Add the ability to repair a runway

[Worrazen]

Clearing wreckages ... ofcourse omg how did I forget that, that really adds another big reason for this feature, thanks for the headsup.

[backspace340]

Errr Negative “Go to Alternate”

 

In most MP scenarios there are limited numbers of alternate airfields, and with the JSOW-C there have been occasions I've experienced where *every* available airfield has been rendered inoperable - runways, taxiways and apron, all bombed. The mission isn't 'won', the scenario continues, but one team can't take off - in that instance the only option available to server owners is to restart the server (and then ban weapons / behaviour) even if they'd rather add in a repair mechanic.

 

Although I could always take off on the dirt with the Hornet anyway lol

 

Yep though unfortunately it's a bit hit and miss which modules can drive on the grass - the F-14 gets stuck for example.

 

Doesn't this already happen, albeit at a glacial pace? :ermm:

 

I've never seen it happen - you might be remembering the behaviour from before the damage was synced. In those days (i.e. before 6 or so months ago) all you needed to do as a client was disconnect and reconnect from the server for the airfield to be repaired from your perspective.

[Harlikwin]

Actually no, temporary runway repairs can be carried out in a matter of hours by most NATO air forces (usually done by Army engineers) utilising gravel and other aggregate stored on/near the airfield in airfield damage repair piles and covered with roll out metal sheeting. The only time this isn’t the case if where area denial weapons (mines) are used alongside penetrating bombs. This is why JP233 had both cratering bomblets and mines.

 

And even where mines are used they can be cleared in hours or a few days at worst by competent army engineers.

 

This was an essential part of Cold War preparations.

 

This... Warpac engineers had similar capabilities.

[winchesterdelta1]

but you can't change the repair time of an aircraft, request repair menu.

the second are 170 not editable.

 

You have no clue what he is talking about it seems.

Lets make it simpel for you.

 

Because a LUA script can't repair a runway gradually. It's always instant. Just like the repair function to repair a plane. If they did not put code in for it to take 170 seconds it would be instant.

So if the option to repair a runway comes available it would be the same. But off-course with a runway you want some flexibility and to simulate how long it can take to fix it.

 

So what NeMOGAS say's is that mission designers can use this function to their liking. The mission designer can put conditions for a runway repair.

So a couple examples what the mission designer can script as conditions are as follows:

 

- After the runway becomes inoperable it will take 170> for it to be repaired (i hope more then that.)

- After the runway becomes inoperable a chopper needs to place 5 creates and wait for 45 minutes before the runway is (magically) repaired.

- After the runway becomes inoperable some repair trucks drive on the runway and they need to stay there for 60 minutes before the script kicks in and instantly repairs the runway.

- etc etc.

 

If you don't understand this then you do't have any clue how any of this works. Hint: It's exactly the same as how the aircraft repair works. Only the aircraft repair is as far as i know hard coded. But it will also instantly repair your plane if it was not for the timer. But this time you replace the timer with another condition or also just a timer.

 

It's a great idea form neMogas and simple to understand for almost everybody.

[Xilon_x]

a sheltered runway will never be like the one in its original state.

it will turn out to be a runway with repair patches.

 

to repair a runway, earthmoving equipment is required which must be specific.

here is an example of how many men and vehicles it takes to repair a track.

 

 

in addition to the fire trucks and ambulances that are in every civil and military airport, all the earth-moving vehicles used to repair a runway should also be included in DCS.

 

 

if for the repair of an airplane they never made a crane that lifts the plane to repair it and the mechanics with the spare parts.

 

if for refueling or APU units have never entered tanker trucks with fuel and men who insert the refueling pump into the plane.

 

imagine making a runway repair kit and very complex.

I believe that DCS will never do it.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Xilon_x

[mad rabbit]

Before we start talking about repairing the runway... wouldn't it be good to have a runway damaged option to attach a trigger in the mission editor?

 

This seems fairly complex as there is many different ways and areas to damage the runway c.f. repair which is just removal of the decals and the associated 'sink into ground' effect.

 

However taking this suggestion further for the sake of server owners:

In addition to repair, it would also be good if a mission flag could be set to allow or not allow runway damage entirely.

 

This would flag would be beneficial for more dogfight orientated servers.

[discwalker]

However taking this suggestion further for the sake of server owners:

In addition to repair, it would also be good if a mission flag could be set to allow or not allow runway damage entirely.

 

Sounds like my words. Would be a very useful feature for freeflight and training servers.

[ShadowFrost]

This seems fairly complex as there is many different ways and areas to damage the runway c.f. repair which is just removal of the decals and the associated 'sink into ground' effect.

 

However taking this suggestion further for the sake of server owners:

In addition to repair, it would also be good if a mission flag could be set to allow or not allow runway damage entirely.

 

This would flag would be beneficial for more dogfight orientated servers.

 

That is a pretty good idea.

[Kirkwood]

Great Idea

 

This seems fairly complex as there is many different ways and areas to damage the runway c.f. repair which is just removal of the decals and the associated 'sink into ground' effect.

 

However taking this suggestion further for the sake of server owners:

In addition to repair, it would also be good if a mission flag could be set to allow or not allow runway damage entirely.

 

This would flag would be beneficial for more dogfight orientated servers.

 

Definitely agree this would be an excellent addition!

[chnapo]

Has anything been implemented?

[FlankerKiller]

On 9/10/2019 at 1:49 AM, winchesterdelta1 said:

 

You have no clue what he is talking about it seems.

Lets make it simpel for you.

 

Because a LUA script can't repair a runway gradually. It's always instant. Just like the repair function to repair a plane. If they did not put code in for it to take 170 seconds it would be instant.

