Valve Index Hands On

[imacken]

I’ll test it when I’m home. Like any form of AA, DCS will probably need to be restarted when this setting is changed to see the effect. I just want to see if it has any effect on image quality or FPS or GPU/CPU/temperature.

 

Also picked up bifocal contact lens today. No more reading glasses, gotta love technology.

 

Let us know how you get on. I couldn’t see any difference to anything at all with it switched on.

[Wicked.-]

Guys, thought I would just let you know that I changed my settings and am seeing vastly improved clarity in the cockpit. I increased SS to 250% and switched off MSAA to balance out the extra resource demand, so basically I am getting the same frame times as before.

Of course, there is a bit of shimmering in some buildings on the terrain with MSAA off, but I really feel that sacrifice is worth the additional clarity of the cockpit displays.

 

Which SS are you setting to 250? The Steam DCS program SS, Custom Resolution or the global resolution setting?

 

Thanks,

[imacken]

Which SS are you setting to 250? The Steam DCS program SS, Custom Resolution or the global resolution setting?

 

Thanks,

Kind of weird with SteamVR, as it calls the setting in Applications tab 'custom resolution', and it also calls the setting in Video tab 'custom resolution' although they are 2 different things!

Either way, it's the latter I use.

[Wicked.-]

Kind of weird with SteamVR, as it calls the setting in Applications tab 'custom resolution', and it also calls the setting in Video tab 'custom resolution' although they are 2 different things!

Either way, it's the latter I use.

 

 

Steam definitely provides more options to tinker with than Oculus. I'll be trying this setting shortly.

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

Make sure the SS is specifically for DCS.exe in the SteamVR setting (unless you choose to go with global). You have to run the game in VR first then alt-tab out to SteamVR to make the change (since DCS.exe won’t be selectable until then). Afterward restart DCS as it won’t get applied right away.

[RedX]

SteamVR also makes a difference between dcs.exe and the launcher, so be sure to check that the setting you choose to chsnge applies to the sim exe and not launcher. I initially got this wrong and wondered why nothing changed.

[Supmua]

K, I did about a dozen runs or so back and forth between Advanced Supersample Filtering on vs off until I got sick of it (couldn't really spot the differences in the first few runs). This was on SteamVR beta only and at 90Hz refresh rate. MSAA was off.

 

It sort of reminds me of mild TAA effect. There is very mild shimmering/flickering reduction, but it has more pronounced effect on the jaggedness at the edge of objects (such as buildings in DCS). It makes objects more smooth in appearance, but this in turn causes reduction in contrast and as a result the graphics become more dull and may be a tad more blurry. There is no significant change in FPS that I could see. For me, I'd rather have it off because the game pops more without it.

 

I also found that at 90 Hz refresh rate, the game doesn't play nice whenever FPS drops below 45 FPS (remember this is the SteamVR beta)--tearing/stuttering became prominent and I suspect this is probably why a lot of people are complaining about the beta affecting their gameplay. This happened when I increased the SS to 250% and my FPS dropped into 40s. Lowering it to 200% and the game became smooth for me as FPS was mostly maintained at 45, and even better at 150% in terms of smoothness (this is Downtown Dubai with the Harrier).

 

So the latest SteamVR beta doesn't seem good unless you can maintain relatively decent FPS. I'm going to test this further with other refresh rates on the Index such as 80 and 120 Hz to see if the results are consistent.

[rassy7]

I have absolutely no idea where these reports of good or even moderate FPS are coming from. I've had my index for more than a month and have tried everything and it's just complete and total junk in DCS--absolutely unplayable. In other games, it's fine. Games built for VR, it's amazing. There is no screen door effect, the FOV is great, controllers are the best on Earth, but for DCS, it's a brick strapped to my face.

 

Look at the specs in my signature. They aren't the best, but they're comparable to what others who are reporting FPS of at least 45 are using. The recommendation is to run at 118%, but I'm running 100% resolution globally and on the application. My DCS settings are pretty low too. DCS PD of 1.0.

