. Both are great for DCS and a significant upgrade from a CV1 or Vive and visually a level above a Pimax 5K+ or Odyssey+ in my experience.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive and cunning review ;)

[oboe]

Still following these reviews with interest. Impressed with Baldrick's in-depth comparison, thank you!

 

Would it be fair to add total cost as another advantage for the Reverb? I.e., you don't already have base stations for tracking, they will add $300 to the total cost of the Index, bringing it to $800 (through the Steam store) vs $600 for the Reverb...

[Baldrick33]

Would it be fair to add total cost as another advantage for the Reverb? I.e., you don't already have base stations for tracking, they will add $300 to the total cost of the Index, bringing it to $800 (through the Steam store) vs $600 for the Reverb...

I paid slightly less for the Index and one base station (direct from HTC) compared to the Reverb. Hardly anything in it. So for purely seated VR gaming they are pretty much the same.

 

Of course you do get a pair of controllers with the Reverb but I doubt they will get any use!

[oboe]

I paid slightly less for the Index and one base station (direct from HTC) compared to the Reverb. Hardly anything in it. So for purely seated VR gaming they are pretty much the same.

 

Of course you do get a pair of controllers with the Reverb but I doubt they will get any use!

 

Ah, I see. Thanks! I thought 2 base stations were needed for tracking? I don't do anything in VR except DCS, so no need to move around the room...

[Baldrick33]

Ah, I see. Thanks! I thought 2 base stations were needed for tracking? I don't do anything in VR except DCS, so no need to move around the room...

One base station seems fine for seated sims. I can pretty much look all around, though in my fifties my idea of checking six maybe four and a half in reality :)

[Wicked.-]

Ah, I see. Thanks! I thought 2 base stations were needed for tracking? I don't do anything in VR except DCS, so no need to move around the room...

 

 

I ended up having to get a second one as it would lose tracking when checking six. The sensors are on the front of the headset and once it can't be seen it loses tracking.

[Beamscanner]

I'm only interested in a high res VR for DCS (nothing else).

 

I've seen some say that the Index has similar clarity with an increase in SS. Can anyone besides those two individuals confirm this?

 

Also, are the F/A-18 DDIs readable in the Index?

[Supmua]

I'm only interested in a high res VR for DCS (nothing else).

 

I've seen some say that the Index has similar clarity with an increase in SS. Can anyone besides those two individuals confirm this?

 

Also, are the F/A-18 DDIs readable in the Index?

 

I don't have the Reverb but I don't think the Index will achieve the same clarity (one shouldn't expect a 1080p monitor running 2x supersampling to have the same clarity as a 4k monitor in its native resolution).

 

However, the clarity in the Index is nearly edge to edge meaning the area that is in focus is wider than other headsets due to dual lens implementation (at the cost of increased peripheral glare). For example, keeping your head straight and glance to the side and you should still be able to read texts in cockpits since most of it will still be in focus. This is actually the number one factor why I keep coming back to the Index.

 

The Hornet's DDI in the Index is very readable, except the center MFCD where you have to lean in a bit to read the green text superimposed on colored moving map due to shimmering (but I also have to lean in with TrackIR with my 2D monitor unless I'm running 4K on a big screen TV).

Edited September 1, 2019 by Supmua

[Harlikwin]

I'm only interested in a high res VR for DCS (nothing else).

 

I've seen some say that the Index has similar clarity with an increase in SS. Can anyone besides those two individuals confirm this?

 

Also, are the F/A-18 DDIs readable in the Index?

 

I don’t have index. But most people agree the reverb is clearer once you set it up right. It has significantly more real pixels so it makes sense. But as Spuma pointed out the index lens design gives you a more consistent image. The reverb center is super clear but gets blurrier as you move out to the edges (this happens on all headsets due to lenses used aside from the index). The reports that they are the same or not a big difference came from folks that weren’t using the right windows updates or had something misconfigured.

[oboe]

One base station seems fine for seated sims. I can pretty much look all around, though in my fifties my idea of checking six maybe four and a half in reality :)

 

LOL. Right there with ya, Chief.

