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What do you all think?


centermass

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Why is dumping fuel cheating?

 

He runs the risk of running out of fuel during the fight and then loosing. The other side just has to keep him out of his six for a while longer and he dies - plus both sides can do it!

 

Very true, but the F-15's corner speed in this game is around 250 to 300 knts. This can be achieved with almost full aft stick deflection at max burner.

 

So if your cornering and the above speeds and the opponent drops fuel he is going to be full aft stick deflection still out cornering you at around the same speed. Your options are to extend, exchange high aspect shots, or to try and keep out-cornering the bandit which you will lose. If you extend the G modeling will not allow you to turn back into the bandit hard, usually split-S is the only option if the bandit does not watch closure and bandit airspeed.

 

If you try and extend into the vertical he has the advantage because he can climb faster and will may use the zoom to make the shot easier at those ranges.

 

I do not dump fuel but I do get into the burner before the merge, this reduces fuel and gives me the option to use the vertical. I rarely use burner and air brake at the same time.

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quote centermass: Nowhere have I seen in any manual that dropping fuel is a part of BFM.

 

 

so i guess dropping your external fueltanks is cheating also ?

 

Dropping tanks is where you get your jet able to maneuver not only for BFM, but for SAM or A-A missile evasion. Depending on the situation.

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Enough with the bickering or this thread goes the way of the others on the subject.

 

Unfortunately this thread has gone to cheating opposed to if they would agree or disagree that the options I mentioned would be helpful or not needed and why they think that way.

 

Hopefully it will get back on track. This is intended mainly for those who play multiplayer.

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Why is dumping fuel cheating?

 

He runs the risk of running out of fuel during the fight and then loosing. The other side just has to keep him out of his six for a while longer and he dies - plus both sides can do it!

 

very true...

No longer active in DCS...

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Certainly an valid move if it's an artificial set-up - starting in the air, agreed meet-up, or requiring co-ordination between the 2 sides to meet at a certain place. If you don't like that the fuel-dumping is too gamey, just make up additional rules - landing at designated bases, minimum fuel percentages etc.

 

Chalk that up as a legitmate win for your opponent and get back in the air to have more fun. Pfft, let him have his win - we don't need no steenking lawyers to re-argue everything. How much money did he take from you?

 

Not valid if it's part of a mission where the pilot would be expected to get back to base with as much fuel as possible. This makes an assumption that, in the mission, there's the reasonable fiction of a full theatre of war.

ZoomBoy

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What's wrong with dumping fuel during a mission?? I do it all the time I find out SAMs are gaining on me...:(

Enough so that you'd crash-land or flame-out and die?

It's not valid to where you're dump fuel knowing that you expect to crashland with a risk of death.

Or we mixing up an artificial head-to-head with the real life contingencies of making it back to base both with fuel and alive. There are are also different RL levels of success that we're willing to accept in RL. You've dumped fuel(with a dangerous crash-landing expected) but eject to safety in your own territory - I'd chalk up as a win in RL. But it'd be a loss in the sort of competition the OP was talking about

My message was the artificiality of the OP's forces a series of rules that pull it further away from asking what's real to merely what's legal or ethical. Makes new rules and move on.

ZoomBoy

My Flight Sims Page

- Link to My Blog - Sims and Things - DCS Stuff++

- Up-to-Speed Guides to the old Lockon A10A and Su-25T

- Some missions [needs update]

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Well if you agree to 40% fuel for the flanker.... it's kinda lame to drop it to get less fuel.

 

This sums it up. It is lame. If players agree on a fuel load they stick to it.

 

This is why when i used to fly gunzo alot I used to say.."Take what you think you need to win"

 

Much more fun imo.

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peace

 

This sums it up. It is lame. If players agree on a fuel load they stick to it.

 

This is why when i used to fly gunzo alot I used to say.."Take what you think you need to win"

 

Much more fun imo.

 

Then i will use 20% with dropfuel makro .... ok? :smartass: and my slider on my x52 i will use as Zoom MAX so i really can do it well with no energy left *hehe

energymanagement?.....or risk?...neeeee :)

or complicated BFM logic neee*

lets make use "all you can" - this is war GAME <<<< here the mistake is born

 

The reason why ROE exists are to force conditions of fairness, so just Skill decides at the end.....

another reason can be trainings setups......

 

The MOST important reason is HONOR and Respect !!! << it is ok if that will not be understood.

 

If all here is really just bout the win ---- like the philosphie, who cares the way or the story, the world with watch the result....

 

then i will free to use all to win.....but i guess i will feel not good

 

does this make sense?

