New F-22A Raptor Video: BEWARE Su Pilots and Fanbois

[britgliderpilot]

That was genuinely impressive!

 

 

I'd prefer a more reserved commentary, and when they put on a Raptor airshow just for me I'll tell them so :P

[Mizzy]

You can never have too much thrust.

 

Thats what I say to all the boys ;)

 

Mizzy

[Camoman]

Thanks for the post, nice clip. That vapour at 10.32 was seriously impressive, would make an awesome photo in high res.

[Rhino104]

I knew by posting this all the Su and Mig Fanbois (yes I will use the word because it is appropriate here) would come out, defending their great aircraft. (There, I said that too, I agree that the Su's and Mig's are pretty good.)

 

You have to think of this though, in America, the FAA restricts our airshows A TON over here, so the pilots and demos are limited by that. The demo that you saw, had to go through rigourous certification flights before it was even seen by the general public. The Sukhoi and MiG demos you guys see, the pilots are putting their jets out of control and way outside the envelope, and they are also STRIPPED DOWN of any weapons pylons and probably have less gas as well. The Raptor can do all of these maneuvers with a full gas load and full weapons load, and be in complete control with the onboard flight computers. Are the Su's and MiG's fly-by wire?

 

The point is, this is not even close to what the Raptor brings to the table in an A-2-A BVR or Knife-Fight or even an Air-2-Ground scenario. Remember, this is replacing the F-117 and some of our F-15 fleet. The Eagle will still be around for quite a while! That, and, it is still invisible on radar. But then again, someone will come up saying that the Russians have some new radar that can see it, we shall see about that.

 

Don't forget also, that this thing had about a 97% kill ratio at Red Flag this past year. The only one that "died" was when one of the Raptor pilots pulled up about 3 miles directly in front of an OPFOR F-16 who didn't even see him on radar.

 

If I had to chose my knife in a knife fight, it would be this thing. However, to break a perception that all Americans are are war mongering fiends, I will say I hope that we never have to use this thing in anger.

 

Regarding the "Hollywood" like show, hey, its America, we like that kind of thing. The music was put together by Hollywood producers and they had a full production truck behind the crowd doing this. (They had 2 massive jumbotrons on either end of the runway showing incockpit shots, and other things.)

[Force_Feedback]

Yes, the Su-30mki and Mig-29OVT retain full responsiveness and control at high alpha, just because the control software doesn't allow certain roll/pitch rates on the f-22 doesn't mean the Sus and Migs suddenly got some control issues.

This 'size doesn't matter' discussion is a bit useless, considered the migs and sukhois were mere upgrades of vintage 70-ies and eighties' designs, while the F-22 was already designed to have high thrust engines, TVC and all those things.

Just like comparing the Mig-21-93 with a Block 52 F-16, sure they have nearly the same avionics, but the design itself is different.

There are no other 5th gen aircraft flying, until then the F-22 will have the best T/W ratio and payload capability, but that doesn't matter the Russian planes suck, as some of them are 20 years older of design and can surpass the F-22 in some maneuvers. Why not allow them to pull the FCS breaker and try a proper Cobra with TVC locked out, then we'll discuss aerodynamics of the Su-27 and compare them to the F-22, even though they're 30 years apart.

I'm almost inclined to say that people from the US are somehow believing the F-22 is some super plane as per LM propaganda towards the Congress, but seriousely, what do you expect for such sums of money?

And against who are they trying to potentially use the F-22? It's too expensive to take on thirld world countries because of the risk of getting shot down, and against Russia/China they aren't effective as well due to extensive passive array developments over there, not to mention long wave radars to vector a missile that will do the terminal homing on itself. You can't use them for Jihad blasting as well, because of the MANPAD risk. So, why is tat thing flying at all? Any nations that can counter it can also send quite a lot of megatonnes of TNT with a radioactive side effect, and the countries that are likely to be invaded by the US either lack a proper air force, or the F-22 is deemed too high value to engage any 3rd gen Mig-21s and L-39s with rocket pods.

They should halt the F-22 production immediately and concentrate on the F-35, which has some real growth potential and advanced systems (for its class).

