GPatricks Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, redcoat22 said: I was looking for "Can't be done yet because X but some dev said that a cool new fix was in the works". Varjo indicated they were aware of the issue but I didn't know who said that. I'm hoping the "cool new fix" not only negates the need for the WMR tool but also adds a scaling function to headset movement, basically integrating VRNeckSafer into the app itself.. Edited February 10, 2022 by =LD=Icer Asus Z790-PLUS D4, Corsair 1000X PS / Intel i9-13900KF @5.8Gz - Corsair H150i Liquid CPU cooler, 64GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @3192mhz / 2TB M.2 NvMe Boot Drive (DCS World Beta installed here), 1TB M.2 Data drive, 1TB WD SATA drive, Zotac Gaming GeForce RTX 4090 Trinity 24GB - Nvidia 551.76 driver / 3 Samsung LC32G53TQWUXEN 32" 7680x1440 at 144Hz / Win11 Pro Ver. 23H2 - Build 22631.3374 TIR 5, TM Warthog HOTAS\VirPil stick base, MFG V3 Crosswind Pedals, TM MFDs on 2 8" Lilliputs/ Simgears ICP / Varjo Aero VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WriterJWA Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) On 10/2/2019 at 3:26 AM, BIGNEWY said: Hello everyone For those of you having problems with windows mixed reality and cross eyes the team have enabled a debug tool for the next update. To enable you will need to add this line to your autoexec.cfg force_cross_eye_recovery_tool = true The autoexec.cfg can be found here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config If you do not have one create one using notepad++ and save as .cfg Once enabled the window will appear when you start DCS in VR then adjust to your own preference and click save and close. this will place a VR preference file for your headset in your saved games DCS folder. The debug window will not return unless you remove this file from your saved games if you wish to adjust again. We hope this will help some of you using windows mixed reality who are experiencing problem with miss alignment. Thank you. Can anyone help me here?? I've done exactly this, but I'm not getting a debug window. I've searched for anything close to "HMD.lua" and removed it from the folders, still nothing. What am I doing wrong? (I have an HP Reverb G2 with the cross-eyed issue...) Edited March 7, 2022 by WriterJWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 7, 2022 Author ED Team Share Posted March 7, 2022 6 hours ago, WriterJWA said: Can anyone help me here?? I've done exactly this, but I'm not getting a debug window. I've searched for anything close to "HMD.lua" and removed it from the folders, still nothing. What am I doing wrong? (I have an HP Reverb G2 with the cross-eyed issue...) Hi are you sure you have created the autoexec.cfg correctly ? I have attached one below place it here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config autoexec.cfg Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said: Hi are you sure you have created the autoexec.cfg correctly ? I have attached one below place it here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config autoexec.cfg 44 B · 2 downloads I can't get the debug window to show up either. I had previously used this to swap top/bottom of both lenses of my Aero to help in distortion. Today's update to the Aero provided some fixes for distortion and now looks off in my headset. I can't get the debug to show up to swap lenses back? Tried deleting the line in my autoexec.cfg that did not help. Edited March 7, 2022 by dburne 1 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 7, 2022 Author ED Team Share Posted March 7, 2022 Just now, dburne said: I can't get the debug window to show up either. I had previously used this to swap top/bottom of both lenses of my Aero to help in distortion. Today's update to the Aero provided some fixes for distortion and now looks off in my headset. I can't get the debug to show up to swap lenses back? Tried deleting the line in my autoexec.cfg that did not help. check you dont already have a saved vr device profile in the saved games dcs folder, if you do delete it, the tool will work again. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: check you dont already have a saved vr device profile in the saved games dcs folder, if you do delete it, the tool will work again. Don't see one in DCS Open Beta saved games folder. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 7, 2022 Author ED Team Share Posted March 7, 2022 15 minutes ago, dburne said: Don't see one in DCS Open Beta saved games folder. if you already have a file it will be named after your headset. In the example here it was my old dell visor. If you dont have a file it should work when you have the autoexec in place. What headset do you have? Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainfreeze Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, dburne said: Don't see one in DCS Open Beta saved games folder. yours should be called hedy.lua Edited March 7, 2022 by Brainfreeze 1 1 i9 14900K / 64GB / RTX 4090 / Varjo Aero / Winwing Orion2 + F15EX / Virpil Wrbrd + Alpha Stick + ACE pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said: if you already have a file it will be named after your headset. In the example here it was my old dell visor. If you dont have a file it should work when you have the autoexec in place. What headset do you have? Varjo Aero. I had used it previously to flip the top/bottom lenses to correct for distortion. Varjo issued an update today to software/firmware to correct distortions, so I need to be able to swap the top/bottom lenses back to where they were originally but can't get debug tool to show up in image to be able to do so. Currently image is way distorted now for me. Would a repair of DCS swap those lenses back to original position? Currently DCS is now unplayable for me as I can't seem to find a way to get those lenses swapped back to original state. Edited March 7, 2022 by dburne Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 35 minutes ago, Brainfreeze said: yours should be called hedy.lua Ah ok I do have a file in there named that - will try deleting it and see what happens - thanks. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPatricks Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, dburne said: Ah ok I do have a file in there named that - will try deleting it and see what happens - thanks. Don - Been off the Varjo discord since my order got pushed back and I cancelled, how is it coming along, have they fixed some of the complaints? Asus Z790-PLUS D4, Corsair 1000X PS / Intel i9-13900KF @5.8Gz - Corsair H150i Liquid CPU cooler, 64GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @3192mhz / 2TB M.2 NvMe Boot Drive (DCS World Beta installed here), 1TB M.2 Data drive, 1TB WD SATA drive, Zotac Gaming GeForce RTX 4090 Trinity 24GB - Nvidia 551.76 driver / 3 Samsung LC32G53TQWUXEN 32" 7680x1440 at 144Hz / Win11 Pro Ver. 23H2 - Build 22631.3374 TIR 5, TM Warthog HOTAS\VirPil stick base, MFG V3 Crosswind Pedals, TM MFDs on 2 8" Lilliputs/ Simgears ICP / Varjo Aero VR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainfreeze Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, =LD=Icer said: Don - Been off the Varjo discord since my order got pushed back and I cancelled, how is it coming along, have they fixed some of the complaints? Very much so. Personnally I never had any big distortion issues but none whatsoever now (and I am not blind!) Edited March 7, 2022 by Brainfreeze 1 i9 14900K / 64GB / RTX 4090 / Varjo Aero / Winwing Orion2 + F15EX / Virpil Wrbrd + Alpha Stick + ACE pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Brainfreeze said: yours should be called hedy.lua Ok that worked a charm, lenses back to original setting and absolutely zero distortion in DCS in menus or gameplay. Not only that but seems I gained some in the performance department as well with today's Aero update from Varjo. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed-of-heat Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Just delete the lua file from your saved games directory... SYSTEM SPECS: Hardware Intel Corei7-12700KF @ 5.1/5.3p & 3.8e GHz, 64Gb RAM, 4090 FE, Dell S2716DG, Virpil T50CM3 Throttle, WinWIng Orion 2 & F-16EX + MFG Crosswinds V2, Varjo Aero SOFTWARE: Microsoft Windows 11, VoiceAttack & VAICOM PRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainfreeze Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, dburne said: Ok that worked a charm, lenses back to original setting and absolutely zero distortion in DCS in menus or gameplay. Not only that but seems I gained some in the performance department as well with today's Aero update from Varjo. Cool! I still needed to re-swap top/bottom on my side 1 i9 14900K / 64GB / RTX 4090 / Varjo Aero / Winwing Orion2 + F15EX / Virpil Wrbrd + Alpha Stick + ACE pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Varjo has done an incredible job with today's update. Have tested now with my three flight sims, working great! I was a little worried about DCS but once I successfully made the lens swap back to original position it became perfect as well. Edited March 7, 2022 by dburne Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Corvus Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Brainfreeze said: yours should be called hedy.lua You sir, are a figurative life saver Kit: i9 10900k, Rog Strix RTX 4090, Asus Rog strix Z490 Mobo, 64 GB, Varjo Aero HMD running Open VR Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas, Thrustmaster Pendular rudder peddles MODS: Pretty much all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WriterJWA Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 15 hours ago, BIGNEWY said: Hi are you sure you have created the autoexec.cfg correctly ? I have attached one below place it here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config autoexec.cfg 44 B · 5 downloads Thanks! That did it. For whatever reason, Windows wasn't recognizing the file I created as a .cfg file. Yours worked perfectly. Many thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jive Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 On 10/2/2019 at 8:26 AM, BIGNEWY said: Hello everyone For those of you having problems with windows mixed reality and cross eyes the team have enabled a debug tool for the next update. To enable you will need to add this line to your autoexec.cfg force_cross_eye_recovery_tool = true The autoexec.cfg