First impressions of the Viper EA

[The Falcon]

I can not believe that there are people who do not accept right observations and dispute with phrases like: you are criticizing! you are not grateful to the ED! etc .. this is called being fanboy imho

 

 

If there are reliable charts it is reasonable to warn if there are inconsistencies that are not therefore based on "it seems to me"

 

 

Sorry for the outburst but for the last part. The flight model is not like armaments, radars, etc., the "enemy" knows the dimensions, characteristics, weight, etc., and through these is able to practice reverse engineering and know how an aircraft should behave in flight, so stop saying that because of a security issue they can't create a precise FM, if they can't, the reason is probably due to some technology that the "enemy" can't find with reverse engineering but not because you don't know the FM.

Edited October 4, 2019 by The Falcon

[luft]

... Delete this post, sorry

Edited October 4, 2019 by luft

[Krippz]

ED please do not rush to get weapons out of the door, please take the time to flesh out the avionics and the little details first. Please!

[CaptJodan]

I hesitate to post first impressions as there's so many dynamic factors involved, especially with an EA product. In no way is the product finished, so it's hard sometimes to tell what is intended and what is not intended, especially in FM.

 

I'm happy to have the EA access, though. I'm thrilled by how ED kept the actual release date hidden until they were sure they could hit it. They controlled the hype train well and avoided (as much as you can with the community) salt of a missed release date. And I lost less sleep being on the hype train by only obsessing about the F-16 for 2 days instead of 2 months of anticipation :thumbup:.

 

The issues about the aircraft's performance I'm confused about. I'm not at all a great pilot, and even the AI can cause me to struggle quite a bit in many planes, but testing both with AI last night and with another pilot in the F-18, I found I could easily slot in behind him and stay there when maintaining 300+ to 450ish knots. When he slowed down, I went up over the top to keep speed. There's a lot of factors to this, so I might have just gotten lucky, but I've been surprised by people talking about how its under-performing, especially since I'm such a crap pilot.

 

This isn't to say those observations are wrong. I don't know. They could well be right. I'm going to sit back and see how it all turns out by people more knowledgeable than I (SMEs and the like). There are quite a few things that feel weird or off, (roll rate or the stiffness of the controls in roll? Performance in full burner after dropping 12 Mk-82s?) but that could be how it is. But it's EA, so I expect some tweaks. Even the F-14 didn't come out of the box without tweaking the FM, and it was designed to be further along.

 

There's clearly a lot to be done left on the Viper. There's lots of known bugs. There are questions ("is this really how it is?") that I have. But I want to avoid kneejerk reactions. I want to understand the plane as it is now and try and get as close to doing what I'm supposed to do in the cockpit.

 

So my first impressions are: I'm thrilled to have it in my stable. I'm glad to have EA access. I look forward to the plane's continued development and learning more about it. I will have questions in the future, but for now I am happy to learn.

[Camino]

Had a total Blast flying the Viper today, thanks a lot ED for this awesome Module.

I find her very fast and agile, great Engine-Sound as well. Nice to go full Thrust into sharp turns.

Was surprised to see the different Ammo available for the 20mm. Cool!

[Kid18120]

and this thought ruins the immersion for me, i.e. I am no longer flying an accurate representation of the real thing, I am instead flying the "safe to know" version, yay how exciting -.-

 

You're always free to play Ace Combat games since based on the quoted statement bot that and DCS are on the same plane (which totally aren't).

 

You don't have a 100% super duper ultra accurate reproduction of the FM ?

You still have the best the market has to offer. You can't do anything about it other than anjoying what we have. Plus as 9L and Wags already sayd multiple times, we most likely would never be able to tell if the FM was just 80% of the real thing.

[Mezelf]

Man I'm looking forward to slowly learning the Viper with a drip feed of new features and improvements released over the next few years.

From a student standpoint it's so much better just sticking to the basics until they've been mastered before even touching advanced concepts such as laser-guided bombing, ground radar, TGP, etc.

My only criticism so far is the absence of a landing training mission. Start-up, taxi, take off... Fly forever??

 

 

In any case, great work ED!

[TheGuardian]

I have been really impressed with the module so far. It feels natural to fly it most of the time, at least till I screw something up on my end. I know a lot of stuff is missing, and there are aspects that are not correct to real life yet, but that is ok with me so far. It's going to be really fun to learn new systems to go along with the development of the plane.

[Airhunter]

Overall it's a solid EA release, gotta give that to ED. It is stable, has no gamebreaking bugs and the implemented system have basic functionality. Yes, lots of sounds and systems are placeholders and the external model is still WIP, as well as the damage model. But once that stuff gets added/finished together with some more liveries it'll be pretty solid already. I hope we'll see a quick turnaround time on those major items :D

 

great job, ED!

[David OC]

Yes, we have been having the same results.

 

Atm the F-14, -15, -18, Mirage, MiG-29 & Su-27 are all quite comfortably beating the F-16 in ACM in DCS. So something is obviously amiss, it's just about helping the devs to pinpoint from where the issue originates exactly.

 

Easy up Hummingbird, it's just been released.

 

Seems pretty zippy to me.....like it should, not done any numbers or fights online with the crew yet. Just playing around.

 

 

[Zad Fnark]

I'm happy with it so far. Did a bomb, rocket and strafe mission last night, without too much issues. Still need to get my stick/throttle fully set up.

 

 

I figure lots of the F-18's work will bleed over to the 16. (ground radar...). This seemed a natural next plane after the Hornet.

 

 

Funny, between the 18, A-10, Harrier and F-16, the MFDs all look similar but seem to operate differently.

 

 

Can't wait for a bunch of skins to come out.

Edited October 4, 2019 by Zad Fnark

[chaos]

Here’s my take on the Early Access Release of the F-16C.

 

I like to do a lot of flight testing and the majority of my sim-flying is spent doing just that. Thanks to ED for another module. I’m hoping that, in the months to come, this will continiously be improved upon. I’m looking forward to the implementation of the ground radar. I understand why it is somewhat lower on the priority list but not having it just makes the module unfinished.

 

The model is nice although, in my opinion, ED’s F-18C model is even better than this.

 

The aircraft handling is crisp and ‘feels’ a lot more like a fighter compared to the F-18. That is until you select the gear down. Rates are halved (or more?) and it behaves like an airliner. I don’t have anything to back up my claims but it ‘feels’ off. Turning short final and rolling out at 200’ is very dificult to do at best. It’s fine once you’re established on final but maneuvering in the pattern is just plain annoying.

 

I’ve done a few quick performance tests and the results closely reflect the data I have at home. Very impressive and kudos to the FM engineers for that. Acceleration, slow flying and turn performance seems to correspond nicely to my performance charts.

 

As an aside (Hummingbird). It should be ok for us to challenge and debate various aspects of the sim. I’d like to hear how Hummingbird determined why things are wrong. Getting beaten by AI isn’t exactly ‘proof’ that F-16’s perf. is off. Even getting smacked around by human opponents in a 1v1 dogfight isn’t proof either. Let us debate and back it up with ‘hard’ data.

 

To the coders/engineers and art department; thanks for creating this model! It’s Early Access and I see a lot of potential here.

Edited October 4, 2019 by chaos

[Digitalvole]

My take on the f-16:

Pre ordered the f16 and was very excited for its release, then...

Our 2nd daughter was released into early access (10 days early to be precise) by the “developer” on the 30th of Sept. As a result all I can say is of all the modules I own the f16 has involved the most nappy changes and the highest levels of fatigue ;)

I hope you guys and gals are all having a blast but I’m gonna have to wait a bit longer I suppose

[doedkoett]

Here’s my take on the Early Access Release of the F-16C.

The aircraft handling is crisp and ‘feels’ a lot more like a fighter compared to the F-18. That is until you select the gear down. Rates are halved (or more?) and it behaves like an airliner. I don’t have anything to back up my claims but it ‘feels’ off. Turning short final and rolling out at 200’ on short final is very dificult to do at best. It’s fine once you’re established on final but maneuvering in the pattern is just plain annoying.

 

I am sure a real Viper expert will correct me on this, but I believe the FCS has a landing-mode when the gears are out, which makes it less sensitive and more "airliner-like".

[A2597]

Hello, knowing that this Sim is in early access i will expose my first experience in this Viper.

Performances are pretty bad, Low acceleration ( weird) hi drag feeling. Rate of turn not as the PK graphics etc. Don't know why the aircraft is performing poorly comparing ti the FA-18c, when well known the big difference is the acceleration capability of Viper vs Hornet.

Nope, performances are not the Viper should have.

Go to the Viper's Dash-1 and you will see what i'm talking about.

Thxs, cheers.

 

 

 

 

I had two large fuel tanks and still found it made a clean Hornet feel like a slug...so, very different impression. Wondering if there's some other contributing factor?

[chaos]

I am sure a real Viper expert will correct me on this, but I believe the FCS has a landing-mode when the gears are out, which makes it less sensitive and more "airliner-like".

 

I believe you're right and that's not why I have an issue here. It's the handling (or lack thereof) that I find difficult. It's extremely sluggish... more so than I'd expect (although that isn't saying much :-) ).

Edited October 4, 2019 by chaos

[chaos]

I had two large fuel tanks and still found it made a clean Hornet feel like a slug...so, very different impression. Wondering if there's some other contributing factor?

