F16 joystick/HOTAS discussion

[Cali]

1.) Same exact handle.

2.) Real stick moves just a tiny bit, probably 1/4" but just enough to give the pilot feedback on his/her input. Real Simulator FSSB R3 will give you a force sensing like the real jet, but it is $$$.

3.) CH did have a close replica, have no experience with. X52, similar but not 1:1.

4.) The HOTAS Cougar was USB, the issue is the Throttle had the gameport, but it was connected to the stick base, then base connected to the PC via USB. Real Simulator has an adapter to go from Gameport to USB. http://realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html

 

 

 

 

I sold my FSSB stick to soon, shouldn't have sold it at all. Maybe TM will start making them again.

[Icebeat]

Well here fully loaded F16 cougar stick with throttle modded with pressure sensors hehe real deal and can’t wait for f16 this will be day and night pedal to the metal!! Or ready to burnnn!!

 

could you share more info about "throttle modded with pressure sensors" please?

[Boris]

- The stick doesn't actually move, it just responds to pressure. Is it true, there's a way of modding a Warthog to do that? Does it work OK?

 

There is a way to mod the original Warthog base, which I recently came up with:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=245968

 

I can't overstate enough how well it works, especially considering the cost of the mod and the quality of the result.

[pimp]

Awe man! I ordered a TUSBA from real simulator for my Cougar Throttle, but only a cable was in the package. There was a hole in the paper envelope also. Maybe the other piece fell out.

Edited July 26, 2019 by pimp

[=Panther=]

All man! I ordered a TUSBA from real simulator for my Cougar Throttle, but only a cable was in the package. There was a hole in the paper envelope also. Maybe the other piece fell out.

 

Real Simulator is a good company, they will work with you in that scenario. Just reach out to them if you haven't.

[Wags]

I use an FSSB L3 and TUSBA and am quite happy with them. Quality stuff.

[Wags]

I sold my FSSB stick to soon, shouldn't have sold it at all. Maybe TM will start making them again.

 

I forgot you were down there, I was at the 192 yesterday.

[Deano87]

I use an FSSB L3 and TUSBA and am quite happy with them. Quality stuff.

 

Good to hear! At least we know the Viper will handle nicely with one. Are the SMEs getting to fly it with a FSSB also or are they using regular sticks?

[Emmer]

Is the Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Flight Pack any good for this module?

Or just give it a go with it and see what happens?

Edited August 15, 2019 by Emmer

[VampireNZ]

Is the Thrustmaster T16000M FCS Flight Pack any good for this module?

Or just give it a go with it and see what happens?

 

Yep they make good quality stuff - along with my VKB Gunfighter and FSSB w/ Warthog stick I have used the throttle for a few years now and it is still going strong. I much prefer the linear tracking throttle as I spent 6 years pushing throttles that moved the same way so it feels much more natural to me, and I just recently applied a bit of the Nyogel 767A (https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/nyogel-767aa-damping-grease-10g-tube/) to the rails and it feels great.

I have also just started using the pedals as they are narrow enough to fit inside the base of my Obutto rig, and they seem to be doing the job just fine (previously had driving pedals in there for dual-purpose setup).

 

Obviously the stick isn't force sensing or anything, but is still a good stick, I used one for a while till my VKB arrived, plenty of buttons on the base for additional mappings you don't need on your HOTAS setup.

 

Plenty of reviews on the gear, Stormbirds (great site) just did a thorough review of all the gear over here - https://stormbirds.blog/2019/08/13/thrustmaster-t-16000m-fcs-flight-pack-review/

You really can't beat the setup for value for money!

[Emmer]

Yep they make good quality stuff - along with my VKB Gunfighter and FSSB w/ Warthog stick I have used the throttle for a few years now and it is still going strong. I much prefer the linear tracking throttle as I spent 6 years pushing throttles that moved the same way so it feels much more natural to me, and I just recently applied a bit of the Nyogel 767A (https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/nyogel-767aa-damping-grease-10g-tube/) to the rails and it feels great.

I have also just started using the pedals as they are narrow enough to fit inside the base of my Obutto rig, and they seem to be doing the job just fine (previously had driving pedals in there for dual-purpose setup).

