Appeal for calm in the DCS F-16 community

[BuzzU]

Nineline...........I agree with you about being a mod. I was a mod on a couple of forums and it's a thankless job. You make more enemies than friends.

 

Good for you if you can stick it out.

[Sneak_King18]

hate to see this negativity as well. seems everybody gets along well when we play online together. f-16 will be awesome, even if it doesnt carry 16 missles or whatever else people are upset about. for the time being, get better with what you got! sometimes its boring starting the f-14, but once i get going i see where the consistency is helping. tried flying the 18 the other night but jumped back into the 14. nice to have options. the problem is...i LOVE the 18. lol, just getting better with the 14 is satisfying. good luck to everybody!

[TraxusIV]

 

It simply said this:

 

SiThSpAwN, you are a piece of ****. With no redeeming qualities.

 

It's hard to keep going with that kind of feedback, yet I did for a number of months. For now, I am out, I continue to wish Hoggit growth and all the good eggs lots of flight simming fun, but for me, I need a break.

 

Nineline, you are a piece of awesomeness with many admirable qualities. For every one of the vocal angry folks, I promise that there are 1000 normal people who love the product and appreciate your contributions and the roles you play. We just stay silent most of the time because crazy isn’t usually worth engaging. Please keep up the good work, even when certain decisions don’t go the way I’d prefer.

[NineLine]

Disable PMs and report the posts you find to be out of line. You gotta let the mods do their job, or at least give them a chance. There is a reason even the forums here have a report button, you guys can't catch everything, and neither can they.

 

Sadly toxicity exists in every gaming forum nowdays as devs open themselves up on social media. It sucks but it comes with the "territory" as there are people out there that don't know how to control themselves when there is a computer screen instead of a person in front of them. The majority of hoggit users are civil and love DCS, but you have a very vocal minority that can be very loud and may not give constructive criticism or resort to personal attacks. It would be a shame if ED shut out this source of feedback which has 24.7k of your customers participating.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3920895&postcount=67

 

I guess you missed that ;)

[NineLine]

Nineline, you are a piece of awesomeness with many admirable qualities. For every one of the vocal angry folks, I promise that there are 1000 normal people who love the product and appreciate your contributions and the roles you play. We just stay silent most of the time because crazy isn’t usually worth engaging. Please keep up the good work, even when certain decisions don’t go the way I’d prefer.

 

As long as Wags and team are happy I ain't planning on going anywhere, I love this community and sim :)

[Keks]

Can we please step back the "other forum bad" narrative a little bit?

 

Fact is every group of humans interacting with each other has its own number of token special snowflakes. Pretending one community has a moral high ground over the other one does not help anyone. The only thing it will do is amplify the hostility (assuming there actually is one, besides the token snowflakes) and widening the gap.

 

Please dont do that.

That there are numerous deleted messages in this topic kinda makes my point I guess. If any community was perfect it wouldnt have deleted posts....

 

Also I am sure that the moderators of the community in question will take action and do everything they can to restore order.

[Sneak_King18]

i agree with you. most people in this world are usually brighter than most.

 

Hoggit has some good info, but it seems that the GEN X crowd has taken it over. its not the majority, but alot of younger folk who want the world when they get the f-15c. its a large group coming in, but dont have the patience it seems as some of the established folks. alot of the guys here started back in 2008, where alot of the pitchfork peeps on hoggits were just learning how to ride a bike.

 

ill be honest, i forgot why every one was so mad, but unfortunately alot of the anger is on par with things going on in the world today. young hoggiters are ballsy about being rough on the computer, and by the looks of alot of their personal pics, they wouldnt voice an opinion in real life.

 

this is hard work, and its beautifully done. the demand is thru the roof, not based on realistic programming and coding expectations. I think ED busts their behinds, and does a good job on it too. people who are angry act like its their right to get things handed to them, when its more their right to walk away and find something to play. Ive enjoyed the 3 year learning curve, and still consider myself pretty basic on my skills. they are increasing though. its a mature peoples simulator, and alot of the anger is from the younger crowd not ok with what they are/arent getting.

 

not trying to start a fire, or put one out, but ive learned so much from these forums and playing this game and im thankful for that. i was able to put a science to one of my passions and have no regrets about any of it. just hate to see real world anger in a video game, and alot of that anger seems to be coming from youngsters who dont know the real world yet.

 

all you guys/girls rock, even if your haters

[Teeter]

i agree with you. most people in this world are usually brighter than most.

 

Hoggit has some good info, but it seems that the GEN X crowd has taken it over. its not the majority, but alot of younger folk who want the world when they get the f-15c. its a large group coming in, but dont have the patience it seems as some of the established folks. alot of the guys here started back in 2008, where alot of the pitchfork peeps on hoggits were just learning how to ride a bike.

 

ill be honest, i forgot why every one was so mad, but unfortunately alot of the anger is on par with things going on in the world today. young hoggiters are ballsy about being rough on the computer, and by the looks of alot of their personal pics, they wouldnt voice an opinion in real life.

 

this is hard work, and its beautifully done. the demand is thru the roof, not based on realistic programming and coding expectations. I think ED busts their behinds, and does a good job on it too. people who are angry act like its their right to get things handed to them, when its more their right to walk away and find something to play. Ive enjoyed the 3 year learning curve, and still consider myself pretty basic on my skills. they are increasing though. its a mature peoples simulator, and alot of the anger is from the younger crowd not ok with what they are/arent getting.

 

not trying to start a fire, or put one out, but ive learned so much from these forums and playing this game and im thankful for that. i was able to put a science to one of my passions and have no regrets about any of it. just hate to see real world anger in a video game, and alot of that anger seems to be coming from youngsters who dont know the real world yet.

 

all you guys/girls rock, even if your haters

 

Hey, can we not make this a generational thing? The most opinionated people on Hoggit are middle aged guys who've been regulars for years anyway. I know because I've read there and here for about 7 years now, since wayyyyy before Reddit quite took off for the younger crowd, and this Hoggit vs. Forums crap isn't a new thing.

[pii]

"So really, simply changing things to the way you want would not change the tone of the community. "

which is everyone else wanting changes to the way they want. Whats the difference? The bottom line is the community are a bunch of complainers and whiners and its not unique to DCS either.

 

I agree with him stop EA also this one seems way too early as they don't even have the feature list nailed down yet. If you complain about no content for a year or two then you've missed all the other developers

[fl0w]

Both Hoggit and the forums behave in different ways, but it should not be a generation label. Let's not try to shift the blame onto another platform because of the vocality and feedback of users on the Viper.

[TraxusIV]

The bottom line is the community are a bunch of complainers and whiners and its not unique to DCS either.

 

Maybe it’s just semantics, but I think this is worth pointing out: Neither community is a bunch of whiners and complainers. It’s simply the case that the tiny minority of users in these communities who ARE angry and feel the need to express their opinions roughly have a relatively free venue to do so, where the worst thing that can happen is that they lose access to post on that venue. Free speech is most well used by those who are upset by something. Again though, TINY minority. 20,000+ people on Hoggit, and fewer than 50 spewing angry hate. Do the math.

[Krippz]

Indeed, certainly not an operationally valid loadout. However, after talking with the team yesterday, we'll probably allow it for those that want to be so inaccurate.

 

Thanks

 

I don't think you guys should have conceded to the pitchforks out there. DCS to me is a accurate representation of military hardware. If the loadout was phased out and not used why make the TER available to appease the vocal minority?

[Vitormouraa]

The toughest job on earth: Dealing with people.

 

Let's calm down guys. Let ED do their thing, then once the module is out, we can discuss whether Y, X or Z is wrong/inadequate, etc. But all this drama (Especially on Hoggit) isn't necessary. :)

[billeinstein]

I don't think you guys should have conceded to the pitchforks out there. DCS to me is a accurate representation of military hardware. If the loadout was phased out and not used why make the TER available to appease the vocal minority?

 

You can still use AIM-9L/M in the game while the Air Force was using 9X in 2007. Let the mission builder decide isn’t a bad idea.

[pushkin]

I'm happy with the early access. I'm planning on using the Viper for air-to-air, so I don't need all the bells and whistles. True, I could buy the F-14 or the F/A-18, but I don't have an emotional connection to those, whereas I do with the F-16. I'm also going to be gone until the end of Summer, so no DCS for me until shortly before the F-16 comes out. Overall, the way this is being released is perfect for me. It's not perfect for other people, but that's just the point: there's no way to release this in a way that suits everyone.

[NineLine]

Hey, can we not make this a generational thing?

 

Yeah, in no way do I think this is an age thing, I have seen many young guys act way more mature than their age, and older guys act way more immature for theirs... no way you can group it like that.

[NineLine]

I don't think you guys should have conceded to the pitchforks out there. DCS to me is a accurate representation of military hardware. If the loadout was phased out and not used why make the TER available to appease the vocal minority?

 

Don't see it as conceding, although I will miss posting and interacting there, I have stepped it up more on the ED Discord, animated gifs work way better there anyways :) Not like you guys won't hear from us, just on different channels.

[Sierra99]

I’ll calm down when we get the LAU-88 racks for double and triple AGM-65 loadouts, which block 50s were approved to use and DID use for decades.

 

Why did ED decide to be so anally specific on the loadout for the viper but is including everything from IOC to 2007 for the Hornet?

 

I'm just curious...how many time will you have to be told F-16s did not fly operationally with triple Mavericks? How many times will you have to be told why it was not done before you accept it as fact?

 

I flew in the Air Force for 22 years as a Boom Operator. I have flown combat missions during Desert Shield, Desert Storm, operation Deny Flight, operation Allied force, Operation enduring freedom and operation Iraqi Freedom.

 

I've refueling F-16As on their way to become target drones and F-16CGs and CJs so new their tail number information wasn't in our database...I have refueled literally hundreds and hundreds of F-16s in combat zones carrying yellow banded weapons...

 

And not once in 22 years did I ever see an F-16 in a combat environment with Six Mavericks.

 

If the load out was used for decades and so wide spread...show us pictures.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Sierra99

[billeinstein]

I'm just curious...how many time will you have to be told F-16s did not fly operationally with triple Mavericks? How many times will you have to be told why it was not done before you accept it as fact?

 

I flew in the Air Force for 22 years as a Boom Operator. I have flown combat missions during Desert Shield, Desert Storm, operation Deny Flight, operation Allied force, Operation enduring freedom and operation Iraqi Freedom.

 

I've refueling F-16As on their way to become target drones and F-16CGs and CJs so new their tail number information wasn't in our database...I have refueled literally hundreds and hundreds of F-16s in combat zones carrying yellow banded weapons...

 

And not once in 22 years did I ever see an F-16 in a combat environment with Six Mavericks.

 

If the load out was used for decades and so wide spread...show us pictures.

 

Players may use some strange load out that never happened in real life just for fun. Such as a 120C on left wing tip and a 9L on right wing tip. The game shall not eliminate this possibility just because USAF never load them as that.

Triple Mavericks operation may have some risk. If the game can reflect this risk (like random explosion?) of this load out, that would be better, maybe?:D

[phantomknight321]

Lots of great things that got touched on in here; I really appreciate the level-headedness that usually tends to prevail on these forums and the discord servers lately (probably due in part to ninelines hard work in maintaining order)

 

I DO believe that part of the outrage around the viper in particular was solely coming off the heels of the carrier controversy. While the issues will probably have still come up, the community was already worked up from one thing, so it was easy to scrutinize the next. That being said, I think that the approaches being taken thus far are great. Allowing for the LAU-88, fantastic. Even if it doesn't happen in the end, I appreciate the effort to allow for flexibility in loadout (and I would be lying if I said I would never use it, despite being a strong defender of EDs choice to exclude it before). Any other outrage the community wants to get into over other things, like JSOW and Sniper stuff, people just need to remember that this is military hardware getting simulated, there is only so much ED can do, and I am positive they will do their best to give us the most that they can.

[StandingCow]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3920895&postcount=67

 

I guess you missed that ;)

 

 

I can understand needing a break... I just hope this isn't permanent as we appreciate the input you provided on there (well at least most of us do).

 

One thing I hope to never experience is what you all and some "internet famous" people have to deal with and that is being flooded with negativity... I can only imagine how that must impact a person's emotional/mental health. You have have 100 positive comments and 1 negative but for some reason the human brain REALLY focuses on that 1 negative. I am sure it has negatively impacted some of the devs as well.

[Pepperpete]

I think many of you on here are misinterpreting the anger that some are expressing. Some are angry over the F-16 simply because the lack of updates to the core game. Unfortunately I've been one of those "new" (to the forum) people that have been slightly negative on Hoggit. I am not a millennial. I am not a crybaby. I'm a 42 year old professional who has spent literal thousands of dollars in DCS. The problem is I don't want to drive my new flashy hotrod on a road filled with potholes. And I am rarely seeing any improvements at all to the core game itself.

 

"An accurate representation of military hardware"

 

YES! But that "hardware" extends to ATC that works and is more authentic. That "hardware" extends to runways with proper lighting. AI that can fly the plane and land properly. So it soils an experience like the F-16 EA announcement because it means running into the same immersion breaking bugs and issues that infect ALL the modules due to no forward movement in the core experience.

 

Listen I'm not posting this to bash ED. But toxic communities sometimes flare up when there are REAL issues. And seeing the F-16 in pre-order just shocked a ton of us. I will pay for the Carrier when it's released no issues. It's an option. I will buy the F-16 EA without hesitation. But lets get the house in order before bringing in more family members.

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Pepperpete

[Mad-Mex]

Allow me a couple of minutes on the soapbox:

 

IF you believe a module should not be released until it is completed,

DONT BUY IT UNTIL IT IS COMPLETED

 

Also, if you believe the F-16 flew with 3 Mavericks, 3 Mk-82’s under each wing along with an AMRAM and a sidewinder on each wing tip

DEVELOP YOUR OWN MODULE

 

Like many others, I am tired of the “experts” coming here and make an attempt to bestow on us their knowledge of this aircraft which they have only read about never even sat on the aircraft with power on.

As for me, my only experience on the F-16 is working on it for three years as a crew chief, 12 stitches on top of my head after standing up straight on the trailing edge of a flaparon and 2 hours in a USAF simulator.

 

Now, where can I pre-pay for my copy?

[Supertaquito]

Allow me a couple of minutes on the soapbox:

 

IF you believe a module should not be released until it is completed,

DONT BUY IT UNTIL IT IS COMPLETED

 

 

Welp, guess servers with A-10s vs WWII Warbirds could be fun too.. in terms of not buying any Early Access modules until they are completed.

[billeinstein]

IF you believe a module should not be released until it is completed,

DONT BUY IT UNTIL IT IS COMPLETED

 

Also, if you believe the F-16 flew with 3 Mavericks, 3 Mk-82’s under each wing along with an AMRAM and a sidewinder on each wing tip

DEVELOP YOUR OWN MODULE

Agree the first one.

For the second one, I do believe that never a real F-16CM flew like that and experts may fell this ruined the "realistic".

But this not prevent anyone to play it as real as it is if he want. Just like players in the game can enjoy taking off and landing on the taxiway, since it is forbidden in real life. The game even has a "game" mode for any one who like it you know.