can be found here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config If you do not have one create one using notepad++ and save as .cfg Once enabled the window will appear when you start DCS in VR then adjust to your own preference and click save and close. this will place a VR preference file for your headset in your saved games DCS folder. The debug window will not return unless you remove this file from your saved games if you wish to adjust again. We hope this will help some of you using windows mixed reality who are experiencing problem with miss alignment. Thank you. Thanks so much for this, not entirely sure what I did but tweaking the sliders has made a huge improvement! Peripheral vision on instrument scans is way clearer. Much appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero2005 Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 Is there any way to accurately set this without just mashing the buttons or guessing values? Whenever I have VR zoom enabled, especially at the higher zoom level, I feel a little fish-eye/offset? and generally have to close one eye. I tried playing with the swap top/bottom and left/right and just can't get it to feel "right" -- this is on a Reverb G1. I am using OpenComposite (not SteamVR). as well, any overlays like the WMR home menu/screen, or the OpenXR tools overlay feel really weird, like I'm crosseyed trying to view the menu vs the world. System: Intel 14700k on MSi z690 DDR4 pro, Arctic Liquid Frozer II 360mm AIO, 64gb ddr4-3600mhz CL16, Gigabyte 4090 Winwing Orion2 F-15EX/F-16EX combo, VKB T-Rudder Mk.IV, TM Warthog (Shelved) 2x 256gb Vertex 4 SSD's, 2x 1tb Sabrent NVMe PCIe 4.0 SSD's, 1x 4.0tb Silicon Power NVMe, 1x 4tb Seagate HDD VR: Quest 3 (Current), HP Reverb G1 (Shelved) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted April 24, 2022 Share Posted April 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, zero2005 said: Is there any way to accurately set this without just mashing the buttons or guessing values? Whenever I have VR zoom enabled, especially at the higher zoom level, I feel a little fish-eye/offset? and generally have to close one eye. I tried playing with the swap top/bottom and left/right and just can't get it to feel "right" -- this is on a Reverb G1. I am using OpenComposite (not SteamVR). as well, any overlays like the WMR home menu/screen, or the OpenXR tools overlay feel really weird, like I'm crosseyed trying to view the menu vs the world. All you should have needed to do is swap top/bottom of both lenses and then save. Zoom is always going to look off like that, it is just a downside to the current zoom we have. What counts is how it looks in normal view. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony86 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 hey Just one question. i own a g2 and of course i use the crosseye tool to set up my vision correctly in the headset. i swap top and bottom on each lense (as noted on many advices). so i can FEEL my vision is less painful but i was wondering is there was a software or anything else that help you to fine tune your vision. something you can visualize (lines or whatever) instead of just an impression like "i feel it is good now". and also sometimes i feel my left eye need a little more adjustment but i dont know how to adjust it (increase/decrease which value etc....) thanks for your feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony86 Posted April 30, 2022 Share Posted April 30, 2022 On 10/21/2019 at 4:47 AM, RedX said: Trying to solve the misaligned eyes -issue by using the debug tool provided gave rather good results but not perfect when simply copying the settings of one eye over to the other and saving the conf file. I think that I found the solution / bug (?) at least in my case after trying to figure out what exactly to tune in order to make things truly match. Now I have minimal eye strain and practically no need to adjust the IPD setting in DCS VR options menu. The best values I found by experimenting are reached simply by just resetting to defaults and swapping the top/bottom screen edge values for both eyes. After that the DCS display matches perfectly with the SteamVR and overlay displays. Note that the perfect matching requires for me that the forced IPD adjustment is clicked off in DCS VR options. See attached screenshot. Note that this is for Valve Index. Apparently the calibration values carried by the headset are reported with vertical limits in reversed order (or DCS reads them reversed). This might vary from headset model to another, as many people have no issues with misalignment. Alternatively, maybe only some of the headsets have sufficiently asymmetric calibration that it gets messed up noticeably. (I'm just speculating here.) In case of remaining IPD mismatch, further tweaking may be possible by changing both DCS IPD setting and the screen edge values synchronously (or maybe not). Or perhaps something in steamvr. I did not pursue this further as I'm within 1mm of the DCS default IPD of 70mm. My current good configuration was found and verified by turning on the steamvr boundary (i.e. chaperone) and setting the view centerpoint / seat position so that the chaperone