Nealius Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) As title, pressing the autopilot emergency disconnect / paddle switch disables both autopilot and pitch/roll SAS. NATOPS specifically mentions, no less than three times, that the "pitch and roll SAS switches will remain engaged" when the paddle is depressed. Pages 2-110, 2-137, and 17-18. Edited July 8, 2019 by IronMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Flo- Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 This applies to DFCS-equipped aircraft. The pitch and roll SAS servos on AFCS-Tomcats, as modelled by HB, are disengaged while the paddle is held depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 The -B model NATOPS for DFCS aircraft still says that the pitch/roll SAS switches do not disengage when the paddle switch is pressed (or held). Even if they are to be disengaged when the paddle is held, I am only pressing it momentarily, not holding it depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 This applies to DFCS-equipped aircraft. The pitch and roll SAS servos on AFCS-Tomcats, as modelled by HB, are disengaged while the paddle is held depressed. Which is different than just tapping it and IIRC the way you described it is the way it is explained in some legendary manuals we shall not mention anymore. I understand it like this: Hold paddle depressed: SAS channels disengage, AP disengages by depressing (probably actually it disengages because the SAS channels are taken off, because that also happens when you disable them manually) Release paddle: SAS channels reengage Could be wrong though. But just by logics. This is an EMERGENCY disengage paddle for the AP (or A/P, whichever you'd rather). The worst thing you can get in an emergency is having your SAS channels switched off, having to flick the switches... reminds me of the Ka-50 though... I don't have AFCS manuals, they're all DFCS. I'd check the emergency procedures checklists to see if it's mandatory to reengage the SAS channels manually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Flo- Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) Which is different than just tapping it and IIRC the way you described it is the way it is explained in some legendary manuals we shall not mention anymore. I remember vaguely that I've read somewhere that on airframes before a certain BUNO, pressing the Autopilot emergency disengage paddle would deactivate the pitch and roll SAS as long as the paddle switch is held. Upon release, the pitch and roll SAS would reactivate. On Tomcats with BUNOs after this certain one, the roll and pitch SAS would stay in the off position when the paddle is pressed. The latter would apply to all AFCS -B's, as that certain BUNO was an A-model built in -84. I assume that HB did their fair bit of research on this matter :) Edited July 7, 2019 by -Flo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Which manuals talk about holding the paddle switch and disengaging the pitch/roll SAS switches? 01-F14AAP-1 is the one that specifically says pitch/roll SAS do not disengage, even for DFCS aircraft: The paddle switch will disengage the autopilot. Use of the paddle switch to disengage DFCS for mode IA landing is not recommended since DLC will also be disengaged. The pitch and roll SAS switches will remain engaged. The only mention of depressing and holding the paddle switch says this: Depressing and holding the autopilot emergency disengage paddle switch with weight on wheels causes the throttle control system to be placed in the manual mode. ...in reference to autothrottles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naquaii Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) The NATOPS we use for our F-14B actually specifically mentions that the pitch and roll SAS switches reverts to OFF. It does mention that they're disabled while the paddle is held but also says that. Edited July 8, 2019 by Naquaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 This is confusing. What's the date on your manual? Mine is dated 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 What's the date on your manual? Mine is dated 2001. which is for DFCS aircraft as you've been already told. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 So the whole confusion over the paddle switch/SAS is the Heatblur F-14 being an AFCS jet and the manuals talking about DFCS jets? The more I read manuals the muddier things get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmergloom667 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Given that our -B is no DFCS aircraft, but an AFCS aircraft... why should DFCS-behaviour apply to it? i7 - 9700K | 32 GB DDR4 3200 | RTX 2080 | VKB Gunfighter Mk II /w MCG Pro | Virpil T-50CM2 Throttle | TrackIR 5 | VKB Mk. IV AJS-37 | A/V-8B | A-10C | F-14A/B | F-16C | F-18C | F-86F | FC3 | JF-17 | Ka-50 | L-39 | Mi-8 | MiG-15bis | MiG-19 | MiG-21bis | M2000-C | P-51D | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Given that our -B is no DFCS aircraft, but an AFCS aircraft... why should DFCS-behaviour apply to it? The point is it doesn't apply. Read again the first post and the following right answer in the second. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 The point is it doesn't apply. Read again the first post and the following right answer in the second. Which in a dyslexic moment I misread AFCS as DFCS and made the thread worse. My 30s have really been screwing with my brain recently :pilotfly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strikeeagle345 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Their B Model is from 1996 and is prior to the DFCS upgrade. The NATOPS manual that is floating around , found online, is much newer and a good portion of it does not apply to the HB B cat. Strike USLANTCOM.com i7-9700K OC 5GHz| MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON | 32GB DDR4 3200 | GTX 3090 | Samsung SSD | HP Reverb G2 | VIRPIL Alpha | VIRPIL Blackhawk | HOTAS Warthog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naquaii Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Our -B is based on the -B NATOPS from 95 for a F-14B Tomcat without DFCS and PTID upgrades. See attached image for the exact date information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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