Valve Index Hands On

[Wicked.-]

@Wicked.-

 

 

I disabled track recording: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=208832

In longer sessions this might fill RAM/pagefile too much. Another problem might be a memory leak VRAM or RAM, i had this in a multiplayer session a couple of betas ago, VRAM was filled by 100% and my framerate started to drop.

 

I had to create the file as I didn't have one. What I did have is a track file folder and it had 13GB of track files from flying online since I built this computer. WTF??!! Lol I deleted those files. The instructions on creating a file if you don't have one to edit didn't work. After creating it, I flew on our server and it created more track files. Could Tacview have something to do with that? It creates its own files but they're in My Documents..

[RealDCSpilot]

Track files will still be generated, but only static mission parameters will be saved (just a couple of kb). It's stated in the original post. 9GB VRAM usage is pretty normal, only if something's wrong it will go over 12 GB (2080ti)...

[Johnny Dioxin]

I knew Steam client was not available when in application-launched SteamVR (such as DCS World, IL-2 etc) but couldn't be bothered explaining why - but just to confirm, I tried to change my controller (Knuckles) setting just now and got the message "Steam is not available" in SteamVR.

 

Apart from that, if I run one of those sims (or EliteD) which use SteamVR and then close the sim, without cloasing SteamVR and start the Steam client, then try to run anything from Steam in VR, it gives an error message.

 

SteamVR then has to be restarted to enable it within the Steam client, or it just won't work. It's been this way since I got my Index - maybe before, as the Steam Client never ran when I was running these sims with Oculus Rift through SteamVR.

 

There ya go - I explained it :)

[Supmua]

I'm running into CPU frametime issue typically at busy airports while taxiing on the runway looking slightly to the side. fpsVR report FPS in 20s while GPU frametime is in orange zone below 20ms (which should yield FPS >40-45), however CPU frametime is spiking high intermittently into the red zone. Looking straightforward in the cockpit or all the way to the side and the FPS came up appropriately. This typically indicates CPU bottleneck, just wondering if other people also see this behavior. This is on DCS OB and SteamVR 1.7.12, Index at 80Hz mode. There is no temp issues as far as I can see, just added 2 Noctua fans blowing directly into my GPU heatsink and it no longer reaches 80 no matter how I stress it.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Supmua

[imacken]

I'm running into CPU frametime issue typically at busy airports while taxiing on the runway looking slightly to the side. fpsVR report FPS in 20s while GPU frametime is in orange zone below 20ms (which should yield FPS >40-45), however CPU frametime is spiking high intermittently into the red zone. Looking straightforward in the cockpit or all the way to the side and the FPS came up appropriately. This typically indicates CPU bottleneck, just wondering if other people also see this behavior. This is on DCS OB and SteamVR 1.7.12, Index at 80Hz mode. There is no temp issues as far as I can see, just added 2 Noctua fans blowing directly into my GPU heatsink and it no longer reaches 80 no matter how I stress it.

 

Hmm, can't say I am seeing that.

But, try the FAM flight in the Hornet Aggressors Campaign. During the startup, I am in a 20fps slide show! It's OK once I'm on the move, but horrible during the startup procedure.

Weird, as I thought ED have fixed the static Hornet fps issue. For example, going into the IA Ready on the Ramp in Persian Gulf used to be 20fps until the external Hornets disappeared, but now it's fine sitting at 45 all the way.

[Supmua]

And I thought I’ve tuned my system optimally enough. I had zero issues flying low in Dubai with consistent 40+FPS, yet on the ground it can still be a mess.

[Supmua]

And I thought I’ve tuned my system optimally enough. I had zero issues flying low in Dubai with consistent 40+FPS, yet on the ground it can still be a mess.

 

 

 

Edit:

Saw this with my 4KTV setup also where frame rate tanks at airport to a lesser degree. So, I think this might be DCS rather than SteamVR issue.

[Wicked.-]

I'm running into CPU frametime issue typically at busy airports while taxiing on the runway looking slightly to the side. fpsVR report FPS in 20s while GPU frametime is in orange zone below 20ms (which should yield FPS >40-45), however CPU frametime is spiking high intermittently into the red zone. Looking straightforward in the cockpit or all the way to the side and the FPS came up appropriately. This typically indicates CPU bottleneck, just wondering if other people also see this behavior. This is on DCS OB and SteamVR 1.7.12, Index at 80Hz mode. There is no temp issues as far as I can see, just added 2 Noctua fans blowing directly into my GPU heatsink and it no longer reaches 80 no matter how I stress it.

 

Yep, I'm getting the exact same behavior but at 90Hz. My gfx card doesn't go over 68c and CPU doesn't break 65c. I've begun rebooting my computer before starting a session hoping to clear out anything that may be taking up resources. With this latest beta I've experienced the best visual quality and smoothness since purchase, whether at 204% custom res and everything else at 100% or at 138% DCS Application SS and 148% custom resolution. It looks and feels beautiful at the beginning but steadily degrades as I continue flying exhibiting the above mentioned behavior.

[RealDCSpilot]

All we can do is wait...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4022478&postcount=20

[Nahemoth]

Yep, I'm getting the exact same behavior but at 90Hz. My gfx card doesn't go over 68c and CPU doesn't break 65c. I've begun rebooting my computer before starting a session hoping to clear out anything that may be taking up resources. With this latest beta I've experienced the best visual quality and smoothness since purchase, whether at 204% custom res and everything else at 100% or at 138% DCS Application SS and 148% custom resolution. It looks and feels beautiful at the beginning but steadily degrades as I continue flying exhibiting the above mentioned behavior.

 

Do you experience better performance with DCS OB?

 

I'm just using the official release of DCS (and latest beta of SteamVR), I have reduced the graphic settings and the refresh rate to 80 Hz (SS to 204% with MSAA x2). I get nearly constant 40 FPS with MS, and with fpsVR I see that the GPU is not overloaded (at 70%). In any case, I continue seeing ghosting effect on surrounding planes (also in my wing mounted missiles), even if the frame rate is not dropping so much.

 

Do you see the same?

[imacken]

Yep, I'm getting the exact same behavior but at 90Hz. My gfx card doesn't go over 68c and CPU doesn't break 65c. I've begun rebooting my computer before starting a session hoping to clear out anything that may be taking up resources. With this latest beta I've experienced the best visual quality and smoothness since purchase, whether at 204% custom res and everything else at 100% or at 138% DCS Application SS and 148% custom resolution. It looks and feels beautiful at the beginning but steadily degrades as I continue flying exhibiting the above mentioned behavior.

 

I know it doesn't help anyone, but I'm not seeing any of that behaviour.

[Supmua]

All we can do is wait...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4022478&postcount=20

 

At least I won't be doing any fighting while on the ground so it's more of an aesthetic issue. Right now I even have the shadows on low with frametime 18-20ms at low altitude in Dubai which is super. With the 80Hz refresh mode, shimmering is not as bad as higher refresh and for some reason turning on shadows also seems to help a bit. MSAA is off because it causes too much blurriness when looking at the distant and it also reduces the nice reflection on buildings/waters, I also like the TPOD image clarity without MSAA. Cockpit is also sharp (SS at 206%), and looking to the side at low altitude while flying by those tall buildings at high speed is pretty fun.

[Wicked.-]

Do you experience better performance with DCS OB?

 

I'm just using the official release of DCS (and latest beta of SteamVR), I have reduced the graphic settings and the refresh rate to 80 Hz (SS to 204% with MSAA x2). I get nearly constant 40 FPS with MS, and with fpsVR I see that the GPU is not overloaded (at 70%). In any case, I continue seeing ghosting effect on surrounding planes (also in my wing mounted missiles), even if the frame rate is not dropping so much.

 

Do you see the same?

 

I use OB exclusively but the only ghosting or "flittering" is on the canopy hoop or if I'm on the ground and it's busy. But that's after flying for some time. I'll get ghosting if I'm over a lot of trees and rolling the aircraft but it goes away immediately after I look at a less busy part of the screen.

[Wicked.-]

At least I won't be doing any fighting while on the ground so it's more of an aesthetic issue. Right now I even have the shadows on low with frametime 18-20ms at low altitude in Dubai which is super. With the 80Hz refresh mode, shimmering is not as bad as higher refresh and for some reason turning on shadows also seems to help a bit. MSAA is off because it causes too much blurriness when looking at the distant and it also reduces the nice reflection on buildings/waters, I also like the TPOD image clarity without MSAA. Cockpit is also sharp (SS at 206%), and looking to the side at low altitude while flying by those tall buildings at high speed is pretty fun.

 

I can't get past the shimmer but I'll try 80Hz again as I use 90Hz.

[sk000tch]

Yep, I'm getting the exact same behavior but at 90Hz. My gfx card doesn't go over 68c and CPU doesn't break 65c. I've begun rebooting my computer before starting a session hoping to clear out anything that may be taking up resources. With this latest beta I've experienced the best visual quality and smoothness since purchase, whether at 204% custom res and everything else at 100% or at 138% DCS Application SS and 148% custom resolution. It looks and feels beautiful at the beginning but steadily degrades as I continue flying exhibiting the above mentioned behavior.

What are your full settings wicked? We have nearly identical hardware and while I am happy with my setting, I run 60fps for 120hz, and as a result less supersampling. I'd like to compare.

[Wicked.-]

What are your full settings wicked? We have nearly identical hardware and while I am happy with my setting, I run 60fps for 120hz, and as a result less supersampling. I'd like to compare.

 

I'm going back and forth between 204% and the rest 100% and 148% custom resolution/138% DCS application.

 

DCS settings. Textures high, terrain textures high, water high, visibility high, civil traffic off, shadows off, everything else on the left column off except FSAA @ 2x. Grass Clutter 180 (really low), trees 80%, preload maxed 150,000, chimney smoke off, gamma at 1.6. AF @ 16x, terrain shadows off, cockpit global lighting off, rain drops on and full screen on. I thinks that all of them. I'm not at my computer lol.

 

These are the same settings I've kept from my CV1. However, with it I used OTT to set ASW to 45 and SS to 1.6. In DCS I dropped PIxel Density to .5.

[RealDCSpilot]

Just a sidenote, i got a Odyssey+ a couple of days ago (project for work). The display quality is ok, but that's it. I can't get along with the halo headstrap system, it's kind of a different feel how i perceive VR through the Odyssey+. In the Index i have a much better feeling of presence, makes me appreciate Valve's improvements on all those aspects of VR tech even more.

[Johnny Dioxin]

I think this is overall the best consumer headset on the market.

 

I've not tried them all, of course. Not that it matters - I have an Index, I think it's the best solution = happy days!

[Supmua]

I'm back to running 120Hz mode for now, the image quality is more vibrant and brighter than the 80Hz mode for sure--very noticeable flying out of Khasab in early AM compared to carrier deck. The cost is more apparent shimmering (MSAA off), but with shadows on low instead of flat everything looks great especially the shifting shadows in the cockpit and on the ground when making a sharp turn. Typical FPS is now 40 (60 once up high out of Khasab), interestingly 3:1 fill-in isn't that bad and 2:1 fill in at 60 fps in 120Hz feels smoother than at 40 fps in 80Hz mode.

 

I could probably go 90Hz and aim for 45 fps in PG map but that would be impossible on this rig without sacrificing shadows, and shadows are must-have in my games as lightings/shadows/reflections/refractions are crucial parts of what I consider immersive factors.

 

It's too bad that the overall framerate and resolution in VR are still not quite what I want, but as of now it's very playable and definitely more enjoyable than my Vive Pro setup.

[imacken]

I'm back to running 120Hz mode for now, the image quality is more vibrant and brighter than the 80Hz mode for sure--very noticeable flying out of Khasab in early AM compared to carrier deck. The cost is more apparent shimmering (MSAA off), but with shadows on low instead of flat everything looks great especially the shifting shadows in the cockpit and on the ground when making a sharp turn. Typical FPS is now 40 (60 once up high out of Khasab), interestingly 3:1 fill-in isn't that bad and 2:1 fill in at 60 fps in 120Hz feels smoother than at 40 fps in 80Hz mode.

 

I could probably go 90Hz and aim for 45 fps in PG map but that would be impossible on this rig without sacrificing shadows, and shadows are must-have in my games as lightings/shadows/reflections/refractions are crucial parts of what I consider immersive factors.

 

It's too bad that the overall framerate and resolution in VR are still not quite what I want, but as of now it's very playable and definitely more enjoyable than my Vive Pro setup.

 

All this is 'each to his own' really. I get where you are coming from, but for me, I can't do without MSAA, the shimmering is unbearable without for me.

The sacrifice I have to make - at my usual 204 SS and MSAA x2 - is to switch shadows off in the cockpit, which is a real pity.

It seems to be a choice between shimmering and shadows, or no shimmering and no shadows.

It would be really nice not to have to make that choice!

[Johnny Dioxin]

Well this thread was fun and interesting - I usually stay well away from these forums these days, except for those threads concerning my efforts to help as per my sig links, but it was fun then, while it lasted.

 

Unfortunately the inevitable happened and now it's time to vacate the premises for the same reasons.

 

...und tschüß

[Wicked.-]

I'm not a fan of cockpit shadows. To me they look jagged or out of sync and haven't been worth the frame hit. The terrain shadows I don't mind as I never really notice them when they're on or off but again I do notice the frame hit. The shimmering is an immersion killer for me as wel; can't deal with the jaggies.

I would say my big 3 goals with all this tweaking of the Index are: cockpit visual clarity, outside the pit visual clarity when spotting and smooth frame rates regardless of refresh rate. I'll sacrifice the pretty features and eye candy to achieve those goals. I fly exclusively online so connection speeds have to be taken into context when talking smooth frames as well.

Along with DCS fixing whatever has caused the frame drop over the last few patches, I think we'll continue to see improvements from SteamVR as they continue to tweak the driver. Just getting Steam to function as well as Oculus home would make a huge difference.

[sk000tch]

Well this thread was fun and interesting - I usually stay well away from these forums these days, except for those threads concerning my efforts to help as per my sig links, but it was fun then, while it lasted.

 

Unfortunately the inevitable happened and now it's time to vacate the premises for the same reasons.

 

...und tschüß

 

Huh? :confused:

 

I went down to try it out but quickly back to 120hz. I’ve grown accustomed to the smoothness, and also move my head a lot while flying. Not just dogfighting, scanning for traffic and such is hard ha it to break (even if I wanted to)

 

Fortunately I am able to hold 60fps with msaa x2, but I can’t maintain 60 in multi with shadows/water/textures at high, ground shadows flat, and view distance at extreme - much less extreme modified to render objects closer, with SS values at 130 global 120 local (Pd=1). Bit irritating, I’m like 99% of the way there, I just don’t quite have enough machine to draw it that fast...

[Supmua]

Huh? :confused:

 

I went down to try it out but quickly back to 120hz. I’ve grown accustomed to the smoothness, and also move my head a lot while flying. Not just dogfighting, scanning for traffic and such is hard ha it to break (even if I wanted to)

 

Fortunately I am able to hold 60fps with msaa x2, but I can’t maintain 60 in multi with shadows/water/textures at high, ground shadows flat, and view distance at extreme - much less extreme modified to render objects closer, with SS values at 130 global 120 local (Pd=1). Bit irritating, I’m like 99% of the way there, I just don’t quite have enough machine to draw it that fast...

 

The next revision of CPU and GPU might just get you there. Of course, the software complexity probably won't stand still either and ED will likely add extra features to bog down your frame rate once more. With Microsoft and MicroProse returning to the flightsim arena the next few years will be very interesting. I'm hoping the new MS flightsim will support VR as their graphic engine seems pretty incredible.

[Wicked.-]

Huh? :confused:

 

I went down to try it out but quickly back to 120hz. I’ve grown accustomed to the smoothness, and also move my head a lot while flying. Not just dogfighting, scanning for traffic and such is hard ha it to break (even if I wanted to)

 

Fortunately I am able to hold 60fps with msaa x2, but I can’t maintain 60 in multi with shadows/water/textures at high, ground shadows flat, and view distance at extreme - much less extreme modified to render objects closer, with SS values at 130 global 120 local (Pd=1). Bit irritating, I’m like 99% of the way there, I just don’t quite have enough machine to draw it that fast...

 

Lol having the same basic specs as you I shake my head at the fact we can't get what we want out of DCS. It always comes down to DCS only using 1 CPU and 2 threads.

 

And to Brixmis; did I offend?? This has been a very collegial conversation since I joined a couple weeks back. Well, except for my typos ;)