[Badger633]

What's the latest on the various reverb issues? Are they sorted or are they still there? Also note the index has vertical lines issue reported has this been sorted yet.

Having seen the various thoughts just thinking of which is the most reliable, I mean out of the box.

I think you have 14 days and can then send the index back if you don't like it. Not sure if that facility is available to the reverb also.

Also , any thoughts on which is the most efficient? What I mean by that with the same rig and he same qualitive settings in DCS which runs the smoothest?

Thanks for any thoughts. Just dancing deciding which way to jump at the moment. Luckily money is not the driver.

 

I9900k 5ghz / Gygabyte waterforce extreme 2080ti /32Gb Ram Corsair 3600 /1tb m.2 drive Samsung / win10

[Wicked.-]

I have the Index and after making some cockpit camera adjustments/up, down, left, right positioning in the jet and getting a good IPD number in DCS VR settings (58) I can see the MPCD and read the CAS and ground speed numbers at a glance. I can also read the top row of numbers as well; clearly. The DDI's are crystal clear as well. That said I'm pretty sure that in the Reverb sweet spot it's probably clearer and takes less power to run as it doesn't need the SS scaling having a higher overall resolution. Still, I'm happy with the Index and should be for quite some time.

[Wolf8312]

I ended up having to get a second one as it would lose tracking when checking six. The sensors are on the front of the headset and once it can't be seen it loses tracking.

 

 

Did you have it mounted on the wall above you? I only use one for seated games and can honestly say I've never needed the second.

[Wicked.-]

Did you have it mounted on the wall above you? I only use one for seated games and can honestly say I've never needed the second.

 

It was mounted on a stand behind and above my computer screen. Even with two, the way my rig is set up makes me keep them in a narrow angle and I still have problems if I turn around an lean out a bit. Honeslty my Oculus sensors are better at keeping track in the same area. It's the only part of the Index I'm not really impressed with; especially considering the cost.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Wicked.-

[sk000tch]

I have the Index and after making some cockpit camera adjustments/up, down, left, right positioning in the jet and getting a good IPD number in DCS VR settings (58) I can see the MPCD and read the CAS and ground speed numbers at a glance. I can also read the top row of numbers as well; clearly. The DDI's are crystal clear as well. That said I'm pretty sure that in the Reverb sweet spot it's probably clearer and takes less power to run as it doesn't need the SS scaling having a higher overall resolution. Still, I'm happy with the Index and should be for quite some time.

 

This for me as well, this is the ‘critical clarity level,’ so to speak, for me where increased center screen resolution becomes less important relative to other factors (uniformity and FOV). I had a reverb here for about 5-days to compare side by side with index. The reverb is better in the center, for sure. However, index FOV is very noticeably better (vertically as well), and that clarity you describes extends nearly to the edge.

 

That’s huge for me. It makes spotting better, it allows me to keep my head up outside the cockpit, and just glance down with my eyes to read a gauge. It’s not quite RL, where instrument rotations can be very fast, but it’s getting closer... and certainly the closest of the HMDs.

 

IMHO of course

[Harlikwin]

This for me as well, this is the ‘critical clarity level,’ so to speak, for me where increased center screen resolution becomes less important relative to other factors (uniformity and FOV). I had a reverb here for about 5-days to compare side by side with index. The reverb is better in the center, for sure. However, index FOV is very noticeably better (vertically as well), and that clarity you describes extends nearly to the edge.

 

That’s huge for me. It makes spotting better, it allows me to keep my head up outside the cockpit, and just glance down with my eyes to read a gauge. It’s not quite RL, where instrument rotations can be very fast, but it’s getting closer... and certainly the closest of the HMDs.

 

IMHO of course

 

Yup, the Reverb is the first true Gen2 headset in terms of resolution, at least in the center. I think we will have to wait for at least a year or two before Gen2.5 headsets give us both that sort of resolution, plus things like better sweet spots and FOV's. The main issue with FOV is that your PPD goes down, so for now its one or the other. I'm hoping that one of the manufacturers can find a happy balance of this in the next few years, i.e. a modest increase in FOV while maintaining the PPD at a high level, with a better sweet spot. Then I want them to get RGB OLED displays to get some color back.