Sokol1_br Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 :joystick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyJoJoJunior Posted October 3, 2019 Share Posted October 3, 2019 Coming in 2030 :D Seriously, this would be great though. I'm not too crazy about the Brunner's size, price and lack of DCS support. Would love a VKB FFB stick. Not replacing my MS one until I find something better. i7 6700k @ 4.6, Gigabyte Z170X-UD3, 32GB DDR4 2666, GTX 1070, Rift S | MS Sidewinder FFB2 w/ TM F-22 Pro Grip, TM TWCS Throttle, VKB T-Rudder Mk. IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_neo Posted October 4, 2019 Share Posted October 4, 2019 Yeah VKB...go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Very much needed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMGZ06 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I would be very much interested in this as well. System Specs: 13900K, Strix Z790 Gaming E, MSI 4090 Sprim Liquid X OC'd, 64gb Gskill Trident Z DDR5, Samsung 980 PRO M.2 SSD,. Winwing throttle, Winwing panels/MIPs and VKB GF3/MCGU stick, MFG Crosswind V2, HP REVERB G2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Great video. I terribly miss the feedback I got with MSFFB2 joystick, but really need the precision and range of motion found in the VKB Pro. It's crazy that no one has made a FFB joystick in the last 20 years. As he mentioned, FFB is now standard in racing wheels and has a tremendous effect on immersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzer Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I would love to upgrade from my ffb sidewinder. However as explained in my of my past posts there is a known issue with dcs and ffb that means using the trim with a curve set can make it very sensitive. This needs to be fixed for a new ffb RTX 2080ti, I7 9700k, 32gb ram, SSD, Samsung Odyssey VR, MSFFB2, T-50 Throttle, Thrustmaster Rudder Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWard Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 If there used to be force feedback joysticks and FF is plentiful in the racing sim hobby, why are there no force feedback sticks available today? How hard would it be to create some kind of aftermarket add-on? Is it only hardware that's needed, or would DCS have to add some kind of coding to tell the hardware what to do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirusAM Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) Force Feedback? If there used to be force feedback joysticks and FF is plentiful in the racing sim hobby, why are there no force feedback sticks available today? How hard would it be to create some kind of aftermarket add-on? Is it only hardware that's needed, or would DCS have to add some kind of coding to tell the hardware what to do? A ffb joystick is very different from a normal spring one... So no conversion is viable... Also there is a patent regarding FFB which stopped a lot of development (should be expired now). About racing wheels...the market is bigger so manufacturers happily paid feed for the patent. IIRC brunner base doesn’t use classic ffb tech and drivers (and for this is not subject to fees) The downside is that it doesn’t work out of the box and need specific support... As far as I know it doesn’t work with DCS if not thanks to an export.lua and with many limitations Edited June 7, 2020 by VirusAM R7-5800X3D 64GB RTX-4090 LG-38GN950 Valve Index VPForce Rhino FFB, Virpil F-14 (VFX) Grip, Virpil Alpha Grip, Virpil CM3 Throttle + Control Panel 2, Winwing Orion (Skywalker) Pedals, Razer Tartarus V2 SpeedMaster Flight Seat, JetSeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcaa0g Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would like to see a force feedback joystick with a light centering spring instead of being centered by the motors. That was always a bad concept IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo72 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I would like to see a force feedback joystick with a light centering spring instead of being centered by the motors. That was always a bad concept IMO. hmmm? The whole point of FFB is that you dont have a spring that pushes the stick to an arbitrary center position with an arbitrary centering force. This doesnt exist in real aircraft, in non flyby wire planes the stick is just connected to the control surfaces and air pushes against them which then pushes the stick. There is no centering force when you are stalled or on the ground, there is no fixed center position, it all depends on your trim surfaces and AoA. The stick goes where ever the control surfaces are pushed to by the air. And yes, +100 for a new FFB stick. The flight sim market may be small compared to racing (is it though?), but if its large enough for a dozen hotas manufacturers many selling $400+ sticks and throttles and pedals, surely it can support at least one modern FFB stick? And FFB pedals. Spring centered pedals with notches are stupid, they need to have FFB too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streakeagle Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 FFB stick and pedals would be the bomb. I would love it if VKB could make a stick. I trust their engineering quality. I expect a high price... but for the price it better work right, especially with DCS World. If DCS has FFB issues, then the whole question is moot for me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcaa0g Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) hmmm? The whole point of FFB is that you dont have a spring that pushes the stick to an arbitrary center position with an arbitrary centering force. This doesnt exist in real aircraft, in non flyby wire planes the stick is just connected to the control surfaces and air pushes against them which then pushes the stick. There is no centering force when you are stalled or on the ground, there is no fixed center position, it all depends on your trim surfaces and AoA. The stick goes where ever the control surfaces are pushed to by the air. And yes, +100 for a new FFB stick. The flight sim market may be small compared to racing (is it though?), but if its large enough for a dozen hotas manufacturers many selling $400+ sticks and throttles and pedals, surely it can support at least one modern FFB stick? And FFB pedals. Spring centered pedals with notches are stupid, they need to have FFB too. Hm? That's why I said "light". And a Husky a-1bd, Commander 690b and Citation II say Hi. Every force feedback joystick had a centering spring strength option and it was terrible as it always tried to estimate the center. We are not talking real aircraft and in the end, these are games, even DCS. Edited June 12, 2020 by zcaa0g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldur Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I would like to see a force feedback joystick with a light centering spring instead of being centered by the motors. That was always a bad concept IMO. How can this be bad being the thing that makes FFB so great? Most users don't use those sticks still because they shake which is a nice addition as well (pre-stall buffeting!), but because of the dynamic spring that can't be achieved without motors. It's bad enough that there haven't been any sticks for ages, except for the G940 which got dumped by Logitech in no time because literally noone bought it thanks to the issues it had. Shouldn't have tried saving a few cents on wire length and crappy pots that they tried to circumvent with a cheeky software solution that would make the axes blank out for a bit until they'd start reacting again. What we also need, are FFB driven rudder pedals and even throttle units. As for the pedals, I guess it's pretty much clear why. Having them trimmable would just kick the rear. I remember the pain with the Ka-50 back in the day - for ages. Had to use an Autohotkey script made by PeterP until ED, rather late, added an option to exclude the pedals from trim which was godsent. Having FFB pedals that would trim just like the stick does, would be better and more realistic though. In case of the throttle however, the magic lies within the possibility to adjust friction and even simulate detents that could be dynamically placed just where they should be. No more fiddling around with weird custom curves to make it match the TMWH detent... well, I guess that will stay a dream. BTW I concur with the "DCS needs to be fixed" in regards of axis curves. Also the FC3 planes trim weirdly, especially the Flankers which you simply can't trim out past ~ 380 IAS. The point here is that there aren't that many FFB sticks around anymore and it has become low prio. If VKB would bring on an FFB base compatible with their stick grips as well as the TM ones, such a huge part of the community would be able to upgrade their setup and many could have FFB which would make it more important in the dev process. Someone needs to kick the thing off. A few years ago I was hoping for those space sims to have FFB support to get that done, just to be let down. They decided not to support FFB because of the lack of sticks present. Could have been a seller though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vertigo72 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I had hopes when I saw iris dynamics magnetic force feedback sticks a few years ago: But no one seems to have to taken the bait for (PC) flight sims so far, maybe its too expensive or too power hungry, or there is some other issue with the tech. Havent even seen a kickstarter. Then I got my hopes up when I saw a video of the CEO of I think (?) VKB being taken up in a real airplane and being surprised at how heavy the stick is and how it "feels". I thought maybe that would open his eyes why we need force feedback. Still waiting and hoping.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icaro_07 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZnarF Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 (edited) Also patiently waiting for a FFB stick + rudder... clearly enough market for the product to be successful... FFB racing wheels prove -since 20 years!- that the concept works and is not so costly... When the first FFB stick(s?) will be there, all non-FFB sticks will only be a thing of the past, like for the wheels... Edited November 3, 2021 by ZnarF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakarian Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Main difference is on FFB wheels, there is only single axis of movement which is fairly simple to do. For the FFB flight sticks (better said gimbals), you need to be able to move it in 2 axes which significantly complicates things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 Plus they have been tried before for flight sticks and not so successful. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZnarF Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 (edited) The Microsoft FFB2 stick was really a great stick, 20 years ago - it proves that the concept works perfectly, and is doable at an incredibly affordable price! I've still 2 of these in case one broke... if only Microsoft would redo the same, but with full HOTAS buttons / hats!!! I'me almost sure a MS FFB3 could happen... I so much miss the true feel of ww2 birds, and the punch of the nose 30mm of the 109!! (and eager to feel a properly emulated heli stick...) Edited November 7, 2021 by ZnarF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 4 hours ago, ZnarF said: The Microsoft FFB2 stick was really a great stick, 20 years ago - it proves that the concept works perfectly, and is doable at an incredibly affordable price! I've still 2 of these in case one broke... if only Microsoft would redo the same, but with full HOTAS buttons / hats!!! I'me almost sure a MS FFB3 could happen... I so much miss the true feel of ww2 birds, and the punch of the nose 30mm of the 109!! (and eager to feel how a properly emulated heli stick...) Well I didn't think they would ever do another flight sim - so who knows... Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts