[RESOLVED]Electric circuit problem

[fjacobsen]

Agree with you about on this topic, But war time is war time sometimes some things are pushed in to service w/o proper fix an issue. If Anton had this kind of problems, which could happen during war, i can live with it.

Do ED made any statment about this issue, did they say "no bug" or did they say nothing so far?

 

I opened a ticket, but did not get any other answer than they have seen my post here in the forum and that the FW-190A8 is still in EA.

So hopes are high on my side that this will be fixed, but for me this module is not very pleasant to fly with these issues.

 

And while it´s true that various wartime aircraft had their share of troubles, I really don´t believe that any aircraft, especially western ones, would have these easy to fix, but extremely dangerous issues.

The A8 version was not the first prototype one :v:, but a late war version of the FW-190A, and issues like this would already have been fixed for the early production versions.

 

The BMW801 engine and it´s associated components, like the generator, was also used on the DO-217, JU-88, as well as on some other aircraft.

Edited October 16, 2019 by fjacobsen

[grafspee]

The A8 version was not the first prototype one :v:, but a late war version of the FW-190A, and issues like this would already have been fixed for the early production versions.

 

The BMW801 engine and it´s associated components, like the generator, was also used on the DO-217, JU-88, as well as on some other aircraft.

 

Im not arguing with you now, but let tell this. late model dont get quaranteed fix, actualy late model could made this issue, when plane designejr would add more electric based stuf.

So late model could create exceed load on electric system scenario which wasnt noticed until some aditional circuit was added. I think that is quitye common to upgrade electirc stuff w/o changing generator or CB becouse on paper everything looks great and then in tests looks otherwise.

But here probably we have case with EA bugs.

Edited October 16, 2019 by grafspee

[iFoxRomeo]

Grafspee, If the system was not able to handle the electrical load, this would have been noted in the Handbook(real, not ED). But it´s not. It is noted, that the system cannot cope with loading 6 guns at the same time. Hence you have to charge 4 guns, then the other 2. Now is the information, that the system cannot support firing of all guns at the same time for more than 4 seconds more important than the charging limit? And even more if you consider that this aircraft could be fitted with additionally 2 MG151/20. Makes a total of 8 Guns. Is this supposed to fire only 2 seconds before the CB trip?

 

 

Fox

[Magic Zach]

It would be blatantly foolish to fire continuously for four full seconds

[fjacobsen]

It would be blatantly foolish to fire continuously for four full seconds

 

 

Offcourse not, though during ground attack f.ex against an enemy supply convoy or train, You could get more than close, but regardless - the Generator and Battery CB's shouldn´t trip due to that, leaving the aircraft without any electrical supply.

Edited October 17, 2019 by fjacobsen

[iFoxRomeo]

It would be blatantly foolish to fire continuously for four full seconds

 

It doesn't matter if you think this would be foolish. It is a limitation which is important for the pilot to know. Like the example with gun loading.

 

And you should read my while posting and not pick the cherries. If this aircraft can be equipped with 2 additional guns, the whole system would probably break down with the pressing of the triggers.

 

Fox

[grafspee]

It doesn't matter if you think this would be foolish. It is a limitation which is important for the pilot to know. Like the example with gun loading.

 

And you should read my while posting and not pick the cherries. If this aircraft can be equipped with 2 additional guns, the whole system would probably break down with the pressing of the triggers.

 

Fox

 

Yes, something is not right here :)

[LeCuvier]

I fully agree with fjacobsen's line of thought. Just so happens, I'm an electrical engineer too. What we experience here would be a crass example of electrical mis-design and would have been fixed after early tests.

While there are some "poppings" that might be borderline-realistic, like the undercarriage drive CB, there are others that make no sense at all. Example: The generator CB pops out immediately, each and every time I activate just the master arm switch, maybe half a minute after take-off. I repeat: just the master arm switch and nothing else.

To mitigate this, I have bound a rocker switch on my button box to the generator CB that I can flick quickly after setting the master arm to ON.

 

 

PS: @ fjacobsen: do you have any specification data for these CB's? Are they just magnetic or magnetic + thermal?

Edited October 18, 2019 by LeCuvier

[iFoxRomeo]

I fully agree with fjacobsen's line of thought. Just so happens, I'm an electrical engineer too. What we experience here would be a crass example of electrical mis-design and would have been fixed after early tests.

While there are some "poppings" that might be borderline-realistic, like the undercarriage drive CB, there are others that make no sense at all. Example: The generator CB pops out immediately, each and every time I activate just the master arm switch, maybe half a minute after take-off. I repeat: just the master arm switch and nothing else.

To mitigate this, I have bound a rocker switch on my button box to the generator CB that I can flick quickly after setting the master arm to ON.

 

 

PS: @ fjacobsen: do you have any specification data for these CB's? Are they just magnetic or magnetic + thermal?

 

 

Did you read my report here? : https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=248596

 

 

Fox

[fjacobsen]

I fully agree with fjacobsen's line of thought. Just so happens, I'm an electrical engineer too. What we experience here would be a crass example of electrical mis-design and would have been fixed after early tests.

While there are some "poppings" that might be borderline-realistic, like the undercarriage drive CB, there are others that make no sense at all. Example: The generator CB pops out immediately, each and every time I activate just the master arm switch, maybe half a minute after take-off. I repeat: just the master arm switch and nothing else.

To mitigate this, I have bound a rocker switch on my button box to the generator CB that I can flick quickly after setting the master arm to ON.

 

 

PS: @ fjacobsen: do you have any specification data for these CB's? Are they just magnetic or magnetic + thermal?

 

 

I don´t know what kind of CB's the FW-190A8 uses.

It all depends on how the wires has been dimensioned.

If the wires can carry the shortcut load (without melting), until the thermal part of the CB trips, then the magnetic part might not be necessary.

 

 

Thermal is for overload protection, while magnetic is for shortcut protection, and I doubt that shortcuts are modelled in the DCS FW-190A8.

[JIMJAM]

Well against my better judgement I bought the Anton after seeing the headline " fix for popping cbs". Besides, as a owner of many a British car with Lucifer, err I mean Lucas wiring and rewired my Delorean, how hard can it be to not tax my virtual warbird by throw everything at it all at once? Well PLENTY it seems. I now have maybe 2 hrs TT on the Anton and actually have CBs bound to my throttle "a first!!!". Same with many other obscure things you NEVER bind to. My gear comes up, sometimes goes down. Flip a coin. The guns are a mess. I have never seen the outer guns fire. I follow the "fix" and IT WORKED!! Twice.

I have found no work around, no rhyme or reason why or if something works. I see no procedure.

[Jedra]

I also bought the Anton yesterday in the sale and have come to the conclusion that there is no method to this circuit breaker popping madness. If you run a track file of a flight, they seem to pop in different places when you run it over and over.

 

It would be good to have an option to turn off circuit breaker modelling. I am all for realism, but this is far too frustrating as is.

 

I am going to bind the CBs to my Cougar MFDs for now though...

[JIMJAM]

Last night I devoted some time just to the cb/gear issue and have figured it out. This is with the plane already running. Take off as with any other tail dragger although with this one , after rotation I keep a very shallow climb. Begin throttling back, and once you are settled in and no threat of the plane settling back down or stalling, level off working the throttle to say around that 200 airspeed mark. Raise the gear when iirc you are at or a little above 200 on the airspeed. I did this at least 30x in a row. The airspeed and level are key. After gear up, raise the flaps. Now you can yank and bank.

The guns are documented but I click on the top switch and wait for the red lights. Give it 3 seconds or so then click the one below it. Again after 3-5 seconds you are ready to flip back the stick cover and start blasting away.

[Magic Zach]

Last night I devoted some time just to the cb/gear issue and have figured it out. This is with the plane already running. Take off as with any other tail dragger although with this one , after rotation I keep a very shallow climb. Begin throttling back, and once you are settled in and no threat of the plane settling back down or stalling, level off working the throttle to say around that 200 airspeed mark. Raise the gear when iirc you are at or a little above 200 on the airspeed. I did this at least 30x in a row. The airspeed and level are key. After gear up, raise the flaps. Now you can yank and bank.

The guns are documented but I click on the top switch and wait for the red lights. Give it 3 seconds or so then click the one below it. Again after 3-5 seconds you are ready to flip back the stick cover and start blasting away.

I have told you this

170km/h climbout

Raise flaps, wait for them

Raise gear, don't push past 170 until fully retracted

 

200km/h is probably right at the limit

 

The issue comes not from the plane but from not following the procedures.

[MAD-MM]

How can you safely takeaoff with 170Km/h with flaps in takeoff Positon full Load? more likley Banzai..

The German Pilot Manual, says Gear have to be retracted to a maximum Speed of 280km/h, thats impossible right know..

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Hey! Yo-Yo !!!! Please fix this!

[fjacobsen]

It´s not the procedure we are getting wrong - it´s the aircraft that isn´t right.

So all attempts to fix this by changing procedures are also just interim fixes.

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

Been told it's fixed internally.

 

Will probably make it's way to beta on the next update ( ? )

 

Anway - it's fixed - we now just have to wait a little while longer...

We can pretend we're flying an aircraft with a malfunction, requiring non-normal procedures.

[JIMJAM]

Actually I search and read actual test pilot reports/notes and designer memos to see if this was a bug or just a over done attempt to replicate a real world issue. There were issues with the gear not coming up all the way and there were issues with the electrical system. That said these issues were resolved in short order. The main problem was the horrible ground handling because of the nose and was fixed by either swing side to side or having someone sit on the wing and give directions to the pilot. I kinda liked that one.

[bbrz]

The main problem was the horrible ground handling because of the nose and was fixed by either swing side to side or having someone sit on the wing and give directions to the pilot.

Don't understand what bad viz (which is common to most tail draggers) has to do with ground handling?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_T8SxnqV8U

 

Especially with its wide track landing gear, ground handling should be rather good.

 

Btw, great that the annoying CB problem has been fixed :)

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

 

Btw, great that the annoying CB problem has been fixed :)

 

Yep !!! Been told so by a major developer ;-)

 

:thumbup: DCS Rulezzzzzz !!!!

 

P.S.: Dreaming of that P47 bbrz !!!!!!

[FlankerKiller]

So you definitely haven't seen any electrical systems, Sometimes CB will pop off in multi places at the same time, For example CB will pop off in your apartament for light circuit but at the same time CB for your apartament will pop off too and if you are good you probably can blow CB for whole residential block :)

But this will happen mostly when rapid short circuit happen.

Maby CB is poping out becouse guns take more amperage while heating up.

Did someone try turning off some load in fw and check is it still happening ? like pitot heater etc etc.

Umm, no not exactly. If you were close to your overall load rating, say 50amp, and the lode spike put you over the limit, then you might see both pop. But in aircraft it is extremely rare to ever pop the main gen, or batt beakers. The smaller breakers in a series are there to prevent that, and to allow the use of smaller gauge wire. If the 5amp breaker was to hold the load long enough to pop the 50amp braeker then the 5amps wiring would be permanently damaged. So I know this is an old aircraft, but there is no way that the system behavior I’ve seen is realistic. It would have been modded really quickly to fix it if it was.

[FlankerKiller]

Agree completely, I’m not an electrical engineer, but I am an aircraft electrician, and this would have been fixed immediately.

[NineLine]

There are some issues with the sensitivity of circuit breakers that have been reported, if you have some more info or tracks, feel to share them and I can check them out as well, thanks!

[Anatoli-Kagari9]

It's been fixed internally already - I guess it'll be in the next 190 A-8 patch.