 

I am dropping frames left and right. Motion smoothing runs so often every line becomes bent if I try to move my head at all. CPU is not OC'd and running at 4.2Gz and 1080 is OC'd slightly through AB's auto scan. Temps are fine all around.

 

I've tried SteamVR and SteamVR beta. Neither makes it better than the other. It's just so, so bad it's impossible to differentiate.

 

This is a shot of the frame timing in SteamVR taxiing. Barely moving, facing forward and it's a sea of red and motion smoothing is more or less permanently on (I do not

have it set to force on, but it is enabled): https://imgur.com/a/AzqJGcE

 

DCS Settings: https://imgur.com/a/NauWwTP

 

There's no point in having great resolution if you have to turn down your game settings so far everything that you actually can see looks like LEGOs.

[Supmua]

Some new observation and I need other people to test this to see if you get the same results.

 

With the SteamVR beta, at 80Hz refresh mode, the FPS is locked (remember, Motion Smoothing ON--you can lock FPS with MS OFF but prepare to see stuttering with the beta). This behavior is the exact same as the non-beta version. I'm getting smooth gameplay, locked at 40 FPS, without stuttering. Interestingly the shimmering artifacts seem to be much less compared to higher refresh mode as well (although the image quality is less vibrant). I also tested 120Hz refresh mode and it was basically the same as the 90Hz mode. For some reason, the beta seems to spare the 80Hz mode in terms of throttling behavior--at least on my test.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Supmua

[Supmua]

I have absolutely no idea where these reports of good or even moderate FPS are coming from. I've had my index for more than a month and have tried everything and it's just complete and total junk in DCS--absolutely unplayable. In other games, it's fine. Games built for VR, it's amazing. There is no screen door effect, the FOV is great, controllers are the best on Earth, but for DCS, it's a brick strapped to my face.

 

Look at the specs in my signature. They aren't the best, but they're comparable to what others who are reporting FPS of at least 45 are using. The recommendation is to run at 118%, but I'm running 100% resolution globally and on the application. My DCS settings are pretty low too. DCS PD of 1.0.

 

I am dropping frames left and right. Motion smoothing runs so often every line becomes bent if I try to move my head at all. CPU is not OC'd and running at 4.2Gz and 1080 is OC'd slightly through AB's auto scan. Temps are fine all around.

 

I've tried SteamVR and SteamVR beta. Neither makes it better than the other. It's just so, so bad it's impossible to differentiate.

 

This is a shot of the frame timing in SteamVR taxiing. Barely moving, facing forward and it's a sea of red and motion smoothing is more or less permanently on (I do not

have it set to force on, but it is enabled): https://imgur.com/a/AzqJGcE

 

DCS Settings: https://imgur.com/a/NauWwTP

 

There's no point in having great resolution if you have to turn down your game settings so far everything that you actually can see looks like LEGOs.

 

 

If you're here to complain, I hear you and I agree that DCS VR isn't for everybody. DCS isn't optimized for VR. This is the general concensus, and you need a beefy rig to make the most out of it.

 

But if you need some guidance, https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4003897&postcount=721

 

CPU should be overclocked, the 7700K should be able to hit 4.6-4.7GHZ comfortably unless your cooler isn't up to the task. I have similar setup hooked up to a 4K TV which runs fine, but I'm not happy with its performance in VR at the graphic settings that I wanted to run.

[rassy7]

But if you need some guidance, https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4003897&postcount=721

 

Thanks. I read through this. You're right, those are the steps. Unfortunately, they're some of a large number of steps I've tried for the better part of this last month. It's true, VR in DCS is relatively crap, but with the CV-1, I could run PD 1.5 and most of the graphics settings cranked up no problem. The same settings with the index turned the game into a slideshow. I systematically rolled back everything in every way, one by one, trying different combinations and the only halfway usable version I can reach with the index looks way worse than smooth settings in the Rift.

 

My machine should be able to run the index decently in DCS and I'm reading here and other places about how people are running it well (with very similar specs to mine). That's what frustrating. Either they're all lying or I'm missing something. Pretty much hit a wall with testing. Not sure where to go next. Perhaps an I7-7700K and an overclocked 1080 aren't enough to make the index usable in DCS. If that's reality, it's information people reading this and making decisions from it should have.