 

In peace ..over

 

(and ICE i understant your point....you think...they will not give a ..... so let it be open and free )

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Too ensure fairness it is good for both players to agree pre flight to both record tracks, and both send each other their tracks. Then you can check if the other one is using something fishy like dumping fuel an stuff.

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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dare I ask that the somewhat "conclusion" to this "cheating or not?" dilema with hacking into RAM data is not what was really happening but rather that in these setup gunz-only dogfights people were dumping fuel, or taking very limited amount of it, in order to keep the aircraft as light as possible, hence have the edge in turns and power/weight ratio?

 

Most definitely if both fly same aircraft and one takes full fuel and other just a portion of its fuel capacity surely the one with less fuel will have the edge (unless he's crappy pilot to begin with). The Su-27 holds almost 10T of fuel and surely having few thousand Kg off the weight helps a lot...

 

I'm glad this is over now and I feel easier to breathe knowing no one is hacking into RAM (at least I hope so) as if... that would be really sad...

No longer active in DCS...

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Guys, for me it is a question of SPORTIVE attitude.

and to be honest it is the way to learn and improve yer self, and make the comunity knowledge growing up.

 

I M TALKING ABOUT 1 VS 1 engagement.

both pilot agree for a same amount of fuel (flanker40% eagle52%, tht give balance beetween manoeuvrability and lenght of flight)

after this pilots have to manage them flight, if one of them dump fuel the other one just have to fly away and wait the DUMPER to flame out, bah.... do you call that a good dogfight , me not......

 

for me the guy who dump fuel is a cheater, he will just try to put his nose on you each single turn and shoot shoot, bah it is a cow boy attitude , poker stuff in head on situation, tht sux for me....

 

you ll clearly see this kind of pilot always flying the same way, GUN GUN GUN HEAD ON release lil ,full pull GUN GUN GUN head on .....absolutly no brain , no strategy no knowledge about art of flying.

dat why i think it is a crap way to fly.

I saw so much pilot trying to change the fuel payload , dropping flare chafft, canopy wings lol....and to be honest they was not flying good.

pity those guys arguing anything about skill after ROFL.....

experience pilot feel imediatly when something is wrong in front, dont dream , i feel a 2 % difference on the fuel load ;)

dat why so rude post before about what you know

 

MEN you wanna learn you wanna have fun, fly clean :smilewink:

i dont care about recording track or other , i just want fly good stuff with honest men

 

PaP see ya soon in sky.

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So to recap...

The Lock On 10 Crack Commandments!

1 No ECM Cycling

2 No Launch of more then one Missile at a time

3 No Fuel Venting

4 No Counter Measure deployment

5 No Views outside the desktop cockpit

6 No Padlock

7 No G lock

8 No AWACS

9 No Labels

10 No Advantages

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My mission is to fly, fight, and win. o-:|:-o What I do is sometimes get a tin of soup, heat it up, poach an egg in it, serve that with a pork pie sausage roll.

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Guest 14 Dead Men
How ominous.

Dude I'm not threatning, I just want to add my part to the LOMAC community :)

 

I will release a very cool app when BS has been released.

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Dude I'm not threatning, I just want to add my part to the LOMAC community :)

 

I will release a very cool app when BS has been released.

 

This "part" we could well do without.

 

I see history repeating itself - Janes F18 / Rudel Saga.

 

Making "available" an application that means anyone can hack Lock On is criminial. So I just hope for your sake that is not what you plan to do.

 

If I was working for Eagle Dynamics I would already be gathering Evidence to use later just in case legal action could be taken.

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When I've finished having my fun I have a big shock for the LOMAC community.

 

Unfortunatly its not a shock. FOr anyone who have played LOMAC ever since it was launched will sure to remenber some strange events hapening from time to time. I have observed R-73 Shlems backwards for years perhaps about 5 or 6 times, once every few months. As you can see, its been arround for quite some time but I had no proof on how this and other things could be donne and as such I kept quiet about it. Frankly I didnt want to know because I knew it could be hacked then just not sure how exactly. The least people would find out in the future the better. Me included.

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Guest 14 Dead Men
This "part" we could well do without.

 

I see history repeating itself - Janes F18 / Rudel Saga.

 

Making "available" an application that means anyone can hack Lock On is criminial. So I just hope for your sake that is not what you plan to do.

 

If I was working for Eagle Dynamics I would already be gathering Evidence to use later just in case legal action could be taken.

 

I'm not hacking anything and what I'm building is not illegal and neither is the program.

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