 

Obviously the stick isn't force sensing or anything, but is still a good stick, I used one for a while till my VKB arrived, plenty of buttons on the base for additional mappings you don't need on your HOTAS setup.

 

Plenty of reviews on the gear, Stormbirds (great site) just did a thorough review of all the gear over here - https://stormbirds.blog/2019/08/13/thrustmaster-t-16000m-fcs-flight-pack-review/

You really can't beat the setup for value for money!

 

Right ; well , i hope the release of the module won't take too long ; can't wait to give the Viper a spin...…...:thumbup:

[Harlikwin]

Quick question on the Real Simulator FSSB R3.

 

Am I correct in understanding that this basically gives you "non-moving" stick like the actual F16 has? And it is plug-n-play with the regular warthog stick?

 

Also, I was reading you can "dynamically" set the sensitivity in-game i.e. different sensitivity for re-fueling vs dogfighting? How does that actually work?

[VampireNZ]

Quick question on the Real Simulator FSSB R3.

 

Am I correct in understanding that this basically gives you "non-moving" stick like the actual F16 has? And it is plug-n-play with the regular warthog stick?

 

Also, I was reading you can "dynamically" set the sensitivity in-game i.e. different sensitivity for re-fueling vs dogfighting? How does that actually work?

 

Yes, non-moving force sensing base that you can plug your Warthog stick directly into - nothing else needed.

Yeah the software is actually really good and you can adjust all sorts of stuff like offset angle (as with a sidestick you 'pull back' slightly to the side so can 'rotate;' the force sensing - 12 degrees is as per the RL F-16), force settings and even the NASA setting (so less % force to roll right compared to roll left due to muscle strength diffs).

You have 4 different options to adjust the sensitivity on the fly in 25% increments using the DMS switch after pressing your preferred 'select' combo (either CMS press or pinky+paddle).

So select then DMS down is 50%, then same and CMS up and back to 100% - really easy. Saying that you really don't need to reduce the sensitivity to fly some pretty sweet formation - you have a pad to rest your forearm on (as in the real aircraft) and you very lightly hold the stick between your thumb and forefinger and use super light pressure. Was flying some formation with an AI Mirage last night and just came up alongside and gently rested my wingtip on top of his and flew along - very easy. Obviously also with the FBW you are only tweaking the control position, not holding it in place so constant pressure is not generally needed.

 

You can have a whole bunch of stuff on top of all that too - pretty nifty piece of kit. I got used to it immediately as from racing motorcycles you really use 'pressure' on the throttle and brake lever during corning while racing, so was no big shakes to adjust to pressure flying as opposed to gross movement.

Someone on the FSSB forum also posted a great python script that beeps the same as the Gripen when approaching 80% max force, and faster beep at 100% (which actually aligned perfectly with the beep warning in the Mirage most the time) - really cool. It does beep as standard(and flash LEDs in the base) - but is hard to hear in VR with ear buds in, so the python script plays the winsound beep.

 

Sorry - wall of text lol. Can't wait for the Viper!

Edited August 15, 2019 by VampireNZ

[Cupra]

FSSB is a nice tool indeed. But it does not fit in a cockpit :( So FSSB is no option for me.. hopefully with DCS someone will make a force sensor that will fit...

[Sierra99]

FSSB is a nice tool indeed. But it does not fit in a cockpit :( So FSSB is no option for me.. hopefully with DCS someone will make a force sensor that will fit...

 

What do you mean it does not fit in a cockpit?

 

It's no bigger than a Warthog Base...in fact it may be slightly smaller...

[Lynx_132a1]

What do you mean it does not fit in a cockpit?

 

It's no bigger than a Warthog Base...in fact it may be slightly smaller...

 

I think he is telling that the FSSB bases are not generally suitable for F-16 homecockpits. Older FSSB versions for the Cougar were too big and square shaped (The SSC force transducer box is cylindrical on top) therefore they couldn't be mounted in a homemade transducer box. The FCC (1,2&3) mods are smaller in form factor and can be fitted into a transducer box shell mounted in a simpit.