[Supmua]

Thanks. I read through this. You're right, those are the steps. Unfortunately, they're some of a large number of steps I've tried for the better part of this last month. It's true, VR in DCS is relatively crap, but with the CV-1, I could run PD 1.5 and most of the graphics settings cranked up no problem. The same settings with the index turned the game into a slideshow. I systematically rolled back everything in every way, one by one, trying different combinations and the only halfway usable version I can reach with the index looks way worse than smooth settings in the Rift.

 

My machine should be able to run the index decently in DCS and I'm reading here and other places about how people are running it well (with very similar specs to mine). That's what frustrating. Either they're all lying or I'm missing something. Pretty much hit a wall with testing. Not sure where to go next. Perhaps an I7-7700K and an overclocked 1080 aren't enough to make the index usable in DCS. If that's reality, it's information people reading this and making decisions from it should have.

 

There is no magic bullet here. The frame rate you get depends on the *final rendering resolution* and how you set up DCS as well as SteamVR settings. You can also try benchmarking your PC with 3DMARK VR and compare the numbers to similar setups and see if it makes sense. If you get expected numbers from standard benchmarking program and it doesn't seem to match with other people's DCS numbers then they're probably not telling the truth. There are people who claimed smooth framerate with PD of 2.0 (which is insane, 200% rendering resolution in both X and Y axis)--smooth in this case is a very relative term.

 

My VR rig, for example, can't take PD 1.5 (with SteamVR 100%) at my current settings since the final rendering resolution would be 6048x3321 (20m pixels). I'm currently running SteamVR 200% (with PD 1.0) which is equivalent to 5696x3168 (18m pixels) and gives me acceptable frame rate at 45 fps (sometimes less) in Dubai [This is with the latest beta with certain issues, with the stable version I get 40.5 on average]. SteamVR at 250% is even worse than PD 1.5 at 6376x3540, this would tank my fps into 40 or lower. Now you see why VR would be much more taxing than a 4K screen with resolution of 3840x2160. Keep in mind that the FPS I'm talking about is in extreme case here when flying low in Dubai. If you are high up in the air, the number goes much higher. You also can't directly compare PD between 2 different headsets since the starting resolutions are quite different. The same PD number on the Reverb, for example, will yield much higher resolution than the Index.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Supmua

[Wicked.-]

Thanks. I read through this. You're right, those are the steps. Unfortunately, they're some of a large number of steps I've tried for the better part of this last month. It's true, VR in DCS is relatively crap, but with the CV-1, I could run PD 1.5 and most of the graphics settings cranked up no problem. The same settings with the index turned the game into a slideshow. I systematically rolled back everything in every way, one by one, trying different combinations and the only halfway usable version I can reach with the index looks way worse than smooth settings in the Rift.

 

My machine should be able to run the index decently in DCS and I'm reading here and other places about how people are running it well (with very similar specs to mine). That's what frustrating. Either they're all lying or I'm missing something. Pretty much hit a wall with testing. Not sure where to go next. Perhaps an I7-7700K and an overclocked 1080 aren't enough to make the index usable in DCS. If that's reality, it's information people reading this and making decisions from it should have.

 

I'm coming from a CV1 and initially I wasn't impressed with the Index either. I've since made some adjustments that helped with clarity but I can't be absolutely sure those adjustments made the difference. With the Rift I ran it at 1.6PD and FSAA @ 2X without shadows and everything else high. Rock solid smooth at 45 frames per second unless on a really active MP server. That was on an i7 7700 at stock speed, 32GB memory, 1080Ti @ 1.9Ghz and M.2 drive. I've since upgraded to i9 9900k at 5.1Ghz, 64GB memory, 2080Ti OC @ 1.9Ghz and only got 8FPS increase in minimum FPS which is all that matters.

