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Stuttering in relationship with TrackIR/Windows10/DCS 2.5


Repsol2k
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Dear DCS Community.

 

I'm following the "Stuttering" topics now for several months. I also tried to find answers or to see how we can find a possibility to solve these issues. This topic, especially because of use of TrackIR, has a wide range and a huge impact for many players around here.

 

Every PC and every Windows is different in which components u have, which programs u use etc. Therefore its nearly impossible to find a perfect answer for our issues. Even completely reinstalling DCS didnt gave me a satisfying result.

 

For me i found a solution which i know isnt possible for every body and which sounds kind of brutal but gave me a nearly 100% satisfying solution.

 

Install a clean and fresh version of your Windows10

 

This was the only way for me to get a crisp and smooth DCS experience. At the moment i only have installed the necessary programs to run my PC and DCS 2.5. U dont even need to get rid of your old Windows because a invest into a 250gb SSD to run windows on it isnt that much anymore.

 

I have fairly descend hardware installed but at the moment with only the neccesary stuff to run Windows and DCS its totally fine.

 

My Specs:

Windows 10 64bit Pro

Intel i7 7700k @4,6 Ghz

ASUS Z270H Gaming Mainboard

ASUS GeForce GTX 1070 ROG Strix OC 8GB Gaming

32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX schwarz DDR4-2666 DIMM CL16 Dual Kit

ASUS PG278QR Monitor

TrackIR 5

850 Watt Enermax Revolution87+ Modular 80+ Gold

Nvidia Driver: 399.24

Samsung 250gb SSD 840 Pro Series (Windows10)

Samsung M.2 500gb SSD 960 EVO (DCS)

 

Attachted u see my ingame settings(sorry its in german) and a screenshot of how it looks for me.

 

I get a solid 60FPS in Multiplayer with 20+ Player on Caucasus even on ground. FPS locked via Riva Statistic Tuner.

 

Also with my Oculus Rift and a OTT Tool 1.5 PD , ingame 0.5 PD, i got solid 45 FPS with average DCS Settings. But this i didnt tested a lot so i have not enough info's to give for this. Also in Multiplayer scenario.

 

I know that this solution is not possible for everybody but if u get the chance to do this i highly recommend to do. This also give me more information that in my opinion to search the problems for stuttering inside DCS was wrong because my Windows was the bottleneck. I see that many of u noticed FPS loss in the last Update of DCS 2.5 Open Beta but there were also a lot of Windows updates in the past few weeks. This gave me the inertial kick to try out a clean reinstall of Windows.

 

Keep in mind that the statements are my opinion i cant give u a spreadsheet with proofed figures to tell that this was to 100% the reason because i had a lot of shit installed on my pc and even u delete every single file of a program u never get rid of it until u do a clean reinstall of windows.

 

If u have any further question of what i installed now to run everything let me know but as i said i only installed the basic stuff.

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Screen_190924_054044.thumb.jpg.cf1043018714bf38e3ca7f8e54c96ab6.jpg


Edited by Repsol2k
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  • ED Team

Hi

 

what antivirus are you using?

 

Users have found recently the malewarebytes real time scan is creating problems for DCS, Excluding the DCS folder has helped many.

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Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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Kaspersky AntiVirus. Yeah i read that Thread and this is also for many a solution. As i said my explanation should be last solution if nothing works. For me this was the way to get rid off the stuttering.

 

As well i noticed to search the problem not in DCS .

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The small stutters are from Track ir when under 120 / 60Hz fps.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202541

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176131

 

 

These days I also lock the game to 60 fps and can hold this and it's seems a lot smoother.

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I have the same problems. I'll give it a try with some of these tips. However, how do I lock a certain update frequency? :huh:

 

 

These days I also lock the game to 60 fps and can hold this and it's seems a lot smoother.

| Strix Z490-H | i5 10600K | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Gaming X | 32GB 3000MHz DDR4 | 256 Gb SDD Samsung 840 Pro + 480Gb SDD Kingston + 500 Gb HDD | Acer Predator Z1 2560*1440p | TM Warthog HOTAS | 2x MFD Cougar | Buddyfox A10 UFC  | TrackIR 5 | Win10 Pro 64-Bit Swedish |

 

| A-10C Warthog | AJS-37 Viggen | F-86F Sabre | F/A-18 Hornet | KA-50 Blackshark | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H Huey | FC3 | CA | WWII Assets Pack | Supercarrier |

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I have the same problems. I'll give it a try with some of these tips. However, how do I lock a certain update frequency? :huh:

 

Best done in Riva Tuner Statistic Server, which is part of MSI Afterburner.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 3x 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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The small stutters are from Track ir when under 120 / 60Hz fps.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=202541

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176131

 

 

These days I also lock the game to 60 fps and can hold this and it's seems a lot smoother.

