unrealistic wishes everywhere

[JumpinK]

Hey fellow pilots!

 

maybe it's just a personal feeling, but to me it seems that in almost every forum section regardless of the module, there are countless wishes for easy options.

"can you please make an easy option for this", "please make an easy option for that"

Do those wishers even know that DCS is meant to be a simulator?

As the title says Digital Combat SIMULATOR.

For me a simulator should aim to be as close to reality as it can anyhow get and easy options should not be there at all.

What is the purpose of a simulation, when every difficult thing it should simulate can be deactivated or cheated through an easy option?!

It just makes no sense for me.

Is the flood of arcade gamers actually spilling over on the lands of hardcore simmers eventually degrading our beloved simulator to an acecombat-like game for casual gamers by their countless wishes for easy options?!

 

(only some written thougts and of course you don't have to comment unless you really have to):smilewink:

[Exorcet]

What is the purpose of a simulation, when every difficult thing it should simulate can be deactivated or cheated through an easy option?!

To turn off the easy options as you wish.

 

 

DCS has game flight/avionics mode, takeoff assist, labels, and more. I turn them off because they're not realistic. These things don't make DCS less of a sim, so there isn't much reason to be concerned with them in my mind.

[Harlikwin]

I just want me a tic-tac UFO, is that too much to ask for? :megalol:

 

Actually I want better ME options/IADS/strike objectives (hey bridges!) an autogenerated FEBA in the ME, stuff like that. Oh and I want it on MP servers...

 

With regards to the "Easy" modes, when I started they were fairly helpful to learn some stuff while not worrying about other stuff. So I don't really care if they are in there or not just as long as they can be turned off.

 

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Edited May 13, 2019 by Harlikwin

[Bimbac]

My thoughts exactly, Sir! People just don't realize what it takes to fly and fight in a high-performance jet fighter, and that just a small percentage of the healthy population can do it.

 

Pilot training takes years! That's just the way it is. Personally, having some real-world experience, I would prefer the DCS to be even little harder :D

 

Sent via mobile phone using Tapatalk

[JumpinK]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

:D

Edited May 13, 2019 by JumpinK

[sea2sky]

It is a big topic. I'm for realism, but I also want ED to sustain and get bigger. The "easy mode" is a way to lower the entry bar for the new users therefore helping ED to make more profit.

[chaser]

casual flyers will give up if a task is to difficult

[JumpinK]

casual flyers will give up if a task is to difficult

 

yes. they give up trying. instead they start wishing for easy options.

[boedha68]

Don’t forget MAC is coming for the people to keep it simpel. :D

[SmirkingGerbil]

Well, it is called a "Wishlist". While I am all about hardcore mode, and have never invoked the "arcade" or game mode of this sim - DCS does need a path to invite new players, and let them ramp up without having to deal with all the complexities of sim level combat . . . much less punching in coordinates in a CDU and trying to remember rules about Easting values depending on your location to the Prime Meridian.

[JumpinK]

Don’t forget MAC is coming for the people to keep it simpel. :D

 

MAC = Mainly Arcade Combat?! :D

[Harlikwin]

Well, given the lack of decent flight planning/coordination tools for some planes that desperately need them (hi Viggen). There are some things I do wish for a bit of an easy mode. How about adding QFE to the mission editor at a given point.

[Baco]

MAC - Modern Aircrat Counterstrike ;)

[Nooch]

I agree 100% with the OP.

[Weta43]

& I disagree 100%

 

These threads pop up from time to time... It seems to me a few people could try thinking beyond their own personal position, and about the lives other people live.

 

I'm using this quote because it's right here, but the same points have been made many times by many people, so when I say 'You' I mean people holding this position generally, not JumpinK exclusively...

 

For me a simulator should aim to be as close to reality as it can anyhow get and easy options should not be there at all.

What is the purpose of a simulation, when every difficult thing it should simulate can be deactivated or cheated through an easy option?!

 

How about this:

 

Entertainment & relaxation.

 

Some people don't want to pretend that they're fighter pilots, they just want to experience what it would be like to control an aircraft in flight.

 

Over the years I've read posts from a member on these forums that's been posting for more than a decade, and at least until recently they'd never flown online (& the reality is that as loud as the MP community is, they are a small portion of the actual player-base & are vastly outnumbered by SP players) or used the SIM for combat. they just flew FC3 aircraft in free flight (& I get the impression often air start) - yet they get enough enjoyment from that to stay with DCS for the long haul.

 

Now by your reasoning, they, and those SP players like them should either abandon DCS completely, or stick to the Yak & leave anything with complicated systems (So any jet fighter) to those with the time to learn them. Yes ? PFM + SSM = an insult to 'hard core simmers' ?

 

That's fine if you're single & childless, but if your free time after working 60 hours a week and looking after the kids is snatching an hour a week if you're lucky ?

 

There's no way you're going to have time to master and stay current on the systems & skills needed to 'fly' the hornet module effectively - & you're saying that person isn't showing enough commitment for them to be worthy of flying DCS ?

 

DCS: Working class single parents need not apply :) ?

 

Nor should well coordinated people with dyslexia ?

 

Or people with physical disabilities who despite being quite capable of learning and mastering all the systems & engine management of the P-51 in flight and combat, will never be able to take off and land a tail-dragger without rudder assist on or top up the F/A-18C from a tanker ?

 

& honestly - if there really is no other reason for people using assist beyond just not being motivated enough to spend a couple of days/weeks/months getting proficient with the systems before they blow sh*t up, what I really don't understand is - if they're doing it in single player, or an MP server that you're not invited to, how is it any skin off your nose at all?

 

You have no way of actually knowing it's even happening, it just offends you that it's happening in your imagination.

 

Your argument essentially boils down to "I want to be able to say I'm part of a small group that have been able to devote the time to mastering these systems, and if some people can use the systems in easy mode, people might think I do too & not recognise the effort I've put in. DCS will become a game for the masses !"

 

If it were to become a game of the masses - with scalable difficulty all the way from full simulation to casual gaming, the most probable outcome - which doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me - is that E.D. will stay in business & develop new modules & maps, and attract new developers.

 

& that's a problem because ???

[Waxer]

This is an interesting discussion. My 2 cents:

 

I am new to DCS. And I have very little real stick time in civilian putt-putt planes let alone anything with a jet engine and teeth. Yet I am draw to DCS because it is challenging and much more realist than a pure computer game.

 

If easy modes are available as a user selectable option, and are switch on / off-able then I don't see a problem with it. It can make the beautiful flight sim more accessible to people that are learning DCS. And it can enable hardcore SIM enthusiasts with some kind of disability the ability to enjoy their life online without being bound by their real life challenges. Awesome.

 

But I agree that DCS having its heart and soul directed towards immersive and realistic simulation is what makes the simulator interesting for so many people. I really don't think I would be interested if it were just a pew-pew zoom around game with pretty graphics. I've got Flaming Cliffs and hardly spend any time on it. Instead my time is going into the F-5E, which following advice on this forum seems to be a good place to learn the ropes with realistic simulator settings. And I am enjoying it. With the proviso that spotting mechanics on differing monitors needs a rethink. See here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=240993

 

Honestly, right now I think the developers have gotten the balance really correct and that they deserve credit for doing so.

[Fri13]

DCS is a flight simulator designed for combat aviation. That means, you can have a unarmed mediheli flying in a combat zone. You can have a passenger jet flying in a combat country, you still need lift cargo and personnel, why you have own protected areas etc.

 

We have large areas where we can have civilian aviation going. Point is, while C stands for Combat, it doesn't mean that we should only have armed military aircrafts designed for blowing stuff up.

 

The another thing in simulation is, there are simulators and there are simulators. You have study simulators and you have simulators. And none of that means that one software product like DCS, needs to be full hard core from the start. Meaning that someone going to fly, they need to first learn all the basics from navigation, aviation and then procedures for landing, taking off etc and finally start learning how to cold start an aircraft. NO!

 

The idea is that you can do that, but it is not required. Baby steps.... Baby steps...

 

There are more people interested for simulators, who has just 30-45 min of their own time in one day a week. You need to get them to enjoy from the flying. Get them quickly in the air and have fun.

 

That means, the DCS requires it has a "Game Mode" and it has "Sim mode". And you should be able to bring some of the "Game Mode" functions over to Sim side, like "Easy Radio" or some simplified controls like "Auto Start" or "Labels".

 

But it as well means that DCS needs something developed to get "Full Hard Core". Meaning, if you are shot down in the multiplayer server and you can't eject? You are dead in that server. Go to create a new virtual pilot. Limited aircrafts per airbase, limited ammunition, limited fuel etc. More realistic repair times for every aircraft that is assigned for your virtual pilot on that server, better you are completing missions, more points you get, faster repairs, more available weapons etc. Lock the virtual pilots to your ED account ID, so you can't create new virtual pilot every time but you are limited to like 5 per month. If you stupid and you die so often that your pilot is lost in action, killed or requires constantly rescued, it is your fault. All blame to you! It is HARD CORE! So no dog fighting as you should know that you shouldn't challenge someone if it is not really required. No stupid flying in SAM NEZ to try get the lucky bomb in. Nothing idiotic flying, as if you eject too often or get killed, you are out of the multiplayer for month. Bye Bye!

 

That would put a FEAR to bottom of many virtual pilots who think they are skilled. Because they will get shot down sooner than later by their reckless flying and attitude that they can just try all stupid things they would never do in the real world.

And then those who do not believe they are so good and hard core, can go to fly in the GAME SIDE, with the training wheels etc, until they learn that real aviation is not about taking unnecessary risks.

[Pikey]

That derailed quick!

 

I'm OK with the way DCS is heading and I recognise that i'm not the only customer and that growth for the product is the most important part of me getting what I want. I've always liked the challenge and spend more time than most people. I know it's important for people to have options because we aren't all the same, and even in likeminded groups arguing if the map shows nothing or just the player. Options are important, even if they are skewed one way or another, because what is good for the game is people getting aboard.

 

 

Having said that, I have helped people for many years and I would never teach them to walk with a walking stick and it frustrates me personally. But I have to get over that personally, I cannot make people want DCS in the same way.

[funkyfranky]

It never stops to amaze me how many people do actually care what I do with my DCS on my local machine. It's like some here feel a disturbance in the force each time someone in a galaxy far, far away hits the autostart key combo. I'll actually try it when I get home and if you feel it, let me know.

[Pikey]

Indeed!

By the way, I berate my peers on that exact matter, but it's entirely banter, banter that probably originated from some of these odd viewpoints on the forums!

 

 

Frank if you dare use AutoStart, even if you are afk making a coffee, I will KNOW and I will AutoStart-Shame you on every social media I still have an account on for being unprofessional and not dedicated to the sim!!!

 

 

Kittens will die, the world will shift axis and mark my words, it will be the beginning of the end of all days...

 

 

It never stops to amaze me how many people do actually care what I do with my DCS on my local machine. It's like some here feel a disturbance in the force each time someone in a galaxy far, far away hits the autostart key combo. I'll actually try it when I get home and if you feel it, let me know.

[JanK]

I don't see the problem with easy mode.

Look at it this way:

Do you want dcs to keep growing?

Keep getting new awesome aircraft, not to mention the amazing looking maps we have and will get?

Well it's all about the $$$.....

 

So if easy mode, civil aircraft ect is needed to have dcs sell more, bring in the $$$ needed to keep going, so be it.

 

Just a newbs 2 cents :music_whistling:

[discwalker]

If only needle in a haystack is the relation of the "good" wishes in this section, the wishlist sections functioning properly.

[Tippis]

Funny thing about “realism” – it's the best way to absolutely kill all hope of having a good simulation.

 

To make a simulation interesting, fun, approachable, and available to large enough an audience to keep it alive, you must absolutely cut large swaths of realism out of it, or it will instantly and completely fail. Even professional simulators do that because you do not want the customer to not use your product — you want them to see it as an approachable means to learn the hardware and methodologies you want to teach (and sell) them.

 

As the title says Digital COMBAT Simulator. If you actually have any desire to achieve the full meaning of that, it means you should almost never ever fire your weapons. You should spend most of your in-game time sitting around doing nothing. Even on the off chance that you get to get in your plane, odds are you will not actually take off. While you're not taking off, you can fill out forms. If you crash, your account is deleted. If you Ctrl-E, your account is suspended. If you shoot the wrong targets, your account is deleted. If you choose to do one task over some other that's assigned to you, your account is suspended. Etc etc etc.

 

Sims do not do that — to “hardcore” (LMAO!) players or anyone else — for very very good reasons: because that would defeat the purpose of having a simulation to begin with. Instead, they offer a plethora of shortcuts so that you can get to what you want with a minimum of fuss and actually get on with the business of simulating the bits that are interesting. That is, after all, its entire purpose.

 

“Hardcore simmers” are playing easy mode just as much as everyone else, and if they believe otherwise, they have just not thought it through properly. Giving players more options CANNOT POSSIBLY “degrade” as simulator for anyone — the players can only choose to do it themselves, which means they're not the “hardcore simmer” they paint themselves to be. It's a nonsensical and incoherent notion to begin with to think that options would somehow make your gameplay less to your liking.

 

Worse still, “hardcore simmers” tend to be very confused about what actually counts as “realism”, equating it to difficulty when they are wholly separate concepts, and where realism would actually make things a whole lot easier than the “hardcore” experience the self-labelled simmers' egos would demand. Hence the never-ending fields of “arcade” windmills they like to bravely charge up against… In actuality, had realism and good simulation been what they actually wanted, they would have seen the grain-producing machinery for the absolute necessity it is.

[Sandman1330]

Funny thing about “realism” – it's the best way to absolutely kill all hope of having a good simulation.

 

To make a simulation interesting, fun, approachable, and available to large enough an audience to keep it alive, you must absolutely cut large swaths of realism out of it, or it will instantly and completely fail. Even professional simulators do that because you do not want the customer to not use your product — you want them to see it as an approachable means to learn the hardware and methodologies you want to teach (and sell) them.

 

As the title says Digital COMBAT Simulator. If you actually have any desire to achieve the full meaning of that, it means you should almost never ever fire your weapons. You should spend most of your in-game time sitting around doing nothing. Even on the off chance that you get to get in your plane, odds are you will not actually take off. While you're not taking off, you can fill out forms. If you crash, your account is deleted. If you Ctrl-E, your account is suspended. If you shoot the wrong targets, your account is deleted. If you choose to do one task over some other that's assigned to you, your account is suspended. Etc etc etc.

 

Sims do not do that — to “hardcore” (LMAO!) players or anyone else — for very very good reasons: because that would defeat the purpose of having a simulation to begin with. Instead, they offer a plethora of shortcuts so that you can get to what you want with a minimum of fuss and actually get on with the business of simulating the bits that are interesting. That is, after all, its entire purpose.

 

“Hardcore simmers” are playing easy mode just as much as everyone else, and if they believe otherwise, they have just not thought it through properly. Giving players more options CANNOT POSSIBLY “degrade” as simulator for anyone — the players can only choose to do it themselves, which means they're not the “hardcore simmer” they paint themselves to be. It's a nonsensical and incoherent notion to begin with to think that options would somehow make your gameplay less to your liking.

 

Worse still, “hardcore simmers” tend to be very confused about what actually counts as “realism”, equating it to difficulty when they are wholly separate concepts, and where realism would actually make things a whole lot easier than the “hardcore” experience the self-labelled simmers' egos would demand. Hence the never-ending fields of “arcade” windmills they like to bravely charge up against… In actuality, had realism and good simulation been what they actually wanted, they would have seen the grain-producing machinery for the absolute necessity it is.

 

*mike drop*

 

Well said. In the end this is a piece of entertainment software.

[nessuno0505]

Don’t forget MAC is coming for the people to keep it simpel. :D

 

I totally agree. Indeed, with MAC coming, I hope to see a distinct separation between an easier simulation in which you can choose difficulty level spreading from easy game mode to FC3-simulation mode (MAC), and a fully hardcore platform in which game mode and easyer options are completely removed (DCS).