[-akyla-]

Lets just say..

Put A russian pilot Pavel Vlasov into the cocpit and then you will see ''supermanouvers'' i think raptor will pull some very very good moves with a better pilot .. that raptor pilot is so afraid to do some real moves..

Don't get me wrong .. I like all planes!

[Scart]

nice vid

[Groove]

Nice T/W ratio !

 

But why all this music in this videos ???

[S77th-GOYA]

Thanks for the post, nice clip. That vapour at 10.32 was seriously impressive, would make an awesome photo in high res.

 

I've seen some much better transonic vapes from the F-22. They were low res though.

[192nd_Erdem]

Lets just say..

Put A russian pilot Pavel Vlasov into the cocpit and then you will see ''supermanouvers'' i think raptor will pull some very very good moves with a better pilot .. that raptor pilot is so afraid to do some real moves..

Don't get me wrong .. I like all planes!

 

Well, hundreds of millons worth plane under your seat compared to 35 million worth Su's . . . I'd stay away from shows completely :)

[TucksonSonny]

This is from the Raptor demo at GML 2007 about a week ago. Pretty freakin awesome if you ask me.

 

http://www.airshowbuzz.com/videos/view.php?v=a090713b

 

 

Flip ?

 

A flip is a flip when it is done under 3 seconds!

I have not all day to watch “the flip” of a raptor…

 

 

 

Flip 360 after flip 360 is about 5 times faster by the mig35…

Here is a flip!

:D

[Pilotasso]

Yes, the Su-30mki and Mig-29OVT retain full responsiveness and control at high alpha, just because the control software doesn't allow certain roll/pitch rates on the f-22 doesn't mean the Sus and Migs suddenly got some control issues.

 

Your slighly mistaken. When you see those planes doing high alpha what your seeing is stall with simetrical boundary layer displacement. I.e. you dont spin out of controll but your controll surfaces dont do nothing but act as airbrakes. The MKI and OVE can still steer arround but thats on engine power.

 

Just like comparing the Mig-21-93 with a Block 52 F-16, sure they have nearly the same avionics, but the design itself is different.

 

Not a chance in hell. The F-16 pit is still much better equiped, and has a better radar. The migs improvement is large but still modest compared to latest viper models. Mig-21-93 standard is arround for a while, the lates is the Romanian lancer, wich does use lots of more modern hardware.

[Stormin]

The true measure of who has the larger "johnson" would be an aerial combat engagement.

 

Thankfully, that doesn't seem likely. But, none the less, I would put my money on the Raptor, any day of the week. There's plenty that is not being discussed or demonstrated at airshows regarding the capabilities of this outstanding aircraft.

 

As for the Hollywood narration and music, it's amazing how many laugh at our nature and culture, and yet the sales of American videos and music overseas continues to know no bounds.

[Force_Feedback]

Just funny that people try to compare relatively new designs to an old mig-29, and yet the mig-29 (ok, its nozzles) make it more agile, if thats not a good bang for the buck, then I don't know. Just lets wait for the MFI before we start making comparisons with the F-22, becasue everything flying around does not compare to it, not even the Rafale and EF-2000, because those had multirole capabilities built into their designs.

It seems like the F-22 can do a lot more, but is hampered from doing it by something, be it the pilot or the computers.

The F-22 is the best a lot of money can buy, the F-35 is the best solution for real life needs.

 

EDIT: Hey, I've seen it with the music on @ home, well, itsn't that Jerry Goldmith's work? R.I.P. he was the best movie theme composer ever, no Hans Williams can match him, ever!

[GGTharos]

It's hampered by the air force's desire to make sure it remains an Air Dominance fighter, and not a bomb truck.

[Silent Warrior]

Can't we just conclude that the F(/A?)-22 is a hella neat bird and leave it at that? It feels like we've been over this a dozen times already and then some...

 

(As for the music, it started with JOHN Williams's Close Encounter of the Third Kind, followed by a snippet of same Williams's Jaws, and then I just had enough of the narrator and left that site.)