 

I'm convinced that 9 times out of 10, it's the 'setup' that is lacking. I found that, after making sure all the conditions are correct (as stated in the manual), the F-16 performance closely matches the graphs. It's a real tribute to the engineers who coded this thing...

 

A difference of 5 degr. C is enough to get a performance delta as stated in the book. Why default weather in DCS is still 1013Hpa and 20C(?) is beyond me.

Edited October 4, 2019 by chaos

[chaos]

My take on the f-16:

Pre ordered the f16 and was very excited for its release, then...

Our 2nd daughter was released into early access (10 days early to be precise) by the “developer” on the 30th of Sept. As a result all I can say is of all the modules I own the f16 has involved the most nappy changes and the highest levels of fatigue ;)

I hope you guys and gals are all having a blast but I’m gonna have to wait a bit longer I suppose

 

Congratulations! Now this thing doesn't come with a manual. It's flying by the seat of your pants!

[Hummingbird]

Easy up Hummingbird, it's just been released.

 

Seems pretty zippy to me.....like it should, not done any numbers or fights online with the crew yet. Just playing around.

 

 

 

 

Like I said, I understand that it's EA and I expect changes to happen, and I'm definitely not complaining, I am simply reporting discrepancies.

 

I feel people really need to understand that just because you're highlightning errors it's not the same as complaining.

 

That said it's been identified that the F-16 fuel burn is much lower than it should be, so this could atleast be part of the reason that the other fighters are having such an easy time against it, i.e. that they are getting lighter much faster than it.

[doedkoett]

I believe you're right and that's not the issue here. It's the handling (or lack thereof) that I find difficult. It's extremely sluggish... more so than I'd expect (although that isn't saying much :-) ).

 

The only real simulators I have flown are C-130 Hercules and JAS 39C and E Gripen, and the latter two did absolutely not behave like the former when the gears were out :laugh:, neither did the DCS Viper. Actually, to be honest, I didn´t notice any difference even though I knew there should be one. But I only popped out the gear when I was on finals when I flew yesterday, so I never had to do any violent turns.

 

So I can´t really say if you´re wrong or right.

[Hummingbird]

I can not believe that there are people who do not accept right observations and dispute with phrases like: you are criticizing! you are not grateful to the ED! etc .. this is called being fanboy imho

 

 

If there are reliable charts it is reasonable to warn if there are inconsistencies that are not therefore based on "it seems to me"

 

 

Sorry for the outburst but for the last part. The flight model is not like armaments, radars, etc., the "enemy" knows the dimensions, characteristics, weight, etc., and through these is able to practice reverse engineering and know how an aircraft should behave in flight, so stop saying that because of a security issue they can't create a precise FM, if they can't, the reason is probably due to some technology that the "enemy" can't find with reverse engineering but not because you don't know the FM.

 

Thank you for actually taking the time to read the posts and understanding what it is all about. I'm baffled by how little people try to actually understand or even care read through the entirety of ones post before responding.

[Canadus]

Congratulations! Now this thing doesn't come with a manual. It's flying by the seat of your pants!

 

Oh yes & even after some years it will still surprise you and will drive you crazy. You definitely have to stay on your toes. :D

 

Congratz. :thumbup:

[GPatricks]

Congratulations! Now this thing doesn't come with a manual. It's flying by the seat of your pants!

 

There is an early draft manual here - https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.c...cess_guide_en/, wish there was a KB Layout! Having a hard time (CH HOTAS) finding Radar Range keys and a key for Dogfight mode..

[vu733gt]

Like I said, I understand that it's EA and I expect changes to happen, and I'm definitely not complaining, I am simply reporting discrepancies.

 

I feel people really need to understand that just because you're highlightning errors it's not the same as complaining.

 

That said it's been identified that the F-16 fuel burn is much lower than it should be, so this could atleast be part of the reason that the other fighters are having such an easy time against it, i.e. that they are getting lighter much faster than it.

 

 

 

 

There is a bug section for this matter where you can describe everything, provide all data, tracks and your whole analysis. It is much more helpful for them, than posting multiple posts here..

 

 

My first impressions are great! Thank you ED, wags for your hard work and dedication to release F16 for all of us into early access.

[Digitalvole]

@chaos & Canadus, thanks chaps. We already have one in the hanger (she’s just started school and is an absolute star.) That being said it’s a different FM every time or so I hear ;) the seat of my pants (and trousers for that matter) will be thoroughly worn out in no time I’m sure.

Also thank you ED for such a fantastic sim, my joint first loves (family not included) are DCS and Warhammer 40k. They are both time intensive hobbies so I’m crap at both but when I get to pop my rift s on my noggin I get to escape into a virtual heaven. Thanks for that Wags & Co

 

Edit. I’ve escaped for an hour so I’m in the pub reading the f16 manual

Edited October 4, 2019 by Digitalvole