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On the subject of VR Improvements...


NineLine

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On 1/16/2022 at 2:29 PM, chrisnlnz said:

I was looking to upgrade my 1080ti to a 3070ti (opportunity with a good price at the moment). Now I've just seen that DCS in VR is pretty horrible when it comes to VRAM consumption, see also more-or-less dead thread:

My 1080ti has 11 GB of VRAM whereas the 3070ti only has 8GB. In all other respects the 3070ti should be a big upgrade over the 1080ti, but will the 8GB be problematic with DCS apparently being a VRAM sink? I run a Reverb G2. 3080+ are not really an option due to huge price difference, in which case I'll wait with any upgrade.

 

 

At the moment GPU upgrades only get you so far. DCS seems to be very, very pipeline bottlenecked like XP11 was before vulkan. I have 3080ti and same medium settings that give me 140-200 fps on a flat screen at 4K res give me 30 fps in vr, busy supercarrier deck for example. GPU usage is at like 60% and CPU at 20%. Looking at a clear sky i can get about 55 in VR and even that is not enough to make VR feel smooth.

 

So no matter what you upgrade to you will have disappointing performance unless you do something like 50% render scale and all settings at minimum.


Edited by Grodin

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/18/2022 at 5:45 PM, Grodin said:

 

At the moment GPU upgrades only get you so far. DCS seems to be very, very pipeline bottlenecked like XP11 was before vulkan. I have 3080ti and same medium settings that give me 140-200 fps on a flat screen at 4K res give me 30 fps in vr, busy supercarrier deck for example. GPU usage is at like 60% and CPU at 20%. Looking at a clear sky i can get about 55 in VR and even that is not enough to make VR feel smooth.

 

So no matter what you upgrade to you will have disappointing performance unless you do something like 50% render scale and all settings at minimum.

 

You just need to understand how to configure it to get the most from your hardware. I promise you if your GPU is stuck at 60% loaded then your CPU is bottlenecking, which means 1 core is burning at 100% but you wont see that because multi-thread scheduler of the OS. Try set your DCS process to an affinity that only uses core 2,4,6 then you will see. And it also may help. If you have many cores offset the VR server/runtime to 4,6,8 or 6,8,10 and that will unlock much more vr frames and fix some of your micro-stutters (if you have any).

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And has been for a long time... I'm not saying it should be quick and easy, just that I am not expecting it soon...


Edited by speed-of-heat
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1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

And has been for a long time... I'm not saying it should be quick and easy, just that I am not expecting it soon...

 

Fair enough. I had missed that. 

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8 hours ago, Willie Nelson said:

Apparently @NineLine says that Multicore is in early testing too……

When and where?

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...
On 12/23/2022 at 7:52 PM, ChariotOfFLAME said:

Thanks. Looking forward to multithreading this year, especially for VR and the benefits for multiplayer servers should be significant. Stating the obvious I know but I’m pleased ED are moving in the right direction. 

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  • 2 months later...

Panasonic/Shiftall MeganeX headset delayed. Big surprise! Now scheduled for July (2023, I believe) release. Consumer version weighs in at 1699 USD. As I recall the January 2022 CES announcement was for a May 2022 release at about 800 USD. Twice as long and twice the price. At least the postponement periods are getting shorter.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/25/2022 at 2:05 PM, Hoirtel said:

Also really, really important in DCS VR to make sure that you reduce background load on the CPU. All those updaters and background apps really can affect DCS. If you haven't killed these off then do so, you have gains to make as your description clearly shows you were/are CPU bound.

Endly someone bringing up the issue...

People are desperate with RAM/VRAM usages solution but how many take system/OS optimization seriously?

When you see the amount of processes your system is running which wouldn't be if it was actually set up for gaming, you understand, but I guess it's easier to buy more RAM or upgrade for a GPU with more VRAM, or at least that is what some are lead to believe.

I've got rid of (nearly) everything I don't need in Windows and still have <> 55 apps running, some actually reinstall themselves, other are so hard to disable it's an issue on its own...

Get MORE RAM? Nope, get the RAM your CPU will work better with and 32GB are enough, only it cost (new) the premium, at least for a DDR4 system.

As for apps, how many of those do my system really need to run?

startup.jpg


Edited by Thinder

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Getting there.

Setting-1.jpg

settings-2.jpg

Little by little, settings and performances are improving, I ust done a flight test on Caucasus map as usual, tree-top flying, high settings, very smooth, and I managed to get my CPU Cores to boost as well which they couldn't do before BIOS update being stocked at 3600Mhz.

getting-there.jpg

 

Here, same DCS settings, reduction of the Maximum GPU Frequency by 10%.

Approach to the valley, I dive breaking right in full PC right after this moment, from then on I fly at tree top above 500Kt most of the time, the environment on the side tells me if settings are too high, so far so good.

DCS-2023-05-28-11-20-02-889.jpg

In the valley as low and fast as possible, this is where redraw is very hard on the system.

DCS-2023-05-28-11-21-44-438.jpg

Zooming up to check on environment visuals.

DCS-2023-05-28-11-22-15-972.jpg

We can see than the GPU frequency went down from 2764MHz to the low 2600MHz, GPU usage is still 100%.

When the FPS went at its lowest, visuals were still very smooth, in fact I didn't notice the lower FPS, only the visual quality degraded slightly with some blur in the HUD area making it more difficult to navigate at this altitude and speed...

In the most demanding part of the test flight, not all the CPU Cores were where I expected them to be, in the top screenshot, before lowering the GPU frequency, all cores clocked at 4450MHz, not in the middle of the valley where two of them went down to 3560MHz.

Perhaps on test is not enough to draw a conclusion, but apart for losing FPS, I see no advantage in reducing the GPU frequency, and it appears that visual quality also decreases with lower GPU performances.


Edited by Thinder

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Gradually decreasing Maximum GPU Frequency from my Personal Game settings:

-15%. 2,614MHz setting.

DCS-2023-05-29-10-43-27-112.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-45-14-987.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-45-47-309.jpg

>>>

20%. 2,460MHz.

DCS-2023-05-29-10-49-35-744.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-51-20-514.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-51-56-284.jpg

>>>

Cockpit and HUD views at 2,460MHz.

DCS-2023-05-29-10-54-51-831.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-54-55-506.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-55-01-365.jpg

DCS-2023-05-29-10-55-06-192.jpg

>>>

Something that doesn't show in those screenshots is the slight amount of fogging I get in the middle of the screen in the valley at very low altitude, making it a bit harder to navigate safely at this altitude and speed, game is still playing real smooth with very little flickering.

As I was expecting the difference made by lowering the GPU frequencies doesn't make much of a change in the CPU frequency (6% from Maximum GPU Frequency I use normally, while I lowered the Maximum GPU frequency to 15% and 20%), but FPS and quality of the visual quality (fogging) are lower.

Conclusion: I'm not too sure what I am looking at, the CPU Cores doesn't seem to be much affected by the GPU performances, from 67% to 73% under the same conditions and settings on the other hand, there is room for improvement for developers in order to allow the Cores to work a bit harder...


Edited by Thinder
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21 hours ago, Thinder said:

the CPU Cores doesn't seem to be much affected by the GPU performances

It is the other way around, the CPU is feeding data to the GPU.  This is why we saw FPS improvement with the introduction of MT.  Having a core dedcated to the graphics pipeline made a difference of almost 1ms in GPU frametime for me.

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40 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

It is the other way around, the CPU is feeding data to the GPU.  This is why we saw FPS improvement with the introduction of MT.  Having a core dedcated to the graphics pipeline made a difference of almost 1ms in GPU frametime for me.

It's not what I am saying, I know the CPU controller is managing channels bandwidth, what I wanted to demonstrate is that the Core Clocks are or are not dependent of the GPU clock and if they are to what degree, this was the idea, and the CPU can only feed as much data to the GPU as itself can process, which is why we see some difference.

All in all it shows that there is room for improvement when it comes to the Cores frequencies and usage, the lowest 27 FPS, 4225MHz and 9% usage is where progress can be made, my Cores have been recorded on screen at 4450MHz and above, so there is an unnecessary loss of performance there that can be changed with further MT tweaking.

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Your GPU is loaded to 100%, in such scenario CPU can downclock without any loss of performance. It's idling between frames anyway, waiting for GPU to finish its work on the previous frame.

CPU can change frequency several hundred times per second. Whatever you see on your OSD, it's just a rough approximation. CPU and GPU frametimes are the primary performance indicators in VR.

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1 hour ago, Thinder said:

the lowest 27 FPS, 4225MHz and 9% usage is where progress can be made

As pointed out by @some1, your GPU does not have any headroom, it is at 100% usage.  No matter how you spread the workload between CPU cores, the result will be the same.  That is not to say that the software side can't be improved further, OXR vs SVR is a good example.  I think there's the performance improvement potential until we get the 7090ti...😉


Edited by WipeUout
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3 hours ago, some1 said:

CPU and GPU frametimes are the primary performance indicators in VR.

Yep, that's what makes the difference between lows and high, I added Frametime to OSD, we will see what we got.

But seriously who would have thought that a GPU running at 2764MHz would become the bottleneck of an 5800X 3D?

So better frametimes are the answer to better performances, although my settings are still insanely high compared to the majority of GPUs usad in DCS and also it has the disadvantage to have to feed a Pico4, probably one of the most demanding headsets for a GPU...

Researching Frametimes reduction.

Meanwhile, I'm playing around with the GPU VRAM frequency which was only boosted conservatively and already see some improvements at 4K 2 X MSAA.

 


Edited by Thinder

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Simply turn off MSAA completely and work with higher resolutions (Supersampling). See how your system can handle resolutions over 3Kx3K pe eye. MSAA is a stoneage method, very inefficient and demanding. I'm also eagerly waiting for DLSS as the next feature to tune performance and image quality.

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