[Groove]

It's hampered by the air force's desire to make sure it remains an Air Dominance fighter, and not a bomb truck.

 

THIS is a BOMB TRUCK !

 

 

 

[Force_Feedback]

Damn, them two sound too much alike, the first 30 seconds reminded my of late Jerry Goldsmith. His music is more consistent, with less 'progressive' ups and down, if it starts rough, it will be the whole track long, if it starts emotional, it may have some highs and lows, but will eventually remain in the emotional theme. His work for the sum of all fears, many star trek movies and that cold fusion flick (forgot the name of that one) are damn good.

 

Why not give the F-35 a tvc nozzle, blow up the belly for more fuel, perhaps some boomie rods, and the F-22 can be sold to Israel or something for twice the price. Imagine the shows a light F-35 with tvc could give, wow.

 

Crazy Russians, that Truck could have been reduced to metal strips not bigger than your average, errm, bullet.

[graywo1fg]

MEH i truely believe the F-22 will win in BVR no doubt! it will own anything probably in BVR but if it even gets close at all to where BVR is not an option of course and its time to go into heaters.... we might have a very good battle on our hands, between the 22 and say a mig-35 or Su-30 MKI i believe that the Migs and Su's will win not with ease but it all comes down to the pilot i believe. i think the aircraft can beat the 22 but it comes down to... the US have a horrificaly more flying and training time than anyone who trains with the Mig or Su so there are so many things to think of and it cannot and will not be proven until it happens in real life... and it wont.... i really hope!

[Pilotasso]

I have yet to see how well electro optical sensors work against the F-22 up close. It does have stealth measures against these as well, but I dont think we will ever know how efective these are. One thing I know for sure, if you keep your enemy dominated BVR it is much easier to pick on them WVR as you have the initiative and tactical advantage while the enemy is occupied evading or reposition themselves with degraded SA that comes from this situation.

[Rhino104]

Another great thing about the Raptor in the BVR scene, is that the Raptor's computers and radar systems are all data-linked to other Raptors and AWACS, and vise versa. What one Raptor sees 500 miles to the east, a Raptor just taking off or in another area can now see with out even talking to that pilot, it is put on one of his MFDs. Last time I flew the Su in Lockon I didn't remember seeing that, so there is one leg up for the Blue team.

[EvilBivol-1]

Look up MiG-31, circa 1980... ;)

 

Rhino, I don't think most serious aviation fans, even those favoring the Russian jets, would doubt the F-22's dominance in the air. After all, it is a 5th generation fighter - 'nuff said. It's airshow routine, on the other hand, is not as impressive as what the Russian TVC fighters perform. I don't know if that has more to do with the aircarft's capabilities or show restrictions, but it's obvious the power coming out of those engines is huge and that is arguably more important in air combat than being able to do 3 flips in a row.

[rogue_blade]

i cant even imagine a dogfight between aircraft like the f22, mig35, ovt, MKI and all that stuff. it would be nothing like we play, see on movies or on documentary footage. these things can all turn on a dime at pretty much 0knts....i imagine their dogfighting looking like when you race those little RC cars around http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIRC2rnwriA

except in the sky...

[Cyb0rg]

Flip ?

...

Here is a flip!

:D

 

Hey Hey.. who wants a gunzo with that guy? :music_whistling:

[Mugatu]

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI11-246V3.pdf

 

Here's AIR FORCE AIRCRAFT DEMONSTRATIONS (F-22) PROCEDURES, I assume it's still current. You can see that there are strict limitations on what can be done.

 

I think the procedures for the Mig/Su would be "BET YOU CAN'T DO THIS, WOOHOOO!!!"

 

Look up MiG-31, circa 1980... ;)

 

Rhino, I don't think most serious aviation fans, even those favoring the Russian jets, would doubt the F-22's dominance in the air. After all, it is a 5th generation fighter - 'nuff said. It's airshow routine, on the other hand, is not as impressive as what the Russian TVC fighters perform. I don't know if that has more to do with the aircarft's capabilities or show restrictions, but it's obvious the power coming out of those engines is huge and that is arguably more important in air combat than being able to do 3 flips in a row.