 

Yeah i know. It didnt gave me before i made a fresh reinstall of Windows not the result it wanted. And yeah its right that its recommended to lock and hold steady 60FPS. Which im currently doing via Riva Tuner Statistic Server. But if u cant hold the 60FPS because windows is doing spooky things in the backround u will dip under 60FPS even u drop 2-3 frames TrackIR dont like this.

 

Therefore my intention was to get rid of all shitty things which get there way into my windows during the past months/years. U can make researches and investigations to sort out every spooky program in your system but u will never get it as clean as a fresh install.

 

I tried everything apart from windows OS itself. I tried RTSS, pagefile, high/ultimate power management, several nvidia drivers (with DDU Tool), fresh install of DCS, several settings for DCS and also Nvidia Inspector, BIOS update, different clocking programs for my CPU and GPU, different USB Plugs for TrackIR, several settings for TrackIR, closing Kaspersky AntiVirus, different SSD also M.2, deactication of dcs.exe compatibility fullscreen optimization and several thigns which i dont remember now. So i would say i tried everything.

 

And i came to the conclusion that my Windows was my bottleneck to get rid of every single little amount of stutter. I know u will never get it to 100% but for my i would say im at 99,9995% were i want to have it.

 

And this topic which i created shouldnt start a discussion to were to look at its only a way which i didnt saw during the several post's related to Stuttering with DCS and TrackIR. And it should be the last solution if somebody has the chance to go this way and to give it a try.

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Basic things is that you need to lock the FPS rate at your monitor refresh rate.

If the refresh rate is 60, then lock it at 60. If you can't keep that then lock it at 30. Anything in between 30 and 60 "will" give stutter.

If you can't keep that 60 on your screen, set it to 30 (divisions by 2 always works) and don't look back and try to get it back up there (you maybe can by lowering your graphical settings but then you also lose), chasing that higher refresh rate is a pure waste of time that you could spend flying and enjoying instead of getting frustrated over a bit of framerate loss.

The complexer the program gets, the better hardware you need to keep up and there will always be a moment when you lose this fight if you keep the same hardware. That's what I've learned over the +20 years flightsimming... been there done that.

 

 

PS: where talking about stutter caused by the game/hardware itself, not stutter caused by other means like anti-virus interrupting your game software on a fixed interval or so.


Edited by Lange_666

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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Basic things is that you need to lock the FPS rate at your monitor refresh rate.

If the refresh rate is 60, then lock it at 60. If you can't keep that then lock it at 30. Anything in between 30 and 60 "will" give stutter..

 

Your statement is not entierely true : you can lock the fps at 60 but keep your monitor running @165 hz ( as in my case) which would result even smoother than syncronizing fps with monitor refresh rate :smilewink:

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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The usual culprit in stuttering in TrackIR and Oculus Rift is sunlight or other lights coming from a window or lamp.

 

 

I am only tackig about trackir : you don't have any idea of what you're taking about.....:smilewink:

  • CPU : Intel i7 8700k@5.0ghz cooled by Noctua NH-D15 / Motherboard:Asorck Z370 Taichi / RAM: 32GB GSkill TridentZ @3600mhz / SSD: 500GB Nvme Samsung 970 evo+1 TB Sabrent Nvme M2 / GPU:Asus Strix OC 2080TI / Monitor: LG 34KG950F Ultrawide / Trackir 5 proclip/ VIRPIL CM2 BASE + CM2 GRIP + F148 GRIP + 200M EXTENSION /VKB T-Rudder MKIV rudder /Case: Fractal Design R6 Define black

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Calling everything stutter could be really confusing for noobs. I wouldn't define a frame rate drop as stutter even though that term could be loosely applied to anything that is not smooth.

 

If you fly low over a city or trees and the frame rate drops that's normal. A good method I used before I got my VR was tune to 60 with mirrors. If you came to a complex area, flip up the mirrors and it gave you a nice cushion to maintain 60fps with high settings. Once you are back out over the desert or ocean you can flip the mirrors back down.

 

Microstutter, stutter, hitching, and frame rate drops are the terms that I see used most often. There is no definitive source for the nomenclature.

 

Putting the frame rate and frame time graphs up in Afterburner are the best way to see it without thinking you are going crazy or placebo effect. The small variations in frame times are obvious in the graph. If the frame time graph is smooth the experience is smooth.