seems to be sitting on some detailed feature of the cockpit. The chaperone can be forced on at: SteamVR menu - Developer - Debug Commands - collision_bounds_toggle. Now, if the configuration is correct, the chaperone lines crossing the cockpit dial remain accurately fixed on top of each other in any position, rotation or tilt of head while wearing the headset. Even a small miscalibration can be perceived by looking e.g. at a cockpit dial down and to the side and turning and tilting the head around as in some head orientations the relative positions of the cockpit dial and chaperone lines appear to be different from other head orientations or positions. When config is good, changing head orientation causes no shift in the apparent relative positions of cockpit dials and chaperone lines. Hope this helps. EDIT: Late note for anyone who found this post by googling etc. The short version is below: All I'm doing nowadays is the following. First, I use the cross-eye tool (add the line in the above post to autoexec.cfg in Saved Games\DCS\Config), then click "SWAP TOP AND BTM" on both left and right, and then click to save the config file. Now DCS will not ask for it again. Second, I've adjusted the IPD to match my eye distance in real life in SteamVR's settings in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\config\steamvr.settings (default location). Of course this second part does not work if you don't use SteamVR. In any case, the line to change is near bottom: "ipdOffset" : -0.0064999999999999997, The value is difference of your IPD to 63mm in units of meters. E.g., in my case my real IPD is 69.5mm which is 6.5mm = 0.0065m more than the default (63mm = 0.0063m) so I enter the figure -0.0065 (larger -> negative value) here. Someone with 61mm real life IPD would enter the number 0.002. Steam automatically rounds the value to some multiple of something, it does not matter (that's why so many figures "9" in there). At least in my case everything matches after that and I can keep the custom IPD option in DCS options off. hello how do get the reference lines? any specific plugin? i see behind you have a menu to trigger lines. where it comes from please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerPL666 Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 (edited) Im using Samsung Odyssey + HMD, and WMR Debug tool since DCS 2.7.11.21408.1 (17.03.2022 - Apache relise) my setup file, with suposly HMD brand in it, was named: HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20.lua And after last update DCS 2.7.12.23362 (28.04.2022) name is: Oculus Rift CV1.lua I never use/connect/had any other VR googles than my Samsungs Odyssey +. Attaching files after swiching both eyes with "swap TOP and Bottom" if maybe it helps. HP Reverb Virtual Reality Headset G20.lua Oculus Rift CV1.lua Edited May 1, 2022 by TylerPL666 HP Reverb G2, Samsung Odyssey Plus+, EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA GAMING 12GB GDDR6X, 32GB RAM, Intel i7-7700k 5.1GHz (OC), Hydro Series™ H100i v2 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler, Buttkicker 2 Gamer+SSA Sound Module, Virpil MangoosT-CM2 Base+Grip, Logitech X56 Throttle +Rudder, Logitech Z906 5.1, LG OLED 55'' 4K 120Hz A10-C II, AH-64D, AV88NA, F-14A/B, F-16C, F/A-18C, Ka-50, Mi-24, Mi-8, SA342, UH-1H, SuperCarrier, Persian Gulf, Nevada, Syria, Simshaker for Aviators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DroptheHammer Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 On 4/30/2022 at 11:13 AM, Tony86 said: hello how do get the reference lines? any specific plugin? i see behind you have a menu to trigger lines. where it comes from please? I think he covered it in this paragraph.. “The chaperone can be forced on at: SteamVR menu - Developer - Debug Commands - collision_bounds_toggle. Now, if the configuration is correct, the chaperone lines crossing the cockpit dial remain accurately fixed on top of each other in any position, rotation or tilt of head while wearing the headset. Even a small miscalibration can be perceived by looking e.g. at a cockpit dial down and to the side and turning and tilting the head around as in some head orientations the relative positions of the cockpit dial and chaperone lines appear to be different from other head orientations or positions. When config is good, changing head orientation causes no shift in the apparent relative positions of cockpit dials and chaperone lines.” makes me a little disappointed because I’m using OpenXR and don’t have this feature to use.. maybe if I set the alignment in steamVR it’ll carry over? I don’t know of a similar OpenXR function. New Setup : 13900K, Asus ROG Strix 4090, 64GB of DDR3600C14, 4x 2TB ADATA NVME, HP Reverb G2, Virpil Alpha on WarBRD, Virpil TM3 throttle, Monolith External Amp, DT 1990 Pro Headphones & TrackIR v5 Old Setup: 12900KS @ 5.5 , EVGA FTW3 Hybrid 3090, 64GB of DDR3600C14, 4x 2TB ADATA NVME, HP Reverb G2, Virpil Alpha on WarBRD, Virpil TM3 throttle, Monolith External Amp, Philips X2HR Headphones & TrackIR v5 Old Old Setup: 9900KS @ 5.2, EVGA FTW3 3090. 32GB of DDR3866, 3x 1TB ADATA NVME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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