Why does Jester give bad info and then correct himself?

[key_stroked]

Was this an attempt to make him seem more human? I was in TWS Auto, and he hooked a track that was 135nm away, which I could clearly see in the TID repeater.

When he called it out though, he said, "bandit, 350, 175 miles....no, scratch that, 135 miles".

 

Doesn't seem realistic that a trained RIO would misread a clearly labeled contact range on the instruments by 40 miles, which is a huge margin of error.

 

Can we get an option in the settings to turn this "random error" feature off? I want a simulated RIO that gives me the correct info all the time, especially if it's staring him right in the face.

[backspace340]

Could be worse, think I once had '148,000 feet, scratch that, 1,000 feet'.

[razo+r]

I can see the wish for a perfect RIO, but before you do that, think about one thing. Have you never misread anything once?

 

but ofc, maybe tune the difference a bit down.

[key_stroked]

I can see the wish for a perfect RIO, but before you do that, think about one thing. Have you never misread anything once?

 

Not while doing RIO for another player. I'm reading off the display. It's 3 numbers at most, and I'm not even trained by the Navy.

 

The frequency and volume of mistakes that Jester makes ruins the F-14 experience a bit for me.

[QuiGon]

It's not a bug, it's a feature and a good one IMHO. HB promised, that Jester would not be a cheating super AI kind of thing, but instead tries to mimic a human being as much as possible, which includes making mistakes like humans do too. It also adds to the immersion.

Of course, you can argue if he makes too many or too obvious mistakes, but all in all I think HB did a great job with that. If Jester was perfect and unfailable that would be a huge issue for me, because then he would be the unatural super AI that he wasn't supposed to be and would make human RIOs superfluous.

[key_stroked]

It's not a bug, it's a feature and a good one IMHO. HB promised, that Jester would not be a cheating super AI kind of thing, but instead tries to mimic a human being as much as possible, which includes making mistakes like humans do too. It also adds to the immersion.

Of course, you can argue if he makes too many or too obvious mistakes, but all in all I think HB did a great job with that. If Jester was perfect and unfailable that would be a huge issue for me, because then he would be the unatural super AI that he wasn't supposed to be and would make human RIOs superfluous.

 

I never called it a bug, and I disagree that it adds immersion. Swapping around two numbers is something I could believe, but not what Jester currently does. The error feels too artificial.

 

I also don't think that correctly calling out ranges turns Jester into an "unnatural super AI".

 

Anyway, I suggested they give us the option to turn it off, so people can choose the realism setting they want.

[QuiGon]

I never called it a bug, and I disagree that it adds immersion. Swapping around two numbers is something I could believe, but not what Jester currently does. The error feels too artificial.

Well, it does add immersion for me as it makes Jester feel less like a robot.

 

 

I also don't think that correctly calling out ranges turns Jester into an "unnatural super AI".

Never making any mistakes would be quite unnatural and robot like.

 

 

Anyway, I suggested they give us the option to turn it off, so people can choose the realism setting they want.

Sure, that's fine for SP, but I don't want to fight against supernatural Jesters in MP.

[umkhunto]

To be frank, current Jester would have to come a very-very long way before he's even on par with a brand new human that basically just gets how the HCU works, let alone to being supernatural.

[QuiGon]

To be frank, current Jester would have to come a very-very long way before he's even on par with a brand new human that basically just gets how the HCU works, let alone to being supernatural.

True, but we currently only have the very first initial public Jester implementation. HB will add more and more capabilities in time. Just because there are still many abilities missing doesn't mean that the current Jester abillities should be made superhuman to compensate for missing abilities that will come later.

[Airhunter]

Yeah, I don't like that design choice at all. As of right now he's very limited in the things he can do or how he can adapt to certain situations. The only thing he is good at is "spotting" enemies and rockets....

[key_stroked]

 

 

Sure, that's fine for SP, but I don't want to fight against supernatural Jesters in MP.

 

You're suggesting that Jester correctly calling out a range that I can see anyway will make him supernatural and upset the multiplayer balance?

 

That is absolutely absurd. Lol. I'm actually laughing out loud from that.

[QuiGon]

You're suggesting that Jester correctly calling out a range that I can see anyway will make him supernatural and upset the multiplayer balance?

 

That is absolutely absurd. Lol. I'm actually laughing out loud from that.

No, you intentionally missunderstood me again. I said making him free of any mistakes and 100% reliable is supernatural, because humans do make mistakes and are not 100% reliable. Real RIOs/WSOs/Pilots also do make mistakes when setting switches in the cockpit (e.g. forgetting to activaate the correct pylon or setting a wrong one), which Jester doesn't do, so he's already much more reliable than a human.

Edited June 5, 2019 by QuiGon

[Zeagle]

I think they named him wrong. It should have been "Goose".

[Brigg]

Goose is dead man, we need to move on :). Although I do think it would be cool if the player could rename his Rio. Not gonna lie it probably would be Goose :megalol:

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Not while doing RIO for another player. I'm reading off the display. It's 3 numbers at most, and I'm not even trained by the Navy.

 

The frequency and volume of mistakes that Jester makes ruins the F-14 experience a bit for me.

 

Dont you think you are exagerating a bit man??...in any case I would think the opposite...making an absurdly robotic AI would "ruin" the experience...It is part of the effort HB has made to try to humanize Jester and I personally LOVE IT!!!

[Extranajero]

I normally hate interacting with 'humans' that are really computer programs. I fully expected to switch Jester off after my first test hop in the F-14.

 

But he's grown on me now to the point where I don't mind the little feller at all.

How much use he is - that's debateable, but he's never too annoying.

[Voyager]

I'm given to understand the frequency of it is turned up at the moment while the module is finishing out, and it will be dialed back a bit in the future.

 

Honestly, I rather like it.

[fl0w]

We've hit an all-time low to be complaining about an AI consciously making mistakes and then correcting themselves. Is this where we argue the realism v. i-dont-like-it crowds?

Edited June 5, 2019 by Sirius
grammar

[key_stroked]

Why is it every time someone wants to discuss a feature of a product they own, they're branded a "complainer"?

 

Am I not allowed to talk about things on the aircraft I wish were changed or different? Did you see me typing in all caps and lacing my OP with profanity?

 

It's no wonder people go to 3rd party websites like Hoggit to discuss stuff, because people on here will attack every aspect of what you write.

 

You say it's an all-time low. I say it's feedback to make the product better.

[r4y30n]

I think there's an important distinction between "Jester shouldn't make range mistakes" and "Jester shouldn't make mistakes." OP is suggesting the former, others are suggesting the latter. I agree with OP though I can also see making mistakes when reading range of an unhooked target on the DDD. It's possible Jester's behavior is simulating that because he can't distinguish between hooked vs unhooked at present.

[fl0w]

Why is it every time someone wants to discuss a feature of a product they own, they're branded a "complainer"?

 

Am I not allowed to talk about things on the aircraft I wish were changed or different? Did you see me typing in all caps and lacing my OP with profanity?

 

It's no wonder people go to 3rd party websites like Hoggit to discuss stuff, because people on here will attack every aspect of what you write.

 

You say it's an all-time low. I say it's feedback to make the product better.

 

The same feedback you're providing is a few people's opinions compared to the masses. This feature was hoped for by many Heatblur fanboys because of the realism buffer, just like a pilot body, good textures, accurate FM, and it goes on and on. If you're telling me that throughout your whole time in DCS, you've never messed up a single thing on your comms for targets, ranges, airfields, etc. compared to when JESTER is giving a range on some nails, then I guess you have a reason to complain.

 

BTW, Hoggit has it much worse than the forums. You've got it flipped around. ;)

[Blinde]

True, but we currently only have the very first initial public Jester implementation. HB will add more and more capabilities in time. Just because there are still many abilities missing doesn't mean that the current Jester abillities should be made superhuman to compensate for missing abilities that will come later.

To be honest, I don't believe that Jester gets so much more options and features. Better target acquiring and locking, yes. A bit more comms work with ATC, maybe.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Blinde

[QuiGon]

To be honest, I don't believe that Jester gets so much more options and features. Better target acquiring and locking, yes. A bit more comms work with ATC, maybe.

Uhm, no, Jester is supposed to get a whole bunch of new abilities in the feature. This includes stuff like using other radar modes besides TWS as well as being able to use the LANTIRN. But it doesn't end there, because AFAIK Jester will be used for other multicrew aircraft by HB, so Jester will grow to be an AI plattform with a broad range of capabilities that can be adapted to different aircraft.

[Jeepyb]

 

Doesn't seem realistic that a trained RIO would misread a clearly labeled contact range on the instruments by 40 miles, which is a huge margin of error.

 

 

I suggest you join a group that does realistic comms and procedures. Add to that a mission that will give you some degree of task saturation; You will make lots of mistakes like this. Everybody does. The pros IRL do too. People make mistakes when they speak on the radio and as long as they are able to catch them, it is just an accepted fact of life.

 

I find this feature very realistic. I don't fly jets but I work in a GCI unit and I hear mistakes like this all the time from both pilots in the middle of complex engagements and my crew members sitting comfortably at their workstation with AC.

 

I'm sure even the most experienced RIO still would have had to say "correction" on the intercom a couple of times per flight.

[Los]

"I'm sure even the most experienced RIO still would have had to say "correction" on the intercom a couple of times per flight."

 

Thanks for spelling out something that should be self evident to anyone that's spent more than a few minutes around Humans....:pilotfly: