Laser bombs with TGP

[fjacobsen]

I also think the release cue is a little too late, but for me, GBU-12s (haven't tried with others) still track the laser and hit just fine, even from 25000 feet altitude, pretty much 100% of the time. I was thinking that some people may actually have "good enough" release cues, but the bomb failed to spot the laser and flew past the target.

 

 

.....the bomb failed to spot the laser and flew past the target.

 

 

... exactly what it seems to happen.

I´(almost) sure that the issue is caused by a too late release, thus making the bomb overshoot "the Basket" and therefore not able to see the laser.

 

 

What helps is to either release with CCIP (Diving towards the target) or to dive 20-30 secs before Autorelease. This will then make the bomb release inside the the Basket".

 

 

Maybe the it´s simply down to wrong balistic tables for the GBU's or wrongly calculated Autorelease point.

[Harker]

Maybe the it´s simply down to wrong balistic tables for the GBU's or wrongly calculated Autorelease point.

Probably that. The strange thing is that several people, including myself, don't have this problem.

Maybe if someone is willing to send me their track, I can see if I can replicate it.

[DeathAngel1]

Probably that. The strange thing is that several people, including myself, don't have this problem.

Maybe if someone is willing to send me their track, I can see if I can replicate it.

 

OK see my track and tell me pls what Im doing wrong? I get tired of this...in AUTO mode LGBs never spot the laser...:(

 

BTW in CCIP mode they works pretty fine and always hit.

LBGs via TGP AUTO mode bug.trk

[Harker]

OK see my track and tell me pls what Im doing wrong? I get tired of this...in AUTO mode LGBs never spot the laser...:(

 

BTW in CCIP mode they works pretty fine and always hit.

So, I looked at your track. Indeed, the AUTO release cue is too late and the bomb seeker can't see the laser. I then replayed and took control, flew it exactly the same as you and got the same results.

 

After that, I created a similar test mission on the PG map and released with the same parameters (~15000 ft, ~450 knots, BALT Autopilot) and my GBU-12 tracked the laser and hit the target. I don't know how to explain that. I even was in more or less the same place on the map and everything. I'm sorry I couldn't help, man :(. What I can suggest is that you release at a slight dive angle.

[DeathAngel1]

So, I looked at your track. Indeed, the AUTO release cue is too late and the bomb seeker can't see the laser. I then replayed and took control, flew it exactly the same as you and got the same results.

 

After that, I created a similar test mission on the PG map and released with the same parameters (~15000 ft, ~450 knots, BALT Autopilot) and my GBU-12 tracked the laser and hit the target. I don't know how to explain that. I even was in more or less the same place on the map and everything. I'm sorry I couldn't help, man :(. What I can suggest is that you release at a slight dive angle.

 

Ok thanks anyway... seems like i will use CCIP for LGBs only, until we get hot fix for AUTO mode.

[GafferDCS]

Without using waypoints at all (only selecting sequence to see the route on the SA page), I am able to get consistent hits with LGB's. As others have mentioned, it appears very likely that the auto delivery erroneous delivery cues are cause by some conflict to the waypoint system. Even if the designation appears to be exactly on target, the release queue is way too late resulting in an overshoot release point.

I can reproduce this consistently.

To summarise, in my experience, in order to induce the inaccuracy:

1.) On the lower display, box the Waypoint in the top right.

2.) Set the waypoint to 1.

3.) Box the sequence option (don't think this has an actual impact)

 

I have tried deselecting (switch the box off) on the Waypoint button top right mid flight and then designate the target, but once it has been selected it breaks the delivery queue for me. I hope this helps whoever is trying to troubleshoot the issue.

 

I had the same issue. Using wpsdg will keep the GBU 12’s from picking up a laser. Even after deselecting everything to do with the waypoint system. I get a good drop on target, but the bomb never sees the laser. Also it does a weird thing where the LTD/R toggles on and off with the trigger press, instead of holding down the trigger to fire the laser.

[schurem]

Huh. I have been getting some really inconsistent results. Perhaps I should try some CCIP deliveries, see if the bombs see the laser that way.

[Charly314159]

I have the late auto release bug as well. I found that the best way was to use auto to guide myself toward the release point and switch to manual delivery 30s before the expected release and do it manually at roughly t-20s.

So no need for a ccip dive!

[Eagle7907]

Or you can keep it on Auto and just shallow dive. Many ways to skin a terrorist.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Akula]

If anyone is still having issues, check out post #12 here;

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=246826&page=2

 

and read what I posted. It's a little more complicated than just dropping a bomb.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Akula

[M2K]

I'm afraid it's not that easy ... I dropped around 100 GBUs today, trying multiple parameters and methodoly changes and I see a clear and repeatable gap on the very most of them.

 

I dropped them all by the book, as regards the procedure, of course. Speed and altitude are not the most influencal factors. The AUTO mode is broken somehow, and drops the bomb up to 10 seconds late.

 

Diving (not ideal) or switching to MAN to drop it in advance makes it impacting all time. But a stabilized flight at a locked altitude with AUTO generates more frustation that impacts on target :)

 

There are too many people missing their targets to be just a procedure misreading ... I discussed that today with several other people, they all suffer from this issue.

[tobyeez]

I just release mine in CCIP mode then activate laser. So much simpler.

[M2K]

I now just use the pod to transfer coordinates to JDAM bombs. 100% hits and way more flexibility (larger domain/true fire and forget).

 

Best tutorial is here :

[KTFBGB]

I now just use the pod to transfer coordinates to JDAM bombs. 100% hits and way more flexibility (larger domain/true fire and forget).

 

Best tutorial is here :

 

Agree except for moving targets.

 

I just manually deleted all mods to make sure nothing was left behind. Then I did a clean and repair. Can’t fly any more today but I’m going to test again with a pure vanilla configuration. The last big update had a big problems with mods including the sinking through the map from skins. So, worth a try in pure vanilla again in the morning and see what happens.

[NoJoe]

Without using waypoints at all (only selecting sequence to see the route on the SA page), I am able to get consistent hits with LGB's. As others have mentioned, it appears very likely that the auto delivery erroneous delivery cues are cause by some conflict to the waypoint system. Even if the designation appears to be exactly on target, the release queue is way too late resulting in an overshoot release point.

I can reproduce this consistently.

To summarise, in my experience, in order to induce the inaccuracy:

1.) On the lower display, box the Waypoint in the top right.

2.) Set the waypoint to 1.

3.) Box the sequence option (don't think this has an actual impact)

 

To NOT break it:

1.) On the lower display, ONLY box the sequence option. Do not touch the Waypoint box nor change the waypoints.

 

I have tried deselecting (switch the box off) on the Waypoint button top right mid flight and then designate the target, but once it has been selected it breaks the delivery queue for me. I hope this helps whoever is trying to troubleshoot the issue.

 

I'm seeing the same thing, and I think what's happening is that the release cue might be using the navigation waypoint's altitude to calculate the release point of the bomb.

 

I was flying to waypoint #3 which was defined to be 20,000 feet, and the DUD cue kept appearing while I was flying at 20,000. Once I climbed up to about 22,500 the DUD cue went away, but the Auto release point was very very late; I was basically on top of the target so the bomb went very far past.

 

I've been trying to reproduce it, but it seems inconsistent. Sometimes when I turn away from the target I'll suddenly get the DUD cue again, then it goes away once I'm inbound. I'll keep at it to see if I can find a better repro. Seems like it works more often when starting the mission in the air, and the issue happens more often when doing a cold start.

 

But I'm pretty sure part of the issue is that the release cue is using the navigation waypoint's altitude to calculate when to drop the bomb.

 

[EDIT] Yeah, I can reliably reproduce it when I start from cold and dark. The bomb release altitude seems to inherit the altitude of the current nav waypoint at the time the targeting pod was turned on (or when the initialization timer ended, I'm not sure). First I tried setting the waypoint to 20,000 feet in the mission editor, and that seemed to be what the release cue was using. Then I tried it again with the waypoint at 15,000 feet, and the release cue used that.

 

A workaround seems to be to press the up or down arrows on the HSI to select a different waypoint. Then the release cue will use the correct altitude from the designated targeting pod point.

Edited August 8, 2019 by NoJoe

[M2K]

I'm seeing the same thing, and I think what's happening is that the release cue might be using the navigation waypoint's altitude to calculate the release point of the bomb.

 

You nailed it!

Changing the WP altitude solves the problem. I now have a 100% hit ratio :)

[Harker]

You guys were using waypoints set at an elevation of 20k feet as target points? Of course, your AUTO releases were botched then. If you're using WPDSG to set up your target point, then you need to make sure that the waypoint's elevation is 0 feet AGL. Otherwise, the MC is calculating the AUTO release to hit a point in the air and of course overshoots your intended target.

AUTO works reasonably well for me. Hits right on target with all Mk-80 series bombs, during ~20-40 degree dive releases at above 9-10k feet. And 95% of the time, level flight AUTO release with LGBs work as well (they track the laser). But in all cases, of course the target point's elevation is set at the ground level.

[KTFBGB]

You guys were using waypoints set at an elevation of 20k feet as target points? Of course, your AUTO releases were botched then. If you're using WPDSG to set up your target point, then you need to make sure that the waypoint's elevation is 0 feet AGL. Otherwise, the MC is calculating the AUTO release to hit a point in the air and of course overshoots your intended target.

AUTO works reasonably well for me. Hits right on target with all Mk-80 series bombs, during ~20-40 degree dive releases at above 9-10k feet. And 95% of the time, level flight AUTO release with LGBs work as well (they track the laser). But in all cases, of course the target point's elevation is set at the ground level.

 

Negative. Merely having the waypoint set in the HSI for navigation is what is messing it up. You have to have the waypoints set to ground. Not using wpdsg only navigation. If the waypoint is not set to ground elevation then you need to unbox WP on the HSI. It is linking to the WP elevation for whatever WP is selected. So for now just undesignate WP attack your targets then re select WP to continue navigation.

Edited August 8, 2019 by KTFBGB

[KTFBGB]

Edit: just to clarify. It seems as though the TPOD is designating the spot directly above the selected target at whatever elevation the closest waypoint is set to. Again this is not with having wpdsg boxed. Of course if you are designating a waypoint as a tgt then it’s going to use that elevation. But that’s not what’s happening here.

[fjacobsen]

You guys were using waypoints set at an elevation of 20k feet as target points? Of course, your AUTO releases were botched then. If you're using WPDSG to set up your target point, then you need to make sure that the waypoint's elevation is 0 feet AGL. Otherwise, the MC is calculating the AUTO release to hit a point in the air and of course overshoots your intended target.

AUTO works reasonably well for me. Hits right on target with all Mk-80 series bombs, during ~20-40 degree dive releases at above 9-10k feet. And 95% of the time, level flight AUTO release with LGBs work as well (they track the laser). But in all cases, of course the target point's elevation is set at the ground level.

 

 

You might only be right if a waypoint is set as target point.

 

 

In almost all cases You will use the TGP to set the target point, ie. use the TGP to find a target on the ground and then with te TGP as SOI, set the target point, which then is at ground level. This is also indicated by the target point diamond on the HUD, rightly placed on the designated target.

 

 

 

What happens right now, is that the bombs are released to late to be able to pick up the laser and steer towards it.

 

 

The weird thing is that some people seems not to be affected by at as others.

[PitbullVicious]

You nailed it!

Changing the WP altitude solves the problem. I now have a 100% hit ratio :)

 

Excellent detective work. Might be worth pinging someone from ED so that they notice this. Probably easy bug to fix once they know where to look (if this is really the cause for the bug).

[Harlikwin]

You might only be right if a waypoint is set as target point.

 

 

In almost all cases You will use the TGP to set the target point, ie. use the TGP to find a target on the ground and then with te TGP as SOI, set the target point, which then is at ground level. This is also indicated by the target point diamond on the HUD, rightly placed on the designated target.

 

 

 

What happens right now, is that the bombs are released to late to be able to pick up the laser and steer towards it.

 

 

The weird thing is that some people seems not to be affected by at as others.

 

I wonder if folks aren't setting the target point right. I.e. TDC depress. I haven't had too many problems with it, but I have had some misses early on when I wasn't doing that.

[KTFBGB]

I wonder if folks aren't setting the target point right. I.e. TDC depress. I haven't had too many problems with it, but I have had some misses early on when I wasn't doing that.

 

I was following wags process that he typed out in the mini update yesterday to check my procedure. Missed every single one. Never picked up the laser. Move all navigation waypoints to ground elevation rather than air. Every single one hits. Somehow the navigation elevation of the nearest waypoint was over riding the TPOD designation. That’s why the release que was so late.

[Harker]

Negative. Merely having the waypoint set in the HSI for navigation is what is messing it up. You have to have the waypoints set to ground. Not using wpdsg only navigation. If the waypoint is not set to ground elevation then you need to unbox WP on the HSI. It is linking to the WP elevation for whatever WP is selected. So for now just undesignate WP attack your targets then re select WP to continue navigation.

 

 

Edit: just to clarify. It seems as though the TPOD is designating the spot directly above the selected target at whatever elevation the closest waypoint is set to. Again this is not with having wpdsg boxed. Of course if you are designating a waypoint as a tgt then it’s going to use that elevation. But that’s not what’s happening here.

 

 

Hmm, interesting. I'll try to replicate it. I have indeed been using either waypoints set to ground level for attack reference or unboxing the WP on the HSI, in order to get the target distance on the HUD, with the TGP, so this is likely an issue that I just haven't run in to.

[Harker]

You might only be right if a waypoint is set as target point.

 

 

In almost all cases You will use the TGP to set the target point, ie. use the TGP to find a target on the ground and then with te TGP as SOI, set the target point, which then is at ground level. This is also indicated by the target point diamond on the HUD, rightly placed on the designated target.

 

 

 

What happens right now, is that the bombs are released to late to be able to pick up the laser and steer towards it.

 

 

The weird thing is that some people seems not to be affected by at as others.

 

 

See my above comment. If it's related to what KTFBGB says, then it's likely that others and I just haven't encountered the bug because of the way we set up waypoints for ground attack.