 

60 frames/second = 16.6 ms frame time

 

The per second average can mask lots of variation in frame time and still read a constant 60 fps.

 

Causes of stutter/microstutter I've seen on my machines include controller conflict, power settings, background programs, interpolations settings on my panel, and not locking frame rate to 60fps expecting TrackIR to work with G-sync/Freesync/VRR on high frame rate monitors. They all had a distinct visual signature and frame time graph.

 

Unfortunately there are a lot of noobs coming into DCS expecting their shiny new G sync or free sync monitor to work with TrackIR and it won't and they waste a lot of time and get frustrated chasing gremlins.

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Your statement is not entirely true : you can lock the fps at 60 but keep your monitor running @165 hz ( as in my case) which would result even smoother than syncronizing fps with monitor refresh rate :smilewink:

On my side it is because I can't verify your statement. My monitor's refreshrate is only 60Hz so...i only have my own experience at hand.

But then, i believe you...


Edited by Lange_666

Win10 Pro 64-bit, i7-4770K @ 4.5 GHz, Corsair H100i, AsRock Extreme4, ASUS Strix 1080Ti OC 11GB, 32 GB DDR3 G.Skill 2400. Monitors: LG 27GL850-B27 2560x1440 + Samsung SyncMaster 2443 1920x1200, HOTAS: Warthog with Virpil WarBRD base & hegykc MFG Crosswind modded pedals, TrackIR4, Oculus Rift S.

Personal Wish List: A6 Intruder, Vietnam theater, decent ATC module, better VR performance!

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Yeah stuttering itself needs first a definition but u cant make a definition which is for verybody the same. For example some arent seeing differences in a normal 1040 Youtube video and a 1040@60FPS video. This is our human beeing. everybody is different.

 

Maybe someone would say i dont see stuttering were others would say they see it. Its the same like someone would say ah VR isnt sharp enough were other would say the picture is clearly sharp. This depends on your eyes which is a human factor.

 

As i said earlier this option which i presented in the first thread is only the last way if someone tried already everything and have the possibilities to give this a try.

 

The good thing is that we only can sort out problems if we speak to each other were its obvious for others to see that one person had a problem and how they fixed it. Thats why we have a community to share and solve together problems.

 

In the past months we already gained a lot of information were to look at and we had now after several months the first sticky topic (malwarebytes). This is in my opinion a hint to share more about our experiences to help others and maybe to create later on a "guide" were to look at if someone got a "stuttering" related problem.

 

I get sick of it when someone has a question , found a solution but you never here from them again because for them the problem is solved and they may not care about others who maybe has the same problem.

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I have a G-sync monitor that refreshes at 144hz and TrackIR has been working fine. For the past 2-3 weeks my fps has dropped from ~70 to around 40-45. I can also see the GPU working at under 50% where it used to be at almost 100% at times. When I look around in the cockpit now, the frames are not keeping up. I don't know if that is from the lower fps or from something interfering with TrackIR.

I will however do a fresh install of Windows since I never have (had the computer for about two years now) and it's probably good for a lot of things. It'll be interesting to see if things get better.

| Strix Z490-H | i5 10600K | MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB Gaming X | 32GB 3000MHz DDR4 | 256 Gb SDD Samsung 840 Pro + 480Gb SDD Kingston + 500 Gb HDD | Acer Predator Z1 2560*1440p | TM Warthog HOTAS | 2x MFD Cougar | Buddyfox A10 UFC  | TrackIR 5 | Win10 Pro 64-Bit Swedish |

 

| A-10C Warthog | AJS-37 Viggen | F-86F Sabre | F/A-18 Hornet | KA-50 Blackshark | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | UH-1H Huey | FC3 | CA | WWII Assets Pack | Supercarrier |

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I have a G-sync monitor that refreshes at 144hz and TrackIR has been working fine. For the past 2-3 weeks my fps has dropped from ~70 to around 40-45. I can also see the GPU working at under 50% where it used to be at almost 100% at times. When I look around in the cockpit now, the frames are not keeping up. I don't know if that is from the lower fps or from something interfering with TrackIR.

I will however do a fresh install of Windows since I never have (had the computer for about two years now) and it's probably good for a lot of things. It'll be interesting to see if things get better.

 

That symptom is usually caused by your PowerSettings in NVcpanel. Set it to "MaximumPerformance" instead of "Balanced".

 

Your CPU, if it is a 7thgen or later Intel, does not really care about power settings, they will Turbo to the highest setting so fast you cannot see a difference anymore. With 6th gen or earlier models that DOES make a difference. I have no info on how Ryzen 1.-3- gen behave there.

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 3x 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

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