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On the subject of VR Improvements...


NineLine

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Norm, I imagine you are a bit gun shy after all the noise about that last go-round, but is there any chance you could tell us a little something about how the Vulcan thing is coming along?

 

Is it looking like there's a good chance it will happen this year? If yes, any chance it might make it in H1?

 

A lot of people expect Vulcan to be a magic bullet. I don't know anything about game engines and such but I do not believe in magic bullets. Hopefully the improvement will be pretty significant, but I wish folks would keep their expectations reasonable. With enough hype, disappointment can be guaranteed!

 

 

I'm not banking on any improvement in terms of FPS, but probably more stable FPS / fewer stutters as things are spread across more cores.

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I'm just curious... about the the way things are rendered in VR, is there some sorting of objects, based on distance from virtual cameras, so that calculations on far objects are not made twice ? Cause if (very) close things appear (very) differently from left eye to right eye, it's not the case when looking further ahead.

I'v done a bit of 3D programming years ago but only for studies/hobby, so... just curious of how it works :)

10700K / 4090 / 32Go / 34" curved Gigabyte / Reverb G1 / Thrustmaster hardware among other harderware things.

I find your lack of FPS disturbing...
C8<]

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not to kick a dead horse here, however:

 

When testing some fps and settings for my Reverb, I did find quite a difference in fps based on the map, so there is certainly a correlation here.

 

ie. on a popular mp server (104th).

 

mission #1 Caucus - spawn in at Sochi. 45 fps. Flight was consistent 43-48 fps

 

mission #2 Persian Gulf - spawn in at Kish. 60 fps. Flight was consistent 55-60 fps

 

Both flown in F-15. So I do fully believe the map itself is a major part of the fps.

 

I got the same kind of results by the old stutter when you look out right or left over cities, the caucasus was by far the best map PG and nevada about the same .

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think I speak for most DCS users that if ED would run a kick-starter for a new VR multi-core engine that would bring performance improvements we would all love to help drive this sooner rather than later.

 

Graphics and VR performance are starting to show their age a little especially with Flight Simulator 2020 coming out this year.

Crowd funding would enable ED to bring in more staff to push a new engine out a lot sooner.

 

Many of us would love to help and get VR DCS where it should rightly be in 2020.

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especially with Flight Simulator 2020 coming out this year.

 

Question will be if you can run FS 2020 like you see it in the teaser video's.

My guess is you can't, at least not at the current hardware state. I can't remember any flightsim coming onto the market which i could run with all option set to high (or higher).

 

Also, in a video (which i can't find anymore) from an alpha tester he said neither the clouds (way less volumetric and less variation in colour) nor the terrain (way to flat) looked as good as in the teaser video's.

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Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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On the subject of VR Improvements...

 

Question will be if you can run FS 2020 like you see it in the teaser video's.

My guess is you can't, at least not at the current hardware state. I can't remember any flightsim coming onto the market which i could run with all option set to high (or higher).

 

Also, in a video (which i can't find anymore) from an alpha tester he said neither the clouds (way less volumetric and less variation in colour) nor the terrain (way to flat) looked as good as in the teaser video's.

 

 

 

And so far they aren’t going to do VR. Trying to compare what we have here with what might come out in the future doesn’t make sense. DCS will continue to improve on ED’s timeframe. Especially when fs2020 is a civilian flight sim with no complex weapons.


Edited by ricktoberfest
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  • 3 months later...
Especially when fs2020 is a civilian flight sim with no complex weapons.

 

Yet... prepare for some competition :P

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  • 1 year later...
On 2/12/2020 at 5:20 AM, Lange_666 said:

 

Question will be if you can run FS 2020 like you see it in the teaser video's.

My guess is you can't, at least not at the current hardware state. I can't remember any flightsim coming onto the market which i could run with all option set to high (or higher).

 

Also, in a video (which i can't find anymore) from an alpha tester he said neither the clouds (way less volumetric and less variation in colour) nor the terrain (way to flat) looked as good as in the teaser video's.

 

I tried out FS2020 thinking a Modern games got to run better in VR.

It was a disappointing shitshow all around.

  1. Performance was horrific and I had to compromise on visuals a lot.
  2. The real world map which sounds very exciting looks about how you would expect a zoomed in closeup of bing maps to look when you are down in the mud.
  3. Tooling around in a cessna that can't take more than a 30 degree bank safely isn't exactly thrilling compared to doing mach 1.8 in a Tomcat.
  4. Oh lord the controls setup, so awful.
  5. 150 gig install just to get started.

Not my cup of tea and not at all competition for DCS.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You need all those resources whilst just in the menus?

Don B

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2 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

Is it possible to have a completely Empty Space , no SU-27 in the Hangar ( All Black ) Only the Selection Menu. To save as much PC resources as possible. 🤔

Why?

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3 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

The SU-27 in the VR Hangar is not a Photo but a 3D Model that always runs in the background and is constantly being rendered and unnecessarily consumes PC resources.

I would rather have the option to save 1-2 FPS without a 3D hangar.

 

Pretty sure it is not running while you are flying no?

Don B

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3 hours ago, Robi Hobby said:

The SU-27 in the VR Hangar is not a Photo but a 3D Model that always runs in the background and is constantly being rendered and unnecessarily consumes PC resources.

I would rather have the option to save 1-2 FPS without a 3D hangar.

I don't think the DCS hangar is the same as SteamVR Home or Windows Mixed Reality Home where the graphical environment is being run in the background all the time.  But, I don't know that for sure.  Not sure 1 or 2 FPS of performance gain would be worth messing with anything over.  You wouldn't be able to see that with your eyes.

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Found something! The VR Hangar runs in the background when you are flying!

With a VR Hangar F-18 Mod I had light reflections when flying because the F-18 in the hangar had its Taxi light on and I saw it constantly like a curtain of light when flying the UH-1H.
Now my VR Hangar is empty and black and I have a stable 40fps with the F-16 in Nevada Map. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Robi Hobby said:

Found something! The VR Hangar runs in the background when you are flying!

With a VR Hangar F-18 Mod I had light reflections when flying because the F-18 in the hangar had its Taxi light on and I saw it constantly like a curtain of light when flying the UH-1H.
Now my VR Hangar is empty and black and I have a stable 40fps with the F-16 in Nevada Map. 

 

 

Yeah but that is with a mod, what about just the stock hangar?

Don B

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Don't have the F-18 Hangar Mod anymore and only use the Original.

I am only using the New Empty Black Mod today. I'll watch if it's better that way (OpenBeta)

Have a lot of Modules and will try it out if it can save a few FPS.

 

Have only i7 7700K  32MB RAM RTX 2070   VR Rift S.

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1 hour ago, Robi Hobby said:

Don't have the F-18 Hangar Mod anymore and only use the Original.

I am only using the New Empty Black Mod today. I'll watch if it's better that way (OpenBeta)

Have a lot of Modules and will try it out if it can save a few FPS.

 

Have only i7 7700K  32MB RAM RTX 2070   VR Rift S.

 

can you share your Empty Black Mod?

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I saw the VR improvements Team Fusion is doing for IL-2 COD, and I'd love to see them in DCS, especially the rotation amplification as I'm a bit stiff to the neck these days and find it difficult to check my deep six without doing an hour of yoga every day.

 

TL;DR; these are the improvements presented (that aren't supported by DCS):

- Rotation amplification (like with TIR, you can adjust the progressive reaction of the view as you rotate your head)

- Cockpit limiting your movement. No more sticking your head through the glass; makes for better immersion

- Forced IDP

 

Check it out:

 


Edited by moggel
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10 hours ago, moggel said:

especially the rotation amplification as I'm a bit stiff to the neck these days and find it difficult to check my deep six without doing an hour of yoga every day

 

Join the club!

 

Try Necksafer, originally developed for that other sim but works very well in DCS if you're using SteamVR

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/67985-simple-tool-to-check-your-six/

 

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On 9/12/2021 at 5:02 PM, Robi Hobby said:

 

check the link

 

 

I tested this just now, it makes very little difference in terms of performance to CPU or GPU frame time:

 

    Frametime in ms  Delta From Baseline  
Test Baseline GPU CPU GPU CPU  Changes
82 Test 75 9.52 8.55     Average for Baseline 2.7.6, FSR1.1, Windows 11, Hotfix Shaders
95 Test 82 9.62 8.38 -0.11 0.17 Blank VR Hanger

 

depending on how CPU vs GPU bound you are it might make as much of .25 FPS difference ...  but generally anything less than .5ms is just as likely to be margin of error

 

p.s. I will add that in the Menu it makes a difference of performance... but menu performance isn't something I generally worry about.


Edited by speed-of-heat
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  • 1 month later...

One of the biggest potential areas of improvement in VR is the way interaction is handled with the switches,knobs and gauges. Basically, right now it's very clunky... Super easy to make a mistake because they auto-trigger. VTOL VR does this perfectly both with what happens when hand goes unto stick (binds to stick) as opposed to the opposite, as well as how clicking/feedback is done when interacting with the cockpit.

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