Sabre AI has reverted to drone state

[SFC Tako]

It behaves again like it did maybe two years ago.

Very passive, barely making 250kph in a mild climb. Oh and it doesn't even react to being fired upon. This with skill level set to "excellent". I'm running the open Beta.

 

Here it is:

 

[feefifofum]

Post the .miz so we can see how the AI is programmed?

[SFC Tako]

A miz-file will show "how the AI is programmed"?!?!

Gimme a break, man. You just make a mission by yourself. Set the Sabre AI to "excellent", with CAP as objective and then enjoy the slacking. Trust me, you can can fly a Huey and get away with it. Please, buddy, it has nothing to do with any mission files. The AI is broken. Again.

[msalama]

The guy's trying to help and you respond by chewing him a new rear orifice? Yeah, you do need that break badly.

 

Broken or not, combing through the .miz files can sometimes help. But indeed, why post it if all you really need is a break?

[feefifofum]

Maybe it's not set to "CAP." Maybe it doesn't have any tasking at all in which case it is behaving exactly as you'd expect it to. Maybe the aircraft has an incorrect ROE or REACTION TO THREAT setting. Yeah, it'll show quite a bit about how the AI is programmed, most notably if YOU borked up somewhere, before someone with something better to do wastes their time trying to reproduce a potentially nonexistent bug.

 

By providing literally no information you will receive a proportionate amount of help.

 

I am not a member of the ED team, and I have nothing to do with anything besides the F-15 campaign I co-authored...I have no dog in this fight, just trying to help. Have a nice day.

Edited July 25, 2019 by feefifofum

[feefifofum]

The Sabre has no issue engaging its opponent. Here are the .miz and .trk files demonstrating this.

Sabre test.miz

Sabre test.trk

[feefifofum]

...and hey, what do you know, exact same results in an I-16.

 

Looks like someone with something better to do wasted their time trying to reproduce a nonexistent bug!

Sabre test I-16.trk

[SFC Tako]

OK - non existing bug. Too bad it's just happening to me then.

[feefifofum]

If you were to..say, post your .miz, maybe someone could take a look and see what the problem might be? ;)

 

If it is a problem specific to your machine, or your installation of DCS, someone might have some suggestions as to ways to repair it or locate the source of the issue once the obvious stuff is eliminated.

Edited July 25, 2019 by feefifofum

[SFC Tako]

Yeah? Well here it is. Have fun ;)

16FightingTheSabre.miz

[feefifofum]

First thing I noticed was a redundant CAP tasking at WP1.

The "CAP" tasking is a blanket default behavior that will determine the units' behavior for every subsequent waypoint (you will see CAP-a-ref as the first action in the heirarchy.) If all you want them to do is shoot at any blue planes their sensors can detect along their flight path, no matter what, you don't need to do anything besides place the aircraft with its default tasking.

 

That being said, the redundancy should not produce the effects you are seeing and indeed does not on my own PC. After taking off, with no alterations to the mission, the Sabre passed me, circled behind, then killed me as expected. I am flying these with the keyboard so I'm not really trying to fight the guy but he's definitely attacking.

 

This means there is some funny business specific to you going on, assuming you have made no changes to the mission since taking that video.

 

First thing I'd ask is to try again and confirm the same result with the exact mission file you just posted. It is enough to take off and fly straight and level, the jet should kill you inside of 3 minutes.

 

If the problem is reproducible, the next thing I'd ask is if you were running any mods, especially anything having to do with either the I-16 or F-86F. If so, disable all mods, use a default livery, make your installation as vanilla as humanly possible. Does the problem still persist? If not add things back in, one at a time, until you find the culprit.

 

If the problem persists with a totally vanilla installation, rename your /saved games/dcs.openbeta directory and allow the game to generate a new one. Does the problem persist? If not, copy the /config/input folder from your old saved games directory to the new one to restore your control bindings.

 

If the problem persists, open a command prompt window in Eagle Dynamics/DCS World Openbeta/bin and run the following two commands:

 

1. This will remove any non-current or modified game files from the main directory

DCS_updater.exe cleanup 

 

2. This will restore any missing or altered game files from the ED servers

DCS_updater.exe repair 

 

You can also find a shortcut for "Repair DCS World OpenBeta" in the start menu, if you allowed DCS to create an entry.

 

 

If the problem persists with a cleaned/repaired DCS install, with a vanilla mission, with a regenerated /saved games directory, using only default game assets....then you've really got a live one and you're pretty much down to the full nuclear option, which is removing and reinstalling DCS.

 

Failing THAT, I'm out of ideas and you'll have to find someone who really works for ED. If you're looking for a response from them, I'd recommend less snark and more usable data. The testing team needs four items to do their job: .miz, .trk, .log, and a brief description of the steps required to reproduce the issue.

Edited July 26, 2019 by feefifofum
Edited for typos and clarity

[SFC Tako]

Sorry for late reply, I've been tied up with other dealings.

This is interesting though, will investigate further.

[Tippis]

Just to note, the redundant tasking is most likely due to a current known bug that reverts/reinstates all default task behaviours when you open a mission, eg. a group with “CAP” tasking will automatically be given the standard CAP-a-ref waypoint action, no matter how much you try to delete it (same with, for example, Tanker and AWACS tasks, some of which come with default settings that just outright break the behaviour you're trying to give them).

[feefifofum]

Yeah, just found that one myself and was coming to mention it...thanks for the heads up. :thumbup:

 

Definitely some funny business afoot...let us know how things get sorted.

[SFC Tako]

Alright, I actually had a mod activated - the "Countries Modder".

I disabled it and for safe measure did the cleanup and repair...NOT throwing away my custom skins though. Then I did a very simple head-to-head mission at 2000m, Mig-15 vs Sabre.

 

The Sabre seemed to fly a bit quicker first but after a few turns it went back into flying at roughly 150kts. Again. Anyways, that might be how they want it to behave at low altitude. After this I changed the altitude to 10000m (30k+ feet) for us both and the Sabre chased me with more intensity. But still, even it's highest level of AI is a pushover if compared to the Mig's AI. It never even threatened me. I mean one must fly in a straight and level fashion for it to attack. Well, that's the case on my end. Might have to reinstall DCS altogether.

 

Or somebody else please try a simple dogfight with the Mig-15 vs an AI Sabre.

Edited July 30, 2019 by SFC Tako

[feefifofum]

Next time I have my gear set up I'll try to give him a proper fight and see if he starts acting stupid...I only ever let him merge and kill me.

 

EDIT:

Also, I wouldn't ask you to throw anything away, just temporarily move it to eliminate as a potential source of the problem. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 15GB of extra community-created planes and objects as part of my personal DCS installation which is where I did all of this testing, and didn't see any issues with the merge and the first couple of turns. That's as far as I went with the testing though, as I didn't have flight controls up at the time...if you're saying that he doesn't start behaving that way until after several turns there could definitely still be something wrong on the Sabre's end of things. There have certainly been other bumps in the road with the current open beta.

Edited July 31, 2019 by feefifofum

[SFC Tako]

We'll just have to see if anyone else tries this. And to be honest, I'm contemplating returning to the real DCS. Beta has been great fun because I've gotten to try the new stuff right away but...ahem...I'm not trusting it.