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First impressions of the Viper EA


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I agree, my first contact with DCS 16 was a blast. And the plane is just "plug and play" if you have a Warthog hotas. Fun fact, after flying with F/A and A-10 I was able to successfully operate GBU laser guided delivery with no manual/tutorial whatsoever - VERY easy to manage so far! (thank you Lockheed :))

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After years of flying "other" F16 sims, what I find odd is the DCS FPM and Steering Cue do not intersect, i'm used to putting the cue IN the FPM, not alongside, is this due to a particular Block being modeled?

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The majority of this thread is embarrassing to read imo. If you want the Uber-Real totally true to life F16 experience go and buy one jeez :music_whistling:

 

ED should hold their (most likely sore) heads high with their efforts so far and the team are clearly on the ball with checking bug reports etc through the initial release window. Man, sometimes with 3rd party devs you file a bug report and don't hear back for weeks.

 

Rest assured that the probably hundreds(thousands?) of users who haven't been commenting here are too busy enjoying what they have access to and relishing the prospect of more development to come

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After years of flying "other" F16 sims, what I find odd is the DCS FPM and Steering Cue do not intersect, i'm used to putting the cue IN the FPM, not alongside, is this due to a particular Block being modeled?

 

Mine have aligned though require constant correction, I may be wrong but it felt like wind was a factor, and also the steering cue moves as you roll out the turn, it takes some getting used to.

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I've read thousands of FM posts like these over the years. In the end people will end up having brain aneurysms and / or heart attacks trying to make a sim fly how they "think" a sim should fly.

 

Life is more enjoyable if you just learn to fly the sim (even if the FM changes over time) rather than fight the sim.

 

Unless you're an actual fighter pilot, you're never going to know the difference anyway.

 

You do not need to be actual anything to recognise that 2 things do not compare in the way they should.

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Well, this is a step up from the original Falcon, which I played :E

 

I too didn't think we'd see an F16 in DCS. Well done ED, damn fine work getting it out the door. I look forward to the evolution of this bird.

 

Not surprising of course is the usual 'it's released too soon, not enough content!', after the 'release it now!' of course, 'flight model seems off!' (lol, *never* seen that before in my 30 years of simming). I guess all I'd say is chill everybody, *everything* is a work in progress....

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After years of flying "other" F16 sims, what I find odd is the DCS FPM and Steering Cue do not intersect, i'm used to putting the cue IN the FPM, not alongside, is this due to a particular Block being modeled?

 

I think what you're experiencing is turbulence. DCS World Models it ( see pages 75 - 79 of the DCS World manual ) and it's definitely active in the Instant Action Cold - Start mission.

 

I've been flying around for a few hours and it's certainly "appears" that the Viper is affected by mountain wave turbulence when flying low level. Don't know if DCS World models that specifically though.

 

 

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I'm excited. My first experience with an F16 sim was with Falcon for the IBM8088 in 1989, so I have been waiting for some time for a high fidelity sim. That it is in VR makes it even more enjoyable :) :)

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I think what you're experiencing is turbulence. DCS World Models it ( see pages 75 - 79 of the DCS World manual ) and it's definitely active in the Instant Action Cold - Start mission.

 

I've been flying around for a few hours and it's certainly "appears" that the Viper is affected by mountain wave turbulence when flying low level. Don't know if DCS World models that specifically though.

 

Not sure, but I also activate the Drift Cutout (DRIFT C/O) Switch to keep the info centered. "This switch is used to center the flight path marker and pitch line when they drift out of view from crosswinds or sideslip." Only flew once for 20 minutes in Free Flight so it may just be me..

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You do not need to be actual anything to recognise that 2 things do not compare in the way they should.

 

If there are glaring differences then yes absolutely. However saying aircraft X is out turing aircraft Y because it's doesn't match the charts is not enough, there's too many factors at play to just come out say it's wrong, e.g. was the test done with a human opponent or AI? What's the skill level of the pilot conducting the test? etc. etc.

 

And if all things are equal - simply submit a bug report. :joystick:

 

 

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We (The Flying Kiwis) gave it a good test tonight and I think everyone came away with a really positive outlook on it. Totally understand its early access so we didn't ask too much of it, just checked out how it flew, what it could do performance wise, bit of weapons testing, understanding (learning) new systems etc... It all seemed to work pretty good. Nice to have a targeting pod this early, GBU's seemed to work fine. Need to get the air refueling issue fixed though, we want to put some miles on this thing! Overall personally I am more impressed than I thought I would be. Looking forward to its development :thumbup:

The Flying Kiwis - Since ages ago...