I have stable FPS at 45 using 90Hz. I have custom resolution set to 204% in the steam video tab, in game PD @1.0 and Application resolution at 100%. Try those settings but @ 180% instead of 204% and see how it runs if you haven't already tried it.

As far as clarity goes, I changed my cockpit view position in the 18 and now I can read the MPCD without leaning in or zooming and I could never do that with the CV1. Good luck.

[Wicked.-]

Guys, thought I would just let you know that I changed my settings and am seeing vastly improved clarity in the cockpit. I increased SS to 250% and switched off MSAA to balance out the extra resource demand, so basically I am getting the same frame times as before.

Of course, there is a bit of shimmering in some buildings on the terrain with MSAA off, but I really feel that sacrifice is worth the additional clarity of the cockpit displays.

 

Unfortunately it didn't work for me. 250% was too much and I was dropping into the 30's a lot with Refresh set to 90. I'm currently doing the 204% with FSAA at 2x and it's pretty solid at 45FPS. Also, there was still too much shimmer for me without the FSAA. I really wish I didn't have to use that.

[Nahemoth]

Today they will release a new SteamVR beta that will solve the problems with MS feature....

 

https://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/1599262707997233111

[RealDCSpilot]

Yay!

They also adressed the vertical SDE issue.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Alec Delorean

[imacken]

Yep, this is great news. All the MS issues are now solved and with the firmware update and Column Correction settings now available, it's all looking good!

[imacken]

Anyone actually tried the Column Correction sliders yet?

[Supmua]

Valve Index Hands On

 

A nice surprise is headset’s brightness adjustment. This is huge for games that do not provide this option in the local settings. Gamma and individual RGB color adjustment option would’ve been better but this is a step in the right direction from Valve. A killer option would be a filter layer that would allow sharpness and clarity adjustment which might negate the need for supersampling.

[kmw072671]

Well I'm also having the same problems as most of you are reporting with terrible FPS performance. I was getting a solid 45 FPS with my Index the last couple weeks and now with same settings everything is down to 30 FPS or less - its just not playable in VR anymore.

 

I have a decent machine I7-9700 OC 4.5, RTX 2080Ti OC, 32 GB but DCS just is not performing in VR. Steam VR is still on 1.6.10

 

My settings are 100% resolution in Steam, PD of 1.3 in DCS, MSAA 2X, high on most other settings. I have tried changing settings to PD of 1.0 and 150% in Steam but still poor FPS.

 

Not sure why suddenly DCS is a dog in VR?

[Wicked.-]

Is there a way to adjust the brightness without controllers?

[Nahemoth]

Well I'm also having the same problems as most of you are reporting with terrible FPS performance. I was getting a solid 45 FPS with my Index the last couple weeks and now with same settings everything is down to 30 FPS or less - its just not playable in VR anymore.

 

I have a decent machine I7-9700 OC 4.5, RTX 2080Ti OC, 32 GB but DCS just is not performing in VR. Steam VR is still on 1.6.10

 

My settings are 100% resolution in Steam, PD of 1.3 in DCS, MSAA 2X, high on most other settings. I have tried changing settings to PD of 1.0 and 150% in Steam but still poor FPS.

 

Not sure why suddenly DCS is a dog in VR?

 

I have a similar equipment and I'm also getting poor performance, even with the latest beta version. Using MS in a dogfight performs quite bad, there are a lot of ghosting and jumping effects in the airplanes. Without MS it's like you are drunk inside the cabin...

[dburne]

I think perhaps Steam VR is getting rather bloated.

I have another game that requires Steam VR, and with my Rift S I found running Open Composite for the Rift rather than Steam VR gave me way better performance in that game.

 

But Open Composite is only for Rift or Rift S so does not help with the Index, just sharing the performance hit I seemed to take with using Steam VR. It did not used to be as big a hit as it is now.

[fredclan]

where do you access headset brightness or column correction and what is column correction?

 

thx

[Baldrick33]

where do you access headset brightness or column correction and what is column correction?

 

thx

It is the SteamVR overlay (press the button on the bottom of the Index headset.

 

You need a controller though and the xbox controller doesn't seem to work for me