Valve Index Hands On

[mdee]

Most military pilots. My squadron is loaded with pilots.

 

 

 

 

 

You sure he can fit a scuba dive mask under this helmet? I am not saying he is not wearing one, just curious how he can fit it in there.

[Supmua]

OK I had a chance to try my Index with DCS for a bit, and it's positive (well, I'm not a grumpy pessimistic old man like some other people).

 

Settings are exactly the same as my Vive Pro which has been my daily driver (posted in VR Test thread), PD 1.0, SS 100%, except the 120Hz mode.

 

The first thing that jumps out is that FOV is wider both horizontally and vertically. Image quality doesn't pop like it does on the Vive Pro (lower vibrance as well as contrastJ), but it's not dull. Black level is similar to my LCD monitor (it's ok but no comparison to OLED). Clarity is definitely a step up but not night and day difference, what is clear to me is that the shimmering and jagginess at PD 1.0 (and Steam SS 100%) is significantly reduced. I would not like to play DCS on my Vive Pro at PD 1.0/SS 100% but on the Index I wouldn't mind.

 

With 120Hz mode, I was able to maintain 60 FPS most of the time. It would drop down to 40 at places that are known to tank your FPS such as Khasab airport, but there is no stuttering at this FPS. When I'm out in the menu screen the FPS stays at 120 and when moving my head side to side quickly it feels very good/smooth, much better than 90 FPS and this will be a great addition when playing fast pace/shooting games.

 

I'm still working through the weekend so this is probably it for now, plus my kids are all over this new headset like supreme candy, and they especially like finger tracking on the Index controllers which are really awesome with supported games.

[Zoomer]

It's not to say there aren't other uses for VR. I was playing Google Earth VR and had a great time. I'll probably play some horror games in VR. However, I'm not going to fool myself into thinking VR is the end all be all in DCS.

 

 

The VR mentality here is cultist.

 

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have the CV1 and have finished playing pancake games. For sims such as DCS etc. VR is the crossing of the Rubicon, a one way trip once you have experienced the immersion. VR is to the flat screen as the internal combustion engine was to the horse.

[Zoomer]

OK I had a chance to try my Index with DCS for a bit, and it's positive (well, I'm not a grumpy pessimistic old man like some other people).

 

Settings are exactly the same as my Vive Pro which has been my daily driver (posted in VR Test thread), PD 1.0, SS 100%, except the 120Hz mode.

 

The first thing that jumps out is that FOV is wider both horizontally and vertically. Image quality doesn't pop like it does on the Vive Pro (lower vibrance as well as contrastJ), but it's not dull. Black level is similar to my LCD monitor (it's ok but no comparison to OLED). Clarity is definitely a step up but not night and day difference, what is clear to me is that the shimmering and jagginess at PD 1.0 (and Steam SS 100%) is significantly reduced. I would not like to play DCS on my Vive Pro at PD 1.0/SS 100% but on the Index I wouldn't mind.

 

With 120Hz mode, I was able to maintain 60 FPS most of the time. It would drop down to 40 at places that are known to tank your FPS such as Khasab airport, but there is no stuttering at this FPS. When I'm out in the menu screen the FPS stays at 120 and when moving my head side to side quickly it feels very good/smooth, much better than 90 FPS and this will be a great addition when playing fast pace/shooting games.

 

I'm still working through the weekend so this is probably it for now, plus my kids are all over this new headset like supreme candy, and they especially like finger tracking on the Index controllers which are really awesome with supported games.

 

Thanks for the info. How are the lenses, lot`s of talk about godray`s etc.

[Supmua]

Thanks for the info. How are the lenses, lot`s of talk about godray`s etc.

 

The lens are superb, did not notice any geometric distortion (I used the FOV Test environment on SteamVR Home). As a matter of fact the clarity is almost edge to edge. This is the first VR headset that I could comfortably wear using Virtual desktop to browse the net or watch movies, texts on Google Chrome are completely legible especially when glancing to the side (blurry on other headsets).

 

I don't know if I would call this god ray but it's sort of like sun glare that only occurs at the edge of the periphery when you have a very bright and large object against black background. It doesn't affect the image fidelity in the center of the vision, but it is noticeable if you pay attention.

 

I still can't say enough positive things about the 120Hz mode. Everything feels so lifelike. Still have to try the 144Hz but my kids are still hogging the device.

[mdee]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have the CV1 and have finished playing pancake games. For sims such as DCS etc. VR is the crossing of the Rubicon, a one way trip once you have experienced the immersion. VR is to the flat screen as the internal combustion engine was to the horse.

 

"The VR mentality here is cultist." :D

[imacken]

The lens are superb, did not notice any geometric distortion (I used the FOV Test environment on SteamVR Home). As a matter of fact the clarity is almost edge to edge. This is the first VR headset that I could comfortably wear using Virtual desktop to browse the net or watch movies, texts on Google Chrome are completely legible especially when glancing to the side (blurry on other headsets).

 

I don't know if I would call this god ray but it's sort of like sun glare that only occurs at the edge of the periphery when you have a very bright and large object against black background. It doesn't affect the image fidelity in the center of the vision, but it is noticeable if you pay attention.

 

I still can't say enough positive things about the 120Hz mode. Everything feels so lifelike. Still have to try the 144Hz but my kids are still hogging the device.

 

What about the crucial SDE?

[remi]

 

But make no mistake, for most people VR makes you feel like you're almost there, sitting in the real plane. Having to lean in to read a MFD more clearly, or to see a gauge on an aircraft that wasn't designed with VR in mind from the ground up is a temporary minor annoyance to most.

 

Are you serious??

 

Real pilots don't lean in to read the DDIs. :doh: they're able to read everything because they are using their eyeballs in real reality.

 

Why are you attributing your own experience in the cockpit of the Hornet as the actual experience of Hornet pilots?

 

The whole point of 4k clarity is to be able to see all the instruments without zooming or leaning in.

[Supmua]

What about the crucial SDE?

 

Much better than Vive Pro, but it's still there. If I wear glasses, I almost can't see it (glasses are very tight fit and I have to move the screen panels away a bit so they won't touch my glasses, Vive Pro is much more spacious in this area and more comfortable if you wear glasses). For some reason, I notice SDE more wearing contact lens. It's similar to plastering your face next to your LCD monitor, if you use 1080p you can sort of make out individual pixels when getting too close to the screen.

 

What is so much better is clarity. Vive Pro's clarity is only in the center area of view, on the Index everything is clear almost all across the entire field of view. This might be sort of subtle in DCS, but fire up Web browser and it becomes very apparent.

[nrosko]

I managed to get the sound working, sort of although i still frustratingly have to select it in settings when i start a game.

 

I still haven't figured out how turn off the chaperone & get the feeling you can't so i can see a big red ring all the time.

 

Tried some driving sims with mixed results, assetto corsa did not perform well even with all the pixel density settings at 1.0 I run it at 1.5 in my rift also using content manager is not really viable using the desktop in steam vr. Biggest concern was driving at night time the glare is so bad i could hardly see where i was going, this glare mixed with the unconvincing grey night makes it almost undrivable.

Race room was really good though look really sharp & was very smooth to play, its normally hard to get good frame rates in my rift.

Same as Rf2 really surprised how good it looks & at how well it performed.

Project cars 2 similar to ac seemed to struggle & looked quite rough.

couldn't get dirt rally working.

 

Sometimes my wheel pedal etc are making navigation in steam VR impossible because its getting continual inputs from these devices.

 

Still on the fence to return it or not

[sk000tch]

nrosko-

 

Your problem sound like just not knowing steamvr well. You might try Advanced settings: https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-AdvancedSettings

 

It should help you get your settings dialed in, audio and chaperone problems, etc

[MA_Goblin]

${1}

[itarrow]

Are you serious??

 

Real pilots don't lean in to read the DDIs. :doh: they're able to read everything because they are using their eyeballs in real reality.

 

Why are you attributing your own experience in the cockpit of the Hornet as the actual experience of Hornet pilots?

 

The whole point of 4k clarity is to be able to see all the instruments without zooming or leaning in.

 

He never said real pilots do that. He said is a minor annoyance to who’s using VR.

 

I’m not sure I understand what’s your goal here ? To explain us VR cultist in a VR forum why we shouldn’t have fun because obviously the only way to have fun is yours ?

 

On a mission to convert VR gamers back to flat monitors ?

[RealDCSpilot]

@remi

 

 

If you have the balls, please post your bs in the oculus threads, i want to be entertained.

[Supmua]

One thing I have to mention is sound. The audio quality is very good once you angle the earpieces correctly toward you ear canal, and this was compared to my daily driver which is Sennheiser HD 660S with balanced output/Sabaj DA3 DAC/AMP.

 

There is decently wide soundstage and good image separation. Mid and high are great and clear without distortion. Bass is also good with enough texture detail (natural not boomy like those Beats headsets) but suffers a bit at very low frequency. I think this headset has the best audio of them all, by far.

[PlainSight]

So, the Index does look to be the best jack-of-all-trades for this gen.

Sure the Reverb has bigger res and Pimax bigger FOV. But in a complete package of everything thrown in together, looks like the Index packs the best compromise of quality, software, FOV, resolution and clarity.

[Baldrick33]

So, the Index does look to be the best jack-of-all-trades for this gen.

Sure the Reverb has bigger res and Pimax bigger FOV. But in a complete package of everything thrown in together, looks like the Index packs the best compromise of quality, software, FOV, resolution and clarity.

I agree but everyone's use criteria varies. Why compromise on FOV or resolution if that is your primary wish?

 

 

If it isn't going to be used as a jack of all trades headset why buy one?

 

 

If you do want a headset for seated sims and room scale controller games then the Index does look the best albeit expensive. Although some might find a Reverb/Quest option a better option at a similar cost.

[itarrow]

Agreed on everything, at the end it is up to you.

 

What's really good is that there's so many options, all finally at a really good quality level.

 

I've enjoyed my Vive, but the Index gives a much better quality... I am playing a lot just thanks to that in this last few days... And I imagine it's the same or better for anybody trying the Oculus S or the Reverb or whatever it's your favorite one.

 

Thinking back at when I bought F15 Strike Fighter on a ZX Spectrum and I was enjoying it...

[Secoda]

Also, most folks playing DCS are generally adults with enough discretionary income to choose what fits their needs the best if the cost is within reason. There is such a wide disparity in prices that may have a huge effect on what market share each garner in the end. $400, $600/650, or $1000? :

 

There is a lot more competition with so many headsets coming out and all of them may not survive. Is the Valve Index really 250% better than the Oculus Rift S? If a parent is buying a set for his kid - which do you think they might buy? :cry:

Edited June 30, 2019 by Secoda

[Supmua]

That’s why we don’t drive the same kind of cars or wear the same type of clothings. Personal preferences and needs.

[nrosko]

So, the Index does look to be the best jack-of-all-trades for this gen.

Sure the Reverb has bigger res and Pimax bigger FOV. But in a complete package of everything thrown in together, looks like the Index packs the best compromise of quality, software, FOV, resolution and clarity.

 

well i don't own a vive pro but i would say its oled display makes it competitive with the index if you use the lense mod you could also say it has better god rays/glare also.

 

Maybe somebody who owns both may have a differing view but i would never go for a LCD HMD in future.

[Secoda]

Someone posted this above but I fixed the link. Too bad he didn't have a Reverb. He really doesn't like the glare/God Rays with the Index and considers that a big disadvantage. (I wonder if that can be helped later on?) I was surprised/disappointed when he measured the actual FOV's. Not nearly what some of the subjective comments have led us to believe about the Valve Index although enough to be noticeable (really no change in the vertical FOV). It does seem that the other manufacturers are fibbing about the FOV's but there is a lot of variability depending on how you wear it and somewhat because of the shape of one's head. He also mentions that by tightening the straps and putting the lenses closer to your eyes has a big effect on actual seen FOV so that could vary from person to person quite a bit. I would love to know where the Reverb actually is. It seems a bit wider than my Lenovo Explorer which claims 110 degrees.

 

If you wear glasses the Reverb headset is very good IMO. I just rotate up the strap and put them on with no other adjustment necessary. The Index requires an adjustment so you don't scratch the lenses. That is a problem with the Lenovo Explorer where the glasses can mar the lenses. I suspect the FOV is better because of how close the Index usually puts your eyes to the lenses. I would think that the FOV is less with glasses on since you must adjust the lenses away from your eyes.

 

The Valve Index has a cable connector as well. To me it looks to be better than the one on the Reverb since at least it is placed where it cannot flex so much (right on the headset). Only time will tell if it is good.

 

The last thing that surprised me was how hot he says the Index is getting. He said his head is really sweating a lot. My Lenovo gets warm but my Reverb stays pretty cool even after three hours. (I heard at least one person say their Reverb got hot but I think that is a problem with that particular Reverb). The Reverb is just a lot more clear with no SDE that does still exist in the Index making it tougher to spot planes and things.

 

While I am still in the window to swap the Reverb for the Valve Index I just don't see any reason to for primarily playing DCS. In fact the opposite seems to make more sense - especially once they work through the Reverb bugs. I love that the rubber nose cover can be removed on the Reverb which I did right away so I can peek at the keyboard. The Valve Index does seem to have the best controllers out there if you play games that needs them. It seems the best choice for mobile use. For me in DCS, however, clarity is the most important thing. I don't use controllers for DCS.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Secoda

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

The Vive Pro OLED panel is great. The problem is that it is only great in the center. Glance to the side without turning your head and things get blurry. This isn’t the case with the Index.

 

I tested the Index with a bunch of screen test refs from lagom.nl and it is quite satisfactory in terms of contrast, black level and white saturation. Didn’t see any crushed colors. No it is not as vivid or super contrasty like OLED screen but it is good for an LCD screen.

 

Performance has been good so far. I don’t know why some report terrible performance. I did a lap of Project Cars 2 in private session (no other cars) with high background/high shadows and I’m getting 120 FPS with <2% reprojection. That’s pretty good in my book. Of course this will tank in online play but it is far from terrible, especially when compared to DCS.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Supmua

[imacken]

Also, most folks playing DCS are generally adults with enough discretionary income to choose what fits their needs the best if the cost is within reason. There is such a wide disparity in prices that may have a huge effect on what market share each garner in the end. $400, $600/650, or $1000? :

 

There is a lot more competition with so many headsets coming out and all of them may not survive. Is the Valve Index really 250% better than the Oculus Rift S? If a parent is buying a set for his kid - which do you think they might buy? :cry:

 

Let's just get a couple of things straight here. The Rift S is £450 and the full Index kit is just over £900 here, so it's 100% more expensive. Plus, for existing Vive/Vive Pro users (like myself), the Index without base stations and controller is £450, so the same price.

With the Vive/Vive Pro/Index, part of your money goes to a system, i.e. base stations and controllers that can (probably) be used in future VR headsets.

You can't relate price to quality anyway. Who's to make an objective judgement of the 'value' of a Rift S or Reverb or Index? Totally down to the individual user.

[nrosko]

The Vive Pro OLED panel is great. The problem is that it is only great in the center. Glance to the side without turning your head and things get blurry. This isn’t the case with the Index.

 

I tested the Index with a bunch of screen test refs from lagom.nl and it is quite satisfactory in terms of contrast, black level and white saturation. Didn’t see any crushed colors. No it is not as vivid or super contrasty like OLED screen but it is good for an LCD screen.

 

Performance has been good so far. I don’t know why some report terrible performance. I did a lap of Project Cars 2 in private session (no other cars) with high background/high shadows and I’m getting 120 FPS with <2% reprojection. That’s pretty good in my book. Of course this will tank in online play but it is far from terrible, especially when compared to DCS.

 

I don't how you are getting satisfactory black levels, i wonder if its a calibration issue with some headsets as there are mixed reports. Even my lcd monitor is a magnitude of difference in black levels in comparison to the index. I'm also seeing clear black crush i can see it in the black panels & instruments of the f18.