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I’m sorry ED—keep up the great work

 

I’m sorry ED for all this childish posting. It honestly breaks my heart to see some of this toxicity starting to bleed and poison our small community.

 

Feed back is simple: the bird is less than 24 hours OLD, and in early alpha

Real lives always matter, moreover when you can’t comprehend why they are more important than a simulator

 

This bird outstanding and just like with the 18, I can’t wait to watch it develop and grow into the final product.

 

This outstanding piece of art is well beyond where I expected on release and I thank you so much ED for allowing us the opportunity to be a part of its development. If not for early assess, I’m sure we would be waiting another 1 to 2 years for the model to be offered.

 

I never expected the bird to be online pvp ready, moreover, be able to compete with models that are years older. What I expected is to start leaning to fly it, form up with it, all the while learning to cold start, taxi, takeoff, and land. I can master these basic skills while other systems and dynamics begin to take form and are implemented.

 

Keep doing great work, and as a disabled vet, I salute you and your team. I had the last couple of years ripped from me and DCS allows me to still experience, and be a part of, that world still. More importantly, experience is in a way that is safe, and free of triggers.

 

Thank you so much for all you do Nineline and Wags—and please pass my congratulations on to the team and tell them Great Job and keep up the rest work.

 

Respectfully

Neuro

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I just flew a Hornet against another flight instructor from my squadron flying the F-16. The Hornet pretty much OVERLY dominated the F-16 in its current state. The FM at speeds below 400kts down to 225kts are just wrong, regardless of whether the charts being used match up. Since it is EA, I understand if things are not correct right away. I just hope it will be addressed in the near future.

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I just flew a Hornet against another flight instructor from my squadron flying the F-16. The Hornet pretty much OVERLY dominated the F-16 in its current state. The FM at speeds below 400kts down to 225kts are just wrong, regardless of whether the charts being used match up. Since it is EA, I understand if things are not correct right away. I just hope it will be addressed in the near future.

Explane more pls

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Yes, KGB knew about it for many-many years ago and what the Soviet guides for pilots says

 

 

 

Sorry, it is in Russian... can not help.

 

The source:

http://airwar.ru/other/bibl/su27mh.html

 

Well what do you do before you have the actual manuals? You make educated estimates - which is obviously what the Russians did initially, I've seen their initial estimates for the F-15 as well. It wouldn't have taken them more than a decade or two before they would've had access to the official performance charts however. And today the charts are spread all over the internet for any civilian to see, so it's pretty safe to say it isn't a secret to anyone anymore. (BMS Falcon FM was openly based on it)

 

 

As for the F-16's actual performance, as I told wags it should as pr. the manuals outperform the F-15C quite noticably in sustainable load factor at any speed where the sustainable load factor falls below the 9 G limit, yet ingame it's the exact reverse, the F-15 dominating the F-16 in ACM. I already sent Wags the original documentation to illustrate this.


Edited by Hummingbird
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I’m sorry ED for all this childish posting. It honestly breaks my heart to see some of this toxicity starting to bleed and poison our small community.

 

Feed back is simple: the bird is less than 24 hours OLD, and in early alpha

Real lives always matter, moreover when you can’t comprehend why they are more important than a simulator

 

This bird outstanding and just like with the 18, I can’t wait to watch it develop and grow into the final product.

 

This outstanding piece of art is well beyond where I expected on release and I thank you so much ED for allowing us the opportunity to be a part of its development. If not for early assess, I’m sure we would be waiting another 1 to 2 years for the model to be offered.

 

I never expected the bird to be online pvp ready, moreover, be able to compete with models that are years older. What I expected is to start leaning to fly it, form up with it, all the while learning to cold start, taxi, takeoff, and land. I can master these basic skills while other systems and dynamics begin to take form and are implemented.

 

Keep doing great work, and as a disabled vet, I salute you and your team. I had the last couple of years ripped from me and DCS allows me to still experience, and be a part of, that world still. More importantly, experience is in a way that is safe, and free of triggers.

