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Soviet-Afghan Air war


Geier

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This might be a good place to ask this. There was a piece on History chan or something back a few years ago where the guy was talking about a 14 yr old kid taking on a Hind in the Soviet-Afgan war I've been trying to figure out the episode name. If anyone remembers the one let me know.

"I know Not that which you have said, but if I had medication I would (Robin Williams)"

 

 

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What I find particularly galling about watching Stingers being launched at the Russians in Afghanistan is knowing that they were paid for with money gained through selling heroin to western europe's teens, & that the people selling them the weapons knew this, but were more interested in irritating the USSR than in the well-being of Europe's children

Cheers.

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What I find particularly galling about watching Stingers being launched at the Russians in Afghanistan is knowing that they were paid for with money gained through selling heroin to western europe's teens, & that the people selling them the weapons knew this, but were more interested in irritating the USSR than in the well-being of Europe's children

 

Nope totally incorrect, the stingers were provided by the CIA for free. Also one of the larger AAA guns that the Mujahedin had was actually bought using donations from the local tribes and it was purchased in China. Another large investor was Osama Bin Laden who collected support in the middle east and funneled it into Afghanistan. CIA also paid for training advisors to train the Mujahedin in how to use the Stingers which was quite an involved process because of the culture. I don't think that heroin was used as much back then as it is now for money to support them as most of the locals were buisy fighting the soviets back then.

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Maybe because the Russians had read their history books & knew that trying to bomb & shell the Afghans into submission would only breed more fighters & was doomed to fail.

As NATO commanders have been trying to point out in the last few months - you can't win hearts & minds by bombing wedding processions.

 

to Sub17:

 

Specifically, the CIA played a major role in channeling weapons to anti-Soviet fighters in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s, funded in large part by the illegal sale of opium. This started with the CIA’s turning a blind eye to drug trafficking by the rebels, but eventually escalated to the point where the CIA was actively encouraging the production of heroin through its Pakistani counterpart, the ISI. In time, drug sales would be used to boost CIA-ISI coffers in their covert war against the Russians.

Source: The Drug War and Terrorism. Scott McPherson January 2004

 

or

 

CIA-supported mujahedeen engaged heavily in drug trafficking while fighting against the Soviet-supported government and its plans to reform the very backward Afghan society. The CIA's principal client was Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the leading druglords and a major heroin refiner. CIA-supplied trucks and mules, which had carried arms into Afghanistan, were used to transport opium to laboratories along the Afghan/Pakistan border. They provided up to half of the heroin used annually in the U.S. and three-quarters of that used in Western Europe.

Source: William Blum, A Brief History of CIA Involvement in the Drug Trade, 1997.

Cheers.

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Looking at the pictures in this thread - It always amazes me how the Russians seem to treat even their most high tech weapons systems like agricultural equipment - chuck a tarp over the canopy to keep the frost off (or stop the seat geting hot:-) & 'She'll be right'

Cheers.

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Maybe because the Russians had read their history books & knew that trying to bomb & shell the Afghans into submission would only breed more fighters & was doomed to fail.

As NATO commanders have been trying to point out in the last few months - you can't win hearts & minds by bombing wedding processions.

 

to Sub17:

 

 

Source: The Drug War and Terrorism. Scott McPherson January 2004

 

or

 

 

Source: William Blum, A Brief History of CIA Involvement in the Drug Trade, 1997.

 

Heroin did not pay for the Stingers as I mentioned they were given them because at the time the world was divided Comunism vs the West. The US wanted to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan. And it also gave them an opportunity to test the Stingers technology against Soviet aircraft. Although drugs probably were used to help fund the war most of their funding came from charity donations in the middle east. I suggest you read CQB and also a book about al qaeda by a British journalist which goes into detail and how alot of that stuff started. I doubt they paid the CIA much back then its more likely that the CIA was paying them.

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It is obvious Soviets were stupid not fighting this war seriously!

 

Their financial involvement was about five times less than US effort in Vietnam. USSR's material losses were ridiculous compared to US ones. For example fixed-wing aircraft combat losses were 2480 in Vietnam and 118 in Afghanistan and destroyed rotary-wing crafts were about 5000 and 333 respectively. It means Americans made an aerial losses of 15 to 20 times bigger than Soviets!

 

Soviet rulers simply waged that war at unthinkably low level. It seems Soviet Army acted like ancient Roman legions guarding Rhine limes but without enough experience in that job! I can't understand:

 

- Why didn't the Reds deploy several hundred combat planes on this theater like Americans, who fielded 713 such USAF planes (without USN and USMC ones!) throughout South-East Asia in 1968.

 

- Why didn't the Reds begin massive bombing campaign against rebel bases in Afghansitan and their sanctuaries in Pakistan using PGMs?

 

- Why didn't the Reds blackmail Pakistanis with war on two fronts together with India?

 

Anyway the best joke I have ever heard is that USSR fell due to economic crisis caused by Afghanistan War ("worse than Vietnam")! This theory is now very popular in Poland. :lol:

 

Higher aircraft combat losses in Vietnam were due to the fact they were facing Nth Vietnam and Chinas air force. The war in Afghanistan did involve a few fights between Pakistans Air force and the Soviets on the border. It wasn't Afghanistan that caused the fall of communism in Russia it was that people realised that they were being lied to by their Government and it lost its integrity. In communism the guy at the top earns all the money and everyone else is poor.

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As to why no PGM use in the stan by the soviets. A couple of reasons really. All attention was directed towards the central front… things were pretty hot in those days. Early 80's was when the operational balance of power shifted to the west as ALCM and M1A1 came online. In the east, the strategic rocket forces deployed Topol in significant numbers. Which elevated paranoia to a level unheard of before

 

Theres no way VVS would have dipped into the central front stocks to fight a 'bush fire' war against 'savages'. And more importantly the army wouldn’t have let them (all services are subordinate to the army in russian operational planning).

 

What high value targets would have nessicated the use of PGM's anyway? No infrastructure to speak of, no fixed C2 facilties etc etc.

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There are even organisations that support the cultivation of poppy plants down there, they say so the people can afford to grwo real crops, what a bag of bull. Let the NATO allies chime in and napalm the poppy fields. But noooo, real drugs aren't important, is stead they're going after weed plantations, and no one ever got addicted to weed or die of an overdose from it, so go figure. :disgust:

 

Are there videos of Soviet planes getting hit by Stingers? I remember hat at the beginning (first few months) the Mujahadeen were quite succesful at damaging and bringing down Soviet aircraft.

Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:

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Yep, then they changed tactics and started flying higher and dispensing flares pre-emptively, which made the Stinger much less effective ... but on the other hand, it made the attack runs by the aircraft less effective, too.

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Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Yep, then they changed tactics and started flying higher and dispensing flares pre-emptively, which made the Stinger much less effective ... but on the other hand, it made the attack runs by the aircraft less effective, too.

 

Oh no))) you're not right at all)))) Do you know the chief of 378 OShAP - his name Rutskoy? And do you know the tactic he introduced during the 87-88?;)

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Yep, then they changed tactics and started flying higher and dispensing flares pre-emptively, which made the Stinger much less effective ... but on the other hand, it made the attack runs by the aircraft less effective, too.

 

I know that the Mujahedin had Stingers at a base and got caught by a dawn raid by Hind gunships doing a low level attack. Once they had fired their rockets they just hovered and used the gun. Quite effective but the Mujahedin were still learning how to use the Stinger back then and they were still in their boxes when the Hinds arrived.:doh:

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