So if the option to repair a runway comes available it would be the same. But off-course with a runway you want some flexibility and to simulate how long it can take to fix it.

 

So what NeMOGAS say's is that mission designers can use this function to their liking. The mission designer can put conditions for a runway repair.

So a couple examples what the mission designer can script as conditions are as follows:

 

- After the runway becomes inoperable it will take 170> for it to be repaired (i hope more then that.)

- After the runway becomes inoperable a chopper needs to place 5 creates and wait for 45 minutes before the runway is (magically) repaired.

- After the runway becomes inoperable some repair trucks drive on the runway and they need to stay there for 60 minutes before the script kicks in and instantly repairs the runway.

- etc etc.

 

If you don't understand this then you do't have any clue how any of this works. Hint: It's exactly the same as how the aircraft repair works. Only the aircraft repair is as far as i know hard coded. But it will also instantly repair your plane if it was not for the timer. But this time you replace the timer with another condition or also just a timer.

 

It's a great idea form neMogas and simple to understand for almost everybody.

Honestly i would love to see some sort of repair, script like the one you describ in option three. And make it for everything  bridges railroad tracks bases whatever.  But the timer only counts down while they're "on the job".  Would give a reason to show back up and "interrupt" them. 

[upyr1]

On 9/10/2019 at 1:50 AM, Xilon_x said:

a sheltered runway will never be like the one in its original state.

it will turn out to be a runway with repair patches.

 

to repair a runway, earthmoving equipment is required which must be specific.

here is an example of how many men and vehicles it takes to repair a track.

 

 

in addition to the fire trucks and ambulances that are in every civil and military airport, all the earth-moving vehicles used to repair a runway should also be included in DCS.

 

 

if for the repair of an airplane they never made a crane that lifts the plane to repair it and the mechanics with the spare parts.

 

if for refueling or APU units have never entered tanker trucks with fuel and men who insert the refueling pump into the plane.

 

imagine making a runway repair kit and very complex.

I believe that DCS will never do it.

 

that would be awesome, until then I figure a timer would be a good idea.

On 9/9/2019 at 4:44 AM, Minsky said:

DCS is not a certified training platform. It's a simulation game, where you can die and instantly respawn, mindlessly waste jets and munition worth tens of millions of dollars, and repair a burning wreck of a plane in just three minutes.

I wish they would change request repair to request new plane It can take a while to rebuild a plane, but you can rearm and roll out a new plane quickly I'll start a new thread 

Edited March 3, 2022 by upyr1

[Callsign112]

11 hours ago, upyr1 said:

that would be awesome, until then I figure a timer would be a good idea.

I wish they would change request repair to request new plane It can take a while to rebuild a plane, but you can rearm and roll out a new plane quickly I'll start a new thread 

 

It would certainly help with making it appear more realistic.

[Ash Lynx]

This seems something that would definitely would be required for the dynamic campaign as well, runway bombing in order to disable an airbase although same effect could be acquired for that by loading up the next turn as a new mission, either way this would be very useful for MP. Maybe a "remove crater in x meters" function would be alot helpful this way you can not only set up a "repair runway script" but also a "repair taxiway/parking" script. Provides the same result as the OP suggested but with more versatility. 

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, Ash Lynx said:

This seems something that would definitely would be required for the dynamic campaign as well, runway bombing in order to disable an airbase although same effect could be acquired for that by loading up the next turn as a new mission, either way this would be very useful for MP.

And that's pretty much the reason why, as neat as this whole idea would be (if scriptable, otherwise what we have already works well enough), runway repairs aren't really needed for campaigns. We don't even know what ED mean by “dynamic campaign” and if it's just an extension of the campaign concept that is already in the game, then the repair functionality is already covered. The next mission will start with fully functional runways by default, because that's how they always are.

If anything, a dynamic campaign would require the exact opposite: the ability to programmatically damage runways so they don't get fixed immediately in the next sortie.

Of course, you can still do this manually, of sorts, by setting off explosions on each runway, but that's a pretty fugly solution compared to being able to directly set an airport's damage state as part of the core mission setup functionality.

In addition, such functionality would also work for what's being suggested here: making it a triggerable or at least transferable state, and would tie neatly into what everyone probably thinks of as a dynamic campaign: the kind of on-going theatre-wide thing that [other sim] has set as the gold standard.

[LooseSeal]

4 minutes ago, Tippis said:

We don't even know what ED mean by “dynamic campaign” and if it's just an extension of the campaign concept that is already in the game, then the repair functionality is already covered. The next mission will start with fully functional runways by default, because that's how they always are.

I think we have a reasonable idea of what they're planning. And it seems rather different from anything currently in DCS. For example, I believe their intention is to run a dynamic campaign which is 'persistent' - their ultimate goal being multiplayer campaigns, then that would entail anyone being able to join the multiplayer server and just drop into the action. So there would be no "next sortie" - just a constant series of them, with the action never really ending. That's what I imagine based on what they've told us thus far.

So the repairs would need to happen in real time.

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, LooseSeal said:

I think we have a reasonable idea of what they're planning.

Do we?

They haven't exactly spoken about it extensively. We have a lot of assumptions and “I imagine” and other dreams.txt, but from ED's communication, there's mainly a lot of humming and hawing and hedging and suggesting things that would be neat. Nothing particularly solid.

We already have multiplayer campaigns, and there is nothing inherent in that notion that requires any kind of on-going world sim or ability (or need) to drop in.

For all of what we actually know, the “dynamic campaign” could effectively just be the current quick mission engine, but expanded and keeping track of some kind of mission end state to be fed into the next round of mission generation. Most would certainly hope for more, but in terms of actual explicit and solid info on what's being planned or made, we can't really assume much more than that.