 

Thank you so much for all you do Nineline and Wags—and please pass my congratulations on to the team and tell them Great Job and keep up the rest work.

 

Respectfully

Neuro

 

This is probably the most valuable post I came across on this forum. Glad you enjoy your Sim flying and all the best to you mate. Actually we can consider ourselfs lucky. We can be heroes even though every single one of us would get the shits just by arming a real ejection seat.

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Guys, NO LIVES ARE ENDANGERED BY THE SIM MATCHING THE FREELY AVAILABLE PEFORMANCE MANUALS!

 

Also I am not criticising anyone, or being ungrateful, all I am doing is providing feedback (bug reporting) what is an obvious discrepancy with freely available official performance data so that we can have the best & most accurate flying representation of the real aircraft possible (!!). I also made it clear that the F-16 module is EA, so I expect things to change, but in order to make sure that happens you also have to point out the discrepancies.

 

So please, stop spreading this nonsense about ungratefulness & criticism of Wags & ED which NEVER took place! It's effin infuriating to witness...


Edited by Hummingbird
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Been flying the Falcon from BMS a while back and bought the F-16 in DCS. Transitioned really nicely and felt the exact same.

 

I would like to state that I have an immense bias for Heatblur because of their excellence for customer service. However, I cannot leave ED in the dust for when it comes to this module. Even though the Hornet took way longer than anyone wanted, and to an extent still wish it was complete, it certainly shows that it has immensely helped with programming the systems of the F-16C.

 

I don't know what else to say. I don't usually have textures sway my decision of buying a module as a selling point, I'm more into the systems functionality aspect of it. It feels real, it acts real in areas where the systems are modelled properly. It's going to be incomplete and people will not like it, because it just came out. If people want to complain about exterior lights or the way it looks in VR, at least wait half a year to a full one before you talk about how bad the product is on not having IFF 5 minutes after purchase.

 

Overall: it's good ED, but please take your time if you need to. We're not in a hurry to get something like this.

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I feel like all these talks about flight model stem from f16 / f18 engagements where people are trying to fly the f16 like they fly the f18.

 

They are not the same plane. Pretty certain cw lemoine (sp?) Had a video talking about dogfights between the two (as he's flown both) and mentioned how each pilot has to play to their planes strengths for an even fight.

 

You don't master a plane in a couple hours, sorry to dash your dreams

I'll be busy learning how this module flies and having a blast living out my childhood dreams while you complain on a forum. :)

 

To the ED team, THANKYOU. Dream come true, keep it up, continue doing the best you can, and thank you for even taking the time to answer the people that try to say you did it wrong. Those of us that love what you do see and appreciate your interactions with the community even while facepalming the armchair experts criticisms...

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This is probably the most valuable post I came across on this forum. Glad you enjoy your Sim flying and all the best to you mate. Actually we can consider ourselfs lucky. We can be heroes even though every single one of us would get the shits just by arming a real ejection seat.

 

 

Ditto. Worth remembering that this is ultimately an entertainment product, and I'm just grateful that we have the opportunity to play a sim realistic enough to tread carefully around classified stats.

 

 

Cheers, ED and testers - don't know how you find the patience for the fans, sometimes :thumbup:

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I just flew a Hornet against another flight instructor from my squadron flying the F-16. The Hornet pretty much OVERLY dominated the F-16 in its current state. The FM at speeds below 400kts down to 225kts are just wrong, regardless of whether the charts being used match up. Since it is EA, I understand if things are not correct right away. I just hope it will be addressed in the near future.

 

Yes, we have been having the same results.

 

Atm the F-14, -15, -18, Mirage, MiG-29 & Su-27 are all quite comfortably beating the F-16 in ACM in DCS. So something is obviously amiss, it's just about helping the devs to pinpoint from where the issue originates exactly.

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Hello, knowing that this Sim is in early access i will expose my first experience in this Viper.

Performances are pretty bad, Low acceleration ( weird) hi drag feeling. Rate of turn not as the PK graphics etc. Don't know why the aircraft is performing poorly comparing ti the FA-18c, when well known the big difference is the acceleration capability of Viper vs Hornet.

Nope, performances are not the Viper should have.

Go to the Viper's Dash-1 and you will see what i'm talking about.

Thxs, cheers.

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