[VampireNZ]

Ok

Edited August 18, 2019 by VampireNZ

[Sierra99]

I think he is telling that the FSSB bases are not generally suitable for F-16 homecockpits. Older FSSB versions for the Cougar were too big and square shaped (The SSC force transducer box is cylindrical on top) therefore they couldn't be mounted in a homemade transducer box. The FCC (1,2&3) mods are smaller in form factor and can be fitted into a transducer box shell mounted in a simpit.

 

Ahhh I got ya...i was thinking About the current FSSB and couldn't understand how it was too big.

[Cupra]

Yeah, that was what I was talking about. FSSB is way too big to fit a stick base :( And since WhiteEagle has passed away there is actual no soloution on the market to fit this gap :(

[Lynx_132a1]

Yeah, that was what I was talking about. FSSB is way too big to fit a stick base :( And since WhiteEagle has passed away there is actual no soloution on the market to fit this gap :(

 

My friend has a Cougar that i have worked on a couple of times (Changed pots to DIY Hall's and such). A force sensing mod is a must for a cougar. If not for realism it is for the longevity of the product. We (are two people working on a simpit-ish build where i am the tech guy and the other guy is the finances guy) have a cougar with the original FCC modification back from 2002-3. Rock solid and sharp as a scalpel. I don't know the performance difference between the first and other FCC versions but the first version is built like a tank and doesn't have issues even after +10 years of service. Keep an eye out on falcon and simhq forums. From time to time some for sale posts appear for FCC stuff. Just need to set different curve settings for different mastermodes and voila! as real as it gets :)

 

(BTW the attached photos have a slight issue. The connector and the sensor must be rotated just a little bit to right (clockwise) about 15 degrees. I've read somewhere that the sensors on the plane is a bit turned to right so if the pilot were to pull straight back relative to the aircrafts nose than the plane would pitch up and drop the right wing slightly.)

 

Cheers.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Lynx_132a1

[Cupra]

I know about the angle.. but I will correct this later directly to my personal position. ;) But that is far away.. first the pit has to be finished, then DCS has to be released and then all the interface stuff has to be done… ;) :D Also all the extraction of all the instruments, HUD and so on...

[Cyborg71]

FSSB R3 LIGHTNING.....

 

Is this just an updated version of the older unit?

 

Also, (being a moderate purist) the F16 stick (irl) is angled forward from the vertical. I see that there is an add on mod (more£££) from Realsim to correct it.

Can someone advise me, is that add on piece necessary? I'm wondering if it would be a problem to just down angle the desk or platform you fix the FSSB to.

Or is there an issue where too much forward lean on the alresdy heavy warthog stick would apply forward pressure on the FSSB unit eensor causing persistant input (nose down) problems.

 

Could that sort of issue be zeroed out in the FSSB software?

 

Am I even making sense?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Could that sort of issue be zeroed out in the FSSB software?

.

 

Yes the software allows you to do that.

[VampireNZ]

FSSB R3 LIGHTNING.....

 

Is this just an updated version of the older unit?

 

Also, (being a moderate purist) the F16 stick (irl) is angled forward from the vertical. I see that there is an add on mod (more£££) from Realsim to correct it.

Can someone advise me, is that add on piece necessary? I'm wondering if it would be a problem to just down angle the desk or platform you fix the FSSB to.

Or is there an issue where too much forward lean on the alresdy heavy warthog stick would apply forward pressure on the FSSB unit eensor causing persistant input (nose down) problems.

 

Could that sort of issue be zeroed out in the FSSB software?

 

Am I even making sense?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

They will swap out the straight adaptor for the angled F-16 one if you ask them 'clearly' before delivery..so they say. I ended up with both of them, but they did offer to refund the straight one if I sent it back tracked from NZ to Spain...which would cost 1/2 the price again of the refund anyway lol.

 

Also, it is the FSSB R3 'Lighting' (not the electrical discharge) - due to the addition of LED lighting in the Base.

[Cupra]

The ageled part is only necessary if you make a real stick base. Because then your base is not horizontal. If you fly with a desktop or any kind of self